Norway’s PM not sure UK should copy it’s approach to EU
I thought the latest comparison we were going for was Albania?
I’m Pro the EU remaining in Europe.
That way Britain can stay off-shore where it belongs, and everyone’s happy. 
Winseer:
I’m Pro the EU remaining in Europe.That way Britain can stay off-shore where it belongs, and everyone’s happy.
Contrary to what the desperate in campaigners would like to think that isn’t Norway telling us to stay in.It’s actually Norway telling us that they are being stitched up by the EU in the form of typical EU economic blackmail.IE it’s a warning not to let the EU do the same to us if/when we leave.In which case my reply would be don’t worry we won’t.But what we will do is put EFTA back in a much stronger bargaining position v the EU.Thereby stopping the EU’s blatant attempts to interfere in the dometic affairs of foreign sovereign countries.IE the EU isn’t going to instigate a trade war with a net importer of its products. 
“IE the EU isn’t going to instigate a trade war with a net importer of its products. ”
Why not, I think , they actually will.
They have instigated a trade war with Russia, a serious net importer of it’s good, which has over double the population of the UK, and is much more important trading partner than the UK, as thet’s where all the oil is being imported from, at cheapest prices, why wouldn’t they do the same to the UK?
By doing nothing and making it easy for the UK to just leave they would be encouraging other countries to do the same, which would be causing a lot of chaos, for years if not decades to come, why would EU in their right mind allow it to happen?
I reckon if the UK leaves EU is going to make an example out of us, on what would happen to any other country thinking of leaving, they will make our lives like hell, to make sure no other country thinks of leaving.
By leaving the EU, we are simply confirming the following:
- We have realised we have less and less to say in the EU, we have lost again to Germany, as they have taken over our market share in about any valuable industry there is.
- We produce nothing of value, germans do it all better
- We might have beatn germans in a war ( well, lets be honest we didn’t really, it was all others coming to our help that did it, we lost to germans and japanese in Asia, and if the old good US of A did not come with their mighty army to help we would have been speaking german by now)
- Germans, French and all other countries leave and work by the same rules, regulations, only the poor UK can not cope and wants out.
- Every possible serious organization, country, leader in the world advises us to stay in the EU, for our own good, only Putin is supporting us leaving, and we obviously, as you would expect side with Putin and not with other world leaders, and all our allies.
We are going to be made an example of not to do, by every country that we will be trying to renegotiate trade deals after we leave the EU, the USA, EU.
Thanks to the EU our employers have to follow civilised work agreements, and we get 4 weeks of holidays a year and have to follow the tachograph rules and regulations, when we leave it’s going to be back to the wild west, so forget your 48 hrs a week average.
EU isn’t perfect, many things need to be improved, but only by being in the EU and working with other countries we can change anything, outside of the EU we will have to follow their rules and regulations , having no say in how they are constructed and implemented.
Can’t believe some of us so stupid and so short sighted.
internetfan:
“IE the EU isn’t going to instigate a trade war with a net importer of its products.Why not, I think , they actually will.
They have instigated a trade war with Russia, a serious net importer of it’s good, which has over double the population of the UK, and is much more important trading partner than the UK, as thet’s where all the oil is being imported from, at cheapest prices, why wouldn’t they do the same to the UK?
By doing nothing and making it easy for the UK to just leave they would be encouraging other countries to do the same, which would be causing a lot of chaos, for years if not decades to come, why would EU in their right mind allow it to happen?
I reckon if the UK leaves EU is going to make an example out of us, on what would happen to any other country thinking of leaving, they will make our lives like hell, to make sure no other country thinks of leaving.
By leaving the EU, we are simply confirming the following:
- We have realised we have less and less to say in the EU, we have lost again to Germany, as they have taken over our market share in about any valuable industry there is.
- We produce nothing of value, germans do it all better
- We might have beatn germans in a war ( well, lets be honest we didn’t really, it was all others coming to our help that did it, we lost to germans and japanese in Asia, and if the old good US of A did not come with their mighty army to help we would have been speaking german by now)
- Germans, French and all other countries leave and work by the same rules, regulations, only the poor UK can not cope and wants out.
- Every possible serious organization, country, leader in the world advises us to stay in the EU, for our own good, only Putin is supporting us leaving, and we obviously, as you would expect side with Putin and not with other world leaders, and all our allies.
We are going to be made an example of not to do, by every country that we will be trying to renegotiate trade deals after we leave the EU, the USA, EU.
Thanks to the EU our employers have to follow civilised work agreements, and we get 4 weeks of holidays a year and have to follow the tachograph rules and regulations, when we leave it’s going to be back to the wild west, so forget your 48 hrs a week average.
EU isn’t perfect, many things need to be improved, but only by being in the EU and working with other countries we can change anything, outside of the EU we will have to follow their rules and regulations , having no say in how they are constructed and implemented.Can’t believe some of us so stupid and so short sighted.
If I’ve read it right you’re supporting the idea of ‘making an example’ out of anyone who dares to secede from the zb EU federation,by ‘making their lives hell’.Great that’s a good basis for a trading relationship or in fact any international relationship.
As for Russia who gives a zb.But ironically the Germans have actually already been grovelling to get the EU trade sanctions against Russia lifted because of the damage that counter sanctions are causing to German export trade with Russia.Although feel free to kick off a war with Russia over moving the EU into Ukraine.Just don’t expect anyone with any sense to help you.
As for us producing nothing of value.More like not allowed to produce anything of value because the Germans and their financial backers want Germany to be top dog.
As for being thankful to the EU’s so called workers rights.You mean like British workers either having to compete against East European wage levels meaning transfer of industry.Or free movement and resulting economic migration of cheap East Euro labour to do what jobs we’ve got left.Thereby adding to the labour supply of an already saturated labour market and as a result depressing wage rates and reducing taxation revenues,while adding to demand for housing and social and health care provision.
Although don’t be discouraged from keeping on with the increasingly desperate pro EU bs because it’s doing wonders for the out campaign side of the argument. 
internetfan:
“IE the EU isn’t going to instigate a trade war with a net importer of its products.Why not, I think , they actually will.
They have instigated a trade war with Russia, a serious net importer of it’s good, which has over double the population of the UK, and is much more important trading partner than the UK
The UKs economy is far richer than Russia. Russias GDP for all the people it has is less than half that of the UK at $1300trillion compared to the UK’s $2800trillion. So no, Russia is not a more important trading partner.
The Russians were the deciding factor in winning WW2, not the Americans. Germany gave up trying to invade us when we defeated the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain and destroyed its entire naval surface fleet with anything left having to hide in Norwegian FFyords and all of this was done before the US got involved and in fact at a time where the US had decided Germany would walk straight in and we were a lost cause. The US only got involved with us once we’d proven we couldn’t be invaded. All those people who came to help were actually part of the British Empire so, other than Australia, kind of had no choice.
The Germans and French and everyone else do not even come anywhere close to living by the same rules, just look at the Greeks for example, but thanks for demonstrating you’ve never actually left the UK or if you have you spent your time sat in a hotel in Spain.
We are going to be made an example of not to do, by every country that we will be trying to renegotiate trade deals after we leave the EU, the USA, EU.
Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty bans it - do you know what Article 50 is or would you like me to explain it to you? World Trade Organisation rules ban punitive import tariffs. You still ignore the fact we’re the worlds fifth richest economy, the worlds fifth largest manufacturer, the worlds fifth most powerful military.
Your knowledge of history, EU politics etc is astoundingly bad and unfortunately its going to be ignoramouses like you who will get to vote on the future of this country. Personally I think there should be an exam people should take before being given a voting slip for an issue as important as this.
Thanks to the EU our employers have to follow civilised work agreements, and we get 4 weeks of holidays a year and have to follow the tachograph rules and regulations, when we leave it’s going to be back to the wild west, so forget your 48 hrs a week average.
Wow, so much ignorance. We already had paid holidays. I got 4 weeks statutory paid holiday in the mid 80s when I first started working. In fact our statutory paid holidays met the current 2016 EU minimum requirement over THREE DECADES before the EU WTD and the 4 week statutory holidays came into being. UK statutory holidays are 5.6 weeks which EXCEED the EU minimum requirement. THE UNITED KINGDOM HAS HAD MANDATORY PAID HOLIDAYS FOR OVER 100 YEARS BEFORE WE JOINED THE EU, since 1871 in fact.
As for tachographs, thanks to EU drivers hours rules you can now work 15hrs a day or work 21 out of every 30 hours if double manned and work 84hrs a week. Before the EU drivers hours rules we had the GB domestic rules which limited us to an 11hr spreadover as it required a 13hr daily rest. We were actually BETTER OFF under GB domestic rules than EU drivers hours rules. There is no 48hrs average because it doesn’t include driving breaks or PoA. We have also had restrictions on working hours for over 100 years before we joined the EU.
What is next that you’re going to claim the EU has done for us, consumer rights? Nope - Sale of Goods Act precedes us signing Maastricht and we didn’t implement EU Directive 1999/44/EC because SOGA exceeds it. Health and Safety at Work? Same story. I could go on.
Conor, you really are a sanctimonious, arrogant prick.
Would it be too much trouble for you to just point out why you think internetfan is wrong? Were all the petty insults REALLY needed? Maybe if you could stop acting like you’re the only voice of intelligence you’d accept other people have opinions as well. But why break the habit of a lifetime eh?
And for whats its worth, internetfan has a point regards the EU if we leave. If you think they are going to wave us off with a “Take care, we wish you all the best” and let a silly little thing like the rule book stop them getting their own back on us then you’re the one living in a fantasy world.
I’ll vote based on how I see fit and what I decide I think is best and in the best interests of the UK, as will internetfan and everyone else who is allowed to vote. Everyone is entitle to their opinions regarding in/out but unfortunately there are people like you who feel they have a right to chuck insults and arrogance at anyone who dares to voice reasons for staying.
The-Snowman:
Conor, you really are a sanctimonious, arrogant prick.
Would it be too much trouble for you to just point out why you think internetfan is wrong? Were all the petty insults REALLY needed? Maybe if you could stop acting like you’re the only voice of intelligence you’d accept other people have opinions as well. But why break the habit of a lifetime eh?
In the absence of any intelligent arguments the in campaign throws its toys out of the pram again.
Although to be fair.Stalin would have found it ‘a bit’ more difficult ‘if’ we’d have lost the Battle of Britain by relying on Polish imported aircraft because British workers weren’t considered good enough or cheap enough. That’s assuming Rommel,obviously in that case not needing to go to North Africa,didn’t blow up Hitler before the zbwit had chance to invade Russia.
Carryfast:
In the absence of any intelligent arguments the in campaign throws its toys out of the pram again.
Im not part of the IN or OUT “campaign”. I havnt fully decided yet how im going to vote. I just dont think theres any need for Conors attitude and whether your for in or out, respecting everyone elses opinion is part of living in a democracy.
A quick question, which can be answered with a fairly quick reply:
If we leave the EU, what do you think will be the real-world outcome for both the average Brit, and the British economy and society as a whole? Not what should happen, what will happen?
scaniason:
A quick question, which can be answered with a fairly quick reply:If we leave the EU, what do you think will be the real-world outcome for both the average Brit, and the British economy and society as a whole? Not what should happen, what will happen?
It’s more important what definitely won’t happen.
In that we won’t continue to be subjected to what was always a Federal government system that makes us nothing more than a subservient state of a federal Europe ruled by federal majority vote by people that we can’t vote out.Nor will we any longer need to give a zb what Merkel or Junker among other numerous Socialist zbwits want or say.Nor will we be condemning future generations of Brits to being ‘made an example of’ by having their lives ‘made hell’ for wanting their country back.
While EFTA is still there waiting for us to get back to just as we were before 1973.IE no economic disaster then or now for its members and still to this day not a bad place to be. 
I’ve just done some reading up on EFTA - what do you see as the main advantages of it over the EU? It seems that EFTA and the EU have right to live and work in each others countries, so that seems to defeat the main thrust of most people’s arguments - you’d still have EU people over here working. They also seem to have adopted a goodly chunk of EU legislation, and are also a member of the schengen zone - would this not put us effectively deeper in the EU, with less travel restrictions than we currently have?
Lets just take a look at the OUT campaign latest propaganda:
“We are a great trading nation, we are going to be just fine negotiating out own trade deals and trading freely with all nations around the globe”
Lets get back to earth now.
We are not living anymore in 19th century, we are no longer great maritime power and don’t have our own colonies around the world where we can dictate what they buy and from whom they buy as it used to be in the good old days.
Since Boris and his mates want us to again become a great trading nation, he obviously knows what we are going to be trading, selling, producing, or doesn’t he?
For those who have a clue what we are talking here about, I have bad news, we have manage to build a gaping 7% current account deficit.
Yes, 7%, why? because we have not much to offer our trading partners, we don’t produce much that others can’t make by themselves and probably cheaper, plus, we have lack of capital that could be invested in our own infrastructure, hence we need to make our best, make friends with chinese and convince them to come to the UK to invest their money.
If these investment opportunities were so good, and they probably are, some of them guaranteed by the government, such as the proposed new nuclear power plants, we shouldn’t need to ■■■■ chinese deeks traying to nconvice them to come to us to spend their money, we should be having the money to do it ourselves, but the money has been lost, gone, germans despite loosing both wars have plenty of cash, don’t need chinese investment, they can develop things by themselves, and us despite rulling the half the world for a few centuries, need to beg chinese to come over and spend some money, pathetic.
Lets now move fast forward to 23rd June, yes, the vote has been decided, the out campaign has won, and a few days later Boris as a new prime minister sends his envoys to Brussels to negotiate new trade deal.
Guess what he gets.
Nothing, tariffs probably will get incrised untill the new trade deal will get negotiated
and now, why would an economic block ruch with such a deal ?
No point, germans, french , italians, spanish, austrians, will take their time, they might even leave things as they are most some time to come until current deals expire and then slowly start taking over british companies contracts, because as I said earlier we do not produce anything that other countries couldn’t produce.
Now, Boris sends his mates to the US to negotiate new trade deal, and what he gets:
"Boris, mate, you want what?
Negotiate a new trade deal?
What did Barack told you last time he was in London?
Don’t leave the EU, we need to you there to keep others in check,now you’ve let us down, and what do you expect a new, better trade deal?
Forget it, now, to the back of the que, wait for your turn, we are now negotiating with EU, a 350 milion market, why would we want to bother with you, especially you have let us down, and that’s after us helping you in the last world wars.
Back to the que.
We are expecting to finish our negotiations with the EU sometime in 20 25, we have others waiting, your turn might come by the end of the century, and don’t expect any better conditions.
We are good at scoring our own goals, aren’t we?
IMF delivers “tough love” to UK on Brexit vote
cnbc.com/2016/05/13/imf-deli … -vote.html
…but, Boris, Gove and Putin said leaving would be good, so it must be good.
scaniason:
I’ve just done some reading up on EFTA - what do you see as the main advantages of it over the EU? It seems that EFTA and the EU have right to live and work in each others countries, so that seems to defeat the main thrust of most people’s arguments - you’d still have EU people over here working. They also seem to have adopted a goodly chunk of EU legislation, and are also a member of the schengen zone - would this not put us effectively deeper in the EU, with less travel restrictions than we currently have?
That’s nothing to do with EFTA.That’s all about membership of the EEAA or other bilateral ‘agreements’ as in the case of Switzerland, which effectively means submitting to EU economic blackmail because unlike us they aren’t in a position of massive trade deficit strength v the EU.
There’s no rule regards free movement within EFTA membership conditions nor in it’s trading relationship with the EU.Which would obviously be in a far better position in that regard with us back in it and out the EU.As for the main benefit of EFTA v EU it means no loss of sovereignty and no massive contributions for the privilege of being a net importer of EU products.
internetfan:
Lets just take a look at the OUT campaign latest propaganda:
“We are a great trading nation, we are going to be just fine negotiating out own trade deals and trading freely with all nations around the globe”Lets get back to earth now.
We are not living anymore in 19th century, we are no longer great maritime power and don’t have our own colonies around the world where we can dictate what they buy and from whom they buy as it used to be in the good old days.
Since Boris and his mates want us to again become a great trading nation, he obviously knows what we are going to be trading, selling, producing, or doesn’t he?
For those who have a clue what we are talking here about, I have bad news, we have manage to build a gaping 7% current account deficit.
Yes, 7%, why? because we have not much to offer our trading partners, we don’t produce much that others can’t make by themselves and probably cheaper, plus, we have lack of capital that could be invested in our own infrastructure, hence we need to make our best, make friends with chinese and convince them to come to the UK to invest their money.
If these investment opportunities were so good, and they probably are, some of them guaranteed by the government, such as the proposed new nuclear power plants, we shouldn’t need to ■■■■ chinese deeks traying to nconvice them to come to us to spend their money, we should be having the money to do it ourselves, but the money has been lost, gone, germans despite loosing both wars have plenty of cash, don’t need chinese investment, they can develop things by themselves, and us despite rulling the half the world for a few centuries, need to beg chinese to come over and spend some money, pathetic.Lets now move fast forward to 23rd June, yes, the vote has been decided, the out campaign has won, and a few days later Boris as a new prime minister sends his envoys to Brussels to negotiate new trade deal.
Guess what he gets.
Nothing, tariffs probably will get incrised untill the new trade deal will get negotiated
and now, why would an economic block ruch with such a deal ?
No point, germans, french , italians, spanish, austrians, will take their time, they might even leave things as they are most some time to come until current deals expire and then slowly start taking over british companies contracts, because as I said earlier we do not produce anything that other countries couldn’t produce.Now, Boris sends his mates to the US to negotiate new trade deal, and what he gets:
"Boris, mate, you want what?
Negotiate a new trade deal?
What did Barack told you last time he was in London?
Don’t leave the EU, we need to you there to keep others in check,now you’ve let us down, and what do you expect a new, better trade deal?
Forget it, now, to the back of the que, wait for your turn, we are now negotiating with EU, a 350 milion market, why would we want to bother with you, especially you have let us down, and that’s after us helping you in the last world wars.
Back to the que.
We are expecting to finish our negotiations with the EU sometime in 20 25, we have others waiting, your turn might come by the end of the century, and don’t expect any better conditions.We are good at scoring our own goals, aren’t we?
And you think the way to fix all that is to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU especially Germany and paying the EU billions in net contributions.All paid for with borrowed money that has to be paid back.That worked well for Greece,even without the added burden of the net contributions, for the privilege of being shafted by zb Germany and its stasi infiltrator ruler.In which case great the EU hits us with tarrifs we hit them with higher ones.Trust me zb Germany will blink first.With the win win of British jobs for British workers not German ones to make up for the lost imports.
While for someone who’s supposedly speaking for the country your English seems a bit dodgy to me.
Carryfast:
internetfan:
Lets just take a look at the OUT campaign latest propaganda:
“We are a great trading nation, we are going to be just fine negotiating out own trade deals and trading freely with all nations around the globe”Lets get back to earth now.
We are not living anymore in 19th century, we are no longer great maritime power and don’t have our own colonies around the world where we can dictate what they buy and from whom they buy as it used to be in the good old days.
Since Boris and his mates want us to again become a great trading nation, he obviously knows what we are going to be trading, selling, producing, or doesn’t he?
For those who have a clue what we are talking here about, I have bad news, we have manage to build a gaping 7% current account deficit.
Yes, 7%, why? because we have not much to offer our trading partners, we don’t produce much that others can’t make by themselves and probably cheaper, plus, we have lack of capital that could be invested in our own infrastructure, hence we need to make our best, make friends with chinese and convince them to come to the UK to invest their money.
If these investment opportunities were so good, and they probably are, some of them guaranteed by the government, such as the proposed new nuclear power plants, we shouldn’t need to ■■■■ chinese deeks traying to nconvice them to come to us to spend their money, we should be having the money to do it ourselves, but the money has been lost, gone, germans despite loosing both wars have plenty of cash, don’t need chinese investment, they can develop things by themselves, and us despite rulling the half the world for a few centuries, need to beg chinese to come over and spend some money, pathetic.Lets now move fast forward to 23rd June, yes, the vote has been decided, the out campaign has won, and a few days later Boris as a new prime minister sends his envoys to Brussels to negotiate new trade deal.
