att:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcWHBPYOSU&feature=player_embedded
the ■■■■ party, or ESM? crazy [zb].
limeyphil:
the ■■■■ party,
Or to put it another way the whole thing is just a run by a load of zb German parasites just as if the zb’s had won WW2.So much for Cameron’s ‘Veto’.When what he ‘would’ have said,if he’s really in it for the national interest,is zb em we’re out of here.But that would have needed Farage to be PM not that tory zb Cameron and his commie mate Clegg.
orys:
Happy Keith:
orys:
‘… poor Poland is asked for about the same amount as rich Sweden …’Aah, but which of these two Euro states does Britain send millions of ££’s in ‘Child benefit’ claims
I doubt if ‘…poor Poland…’ is as ‘…poor…’ as some might wish us to imagine
Oh, I am perfectly sure that you are in doubt about everything when it comes to Poland and not support your theories
As for Child Benefit - to none. Britain is not sending money abroad. They pay child benefits to workers working in Britain who have kids, and it is not important if they are Polish and have kids in Poland living with their mum, or German and have kids in Germany living with their aunt, or British and have kids in Spain, living with their grandparents. You are British worker and British taxpayer, you have some duties to fullfill and you have some rights you can claim. It is as simply as that.
Really.So in your view taking Polish workers off the Polish dole and putting them to work here,so they can claim British child benefit,to send home to Poland,isn’t the same thing as Britain paying for Poland’s benefits that Poland should be paying it’s own workers instead.We lose out under that idea because British money earned in Britain ends up in the Polish economy not the British one so we never see it again which shows up as a loss in the UK economy and a gain in the Polish one.Which means that we’re effectively giving pounds sterling to the Poles that we should be keeping here to be spent and ploughed back into the British economy.
The fact is there aren’t many/any redundant bombardier train workers who will be offered first refusal to take up their jobs in Germany and to send all their German benefits,as German workers,back here to Britain so as usual the ‘free labour market’ is more of a liability to us than an asset and costs us more than it’s worth.Unless you’re an employer who’s effectively just getting his profits subsidised by cheap east european labour and the British social security system that’s subsidising the cost of raising children in Poland and providing even more money to help the growth of the Polish economy at the expense of our own.
Carryfast:
Really.So in your view taking Polish workers off the Polish dole and putting them to work here,so they can claim British child benefit,to send home to Poland,isn’t the same thing as Britain paying for Poland’s benefits that Poland should be paying it’s own workers instead.We lose out under that idea because British money earned in Britain ends up in the Polish economy not the British one so we never see it again which shows up as a loss in the UK economy and a gain in the Polish one.Which means that we’re effectively giving pounds sterling to the Poles that we should be keeping here to be spent and ploughed back into the British economy.
We’ve been through that before.
But since you put it that way: actually it is better for UK economy, as if its Polish worker who has family in Poland, he claims his benefit and sends it to Poland where kids are sitting with their grandparents.
While at the same time British parent claims his benefit, then demands from the state free education, free school buses, free medical care and all these other costs generated by the families you so like to point out to me. At the same time British grandparents are sitting in Britiain, claiming their free bus passes, their retirement, their expensive medical care etc etc etc. The list goes on.
The data for 2008 IIRC showed that it is only 7% of British residents of Polish origin who claim any form of benefit while this number is over 30% for the native Britons. So if you take Jan z knajpy and Johh from the pub who work at the same job, they pay the same amount of taxes, but the Polish ones use less of this.
Ok, he also sends part of his money home, but not all of this money: he still have to eat here, to live somewhere, to fill up his car… He rather don’t bring Polish electricity in a bucket on Ryanair with him, so he propably also pays for electricity and gas for where he lives. When he works for the low paid job, not much is left to sent home.
At the same time you have rich British expats who retire, buy a house in Spain, Bulgaria or other sunny place and spend 100% of their pensions there as this is where they live. You have 1000s of them, and 1000s of these, who have second homes in this country and spend there only some time in the year, so they spend only some of their earnings. Still, because they are usually much richer than Polish cleaner or Kitchen Porter, each of them removes several times more money from the British economy. How is that that you are not bothered by it?
The fact is there aren’t many/any redundant bombardier train workers who will be offered first refusal to take up their jobs in Germany and to send all their German benefits,as German workers,back here to Britain so as usual the ‘free labour market’ is more of a liability to us than an asset and costs us more than it’s worth.
Well, I dont’ understand this bit. Could you clarify that for me? What stops unemployed British worker to learn some language, booard an Easy Jet plane and go to Germany in search of work, then send his German benefits back to UK? If Poles are able to do so, obviously it has to be peace of cake for the mighty Britons? 
Unless you’re an employer who’s