I think I know the answer to this one already, but I have signed up for a couple of agencies in South Wales, looking for ad-hoc weekend work. One of them (Swift Recruitment) has text me to let me know that a company called NumberMill will be in contact to confirm my payroll details and get me set up.
I’ve since had a chat with NumberMill and they have sent me an e-mail which has set a few alarm bells ringing.
I’m not at all familiar with agency work, but they are kindly offering to take an administration cost each week I work.
Are there any benefits to working with one of these umbrella companies?
As I’m only looking to drive for a bit of experience before my Class 1 test in January and am not desperate for the money, I think I will pass up on their kind offer, but wanted to check to see if this is the norm for agencies?
Goff118:
wanted to check to see if this is the norm for agencies?
I’ve been on agency most of the last 26 years, always been PAYE direct with the agency, no Ltd, no Umbrella. There’s no advantage to umbrella and there’s a lot of people who have ended up with tax bills when they’ve not paid the tax or they’ve applied expenses to reduce your tax that weren’t allowed.
If you do do umbrella it needs to be at least 30% above the PAYE rates due to all the stuff an employer would have to pay that come out of the money the agency pay you on umbrella to leave you in the same position as going directly PAYE.
But you’re getting paid to get some experience , by the sound of it your not paying the bills with the money you earn so why not just do a bit until you feel comfortable driving
If there taking a £1 out of £20 ph would it really matter if your getting the experience you need , if there paying you £10 & deducting £5 I could see your point I guess
As for names of people who pay you , I never had a phone call from anyone , but I did have a different name against my wages on a regular basis and I was supposedly paye
NB im not having a dig at the other replies , but remember they don’t need experience , you do by the sound of it , get the experience then do what you want
learn whilst being paid
these umbrella paymets are a con pure and simple. the agencys wont deal with them if you have an issue they are seperate on paperand good luck tracing the umbrella company or sorting out any issues which you will have plenty. I have never once managed to get them to explain my paycheck to me although they all swear black is white that your better off.
Before i stated where i am currently i was told i ended up on umbrella so i could be paid for 2 weeks the agency then refunded me 95 quid that i had been over charged because i was told i would be paye and then after i had worked for them told mei had to be umbrella.
I have done non driving work with agencies, through umbrella scheme.
Whilst I had no deductions for payroll processing (although many do), it does bring up other problems.
The main payroll company, will sub-contract out your employment to yet another company (the umbrella) and this other ‘company’ will technically be your new ‘employer’ and issue a contract of employment. This ‘company’ which is normally ‘owned’ by foreign nationals, will change every few weeeks and you will find your tax coding will keep constantly changing as a result of this.
If a problem arises regarding pay, the agency will just refer you to the payroll company, who depending on their quality, may or may not sort it out for you. The bigger problem arises if you have an incident whilst in the workplace. Remember your ‘employer’ is the umbrella company which changes every few weeks. It is purely a paper company and if something hits the fan, or someone tries to claim or take legal action, the company is quickly shut down and ceases to exist. You as the ‘employee’ are left without any support whatsoever.
Many agencies out there now ONLY offer umbrella payments, as it takes away all legal responsibilities from them and many tax responsibilities too. My personal advice from prior experience is to stick with PAYE wherever possible.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Many agencies out there now ONLY offer umbrella payments, as it takes away all legal responsibilities from them and many tax responsibilities too. My personal advice from prior experience is to stick with PAYE wherever possible.
Perhaps…
This might be a way to distinguish the better agencies from the bottom feeders? An agency that insists you use a brolly company isn’t worth investigating any further as far as I’m concerned. They prey on the less knowledgeable amongst us and ‘hard sell’ them the deal, knowing full well it doesn’t have the drivers best interests at heart.
Both agencies I work for, stopped the umbrella schemes some years ago and only work to PAYE practices.
When Ltd finished staffline pushed using this firm, but after advice they dropped them. There is no point using umbrella companies, you won’t be better off just leave yourself at risk from HMRC.
I in the past used various schemes to reduce tax, but now HMRC is getting there teeth into these schemes, I now steering well clear of these.
If agency won’t go PAYE go else where. There is more work than drivers at the moment so be picky.
Thanks for the advice guys, it’s much appreciated.
So just to be clear, for proper PAYE, would the employer on the payslip need to be the agency, or the direct company you are doing work for?
Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I’ve not worked for an agency since a Christmas job at Royal Mail in 2008, and they didn’t pay me for 2 months then!
Goff118:
Thanks for the advice guys, it’s much appreciated.
So just to be clear, for proper PAYE, would the employer on the payslip need to be the agency, or the direct company you are doing work for?
Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I’ve not worked for an agency since a Christmas job at Royal Mail in 2008, and they didn’t pay me for 2 months then!
You would be employed by the agency so they should be the company name on the payslip. If is says another name then it’s likely a umbrella type PAYE scam.
Goff118:
Thanks for the advice guys, it’s much appreciated.
So just to be clear, for proper PAYE, would the employer on the payslip need to be the agency, or the direct company you are doing work for?
Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I’ve not worked for an agency since a Christmas job at Royal Mail in 2008, and they didn’t pay me for 2 months then!
It would be the agency, not the actual company that you are working at.
Some excellent advice on this thread & we can do a lot to stop this situation.
My partner works through agencies in a different sector. She prefers short term contracts therefore she uses a lot of different agencies.
Many of them are now paying as PAYE but through umbrella companies, showing it is not just our industry doing this.
The first question she now asks about any assignment offer is: “Will I be paid PAYE directly by your company?”. If the answer is no or vague she declines the offer whilst explaining why.
The contracting out of payroll has no benefit to the employee. All the benefits go to the employer & payroll company.
Now we have a choice of who we provide our labour to I encourage all to reject outright those agencies who won’t pay PAYE direct.
If we tolerate this poor practice now, there will be no choice in future as there are genuine benefits for the employer.
If only there was some sort of way we could, as a society, stop these people parassiting off workers?
If we could organise a way to stop this?
.
Y’know like a group of people we could call a “Government”? Making things we could call “laws” or summat?
.
The biggest racket run by Umbrella firms - is that they’ll effectively give you an 8, 10, or 12 hour contract rather than a zero hour one.
If you don’tget any work at all - you don’t earn a wage to take their weekly commission out of - do you?
…Thus, they’ll bend over backwards to give you at very least the one token shift every week, even if it is pushing a broom around somewhere, 'cos there’s no driving jobs in fact…
That’s the main ‘upside’ to umbrella… The rest is downhill all the way…
The biggest risk you take - is that they’ll deduct taxes and stockpile them on your behalf…
…But if that agency goes under before the end of that financial year, you’ll have to pay the same amount of tax all over again, as “Umbrella agency” - never got around to handing over the cash they’d already deducted from your pay each and every week as “pretend PAYE”, leaving HMRC chasing you for not paying the taxes you’d thought you’d already paid, but got fobbed off about it using the old “Pseudo” PAYE argument.
Now that we drivers are not allowed to claim expenses any longer, plus the other bits of the IR35 crackdown - leaves you absolutely no reason to tolerate being on umbrella under ANY circumstances.
Job Adverts are even saying now
“This job is PAYE only - No self-employed opening here - Sorry”.
"Worker applications only - strictly NO third party applications".
…which personally, I see as a GOOD thing for the industry workforce.