Guess what he gets.
Nothing, tariffs probably will get incrised untill the new trade deal will get negotiated
and now, why would an economic block ruch with such a deal ?
No point, germans, french , italians, spanish, austrians, will take their time, they might even leave things as they are most some time to come until current deals expire and then slowly start taking over british companies contracts, because as I said earlier we do not produce anything that other countries couldn’t produce.Now, Boris sends his mates to the US to negotiate new trade deal, and what he gets:
"Boris, mate, you want what?
Negotiate a new trade deal?
What did Barack told you last time he was in London?
Don’t leave the EU, we need to you there to keep others in check,now you’ve let us down, and what do you expect a new, better trade deal?
Forget it, now, to the back of the que, wait for your turn, we are now negotiating with EU, a 350 milion market, why would we want to bother with you, especially you have let us down, and that’s after us helping you in the last world wars.
Back to the que.
We are expecting to finish our negotiations with the EU sometime in 20 25, we have others waiting, your turn might come by the end of the century, and don’t expect any better conditions.We are good at scoring our own goals, aren’t we?
And you think the way to fix all that is to go on trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit with the EU especially Germany and paying the EU billions in net contributions.All paid for with borrowed money that has to be paid back.That worked well for Greece,even without the added burden of the net contributions, for the privilege of being shafted by zb Germany and its stasi infiltrator ruler.In which case great the EU hits us with tarrifs we hit them with higher ones.Trust me zb Germany will blink first.With the win win of British jobs for British workers not German ones to make up for the lost imports.
While for someone who’s supposedly speaking for the country your English seems a bit dodgy to me.
For what its worth I don’t think we will have to worry about what the EU will do if we vote to leave. We are one of the highest net contributors to the budget, once we go the others won’t be happy making the difference up. There 2 years to sort once we vote to leave but by then there may not be an EU.
Denmark has a vocal minority that is campaining to leave. There are voices in France and even Germany (thanks Merkel) that want to leave.
For those who follow the news Greece is in trouble again. They will default in July unless another deal will be done. Even if it does it will only kick it down the road another 6-12 months. Italy is also struggling and another 12-18 months and they will be asking for some cash. France is ok for the minute but they are heading down. They might have 2-3 years if they don’t change direction soon, thats assuming that Le Penn doesn’t get in and take France out of the EU anyway
kcrussell25:
thats assuming that Le Penn doesn’t get in and take France out of the EU anyway
^ That’s what is terrifying the Germans and its bankers on the basis that if we leave Hollande is probably toast.Leaving Germany as the head of a basket case economic grouping made up of mostly Eastern Europe,Greece,Italy and Spain.In which EFTA overnight becomes the dominant relevant economic group headed by us if we’ve got any sense thereby reducing the dominance of Germany in Europe.While the potential economic fallout in Eastern Europe in that case will be perceived as probably wrecking America’s geopolitical aims in the region.Which explains the desperation being shown by all the interested parties in getting the result they want.
Carryfast:
kcrussell25:
thats assuming that Le Penn doesn’t get in and take France out of the EU anyway^ That’s what is terrifying the Germans and its bankers on the basis that if we leave Hollande is probably toast.Leaving Germany as the head of a basket case economic grouping made up of mostly Eastern Europe,Greece,Italy and Spain.In which EFTA overnight becomes the dominant relevant economic group headed by us if we’ve got any sense thereby reducing the dominance of Germany in Europe.
Hollande is gone anyway I think. If not Le Penn it will be Sarkosy by people voting tactically to keep Le Penn out. I read a while back that the best thing for the euro would be Germany leaving. I think it was right. They are to different to the other countries to share a currency. If they had still had the Mark they would not have grown the way they have as the Mark would have appreciated and the exports would have been more expensive hurting their growth. Everyone says how good they are, yes but they have benefited from the exchange any interdependent country’s currency would never have grown that way. Also I have a friend who married and moved out there and she has said even in her 10 years there “German efficiency” is rapidly going down hill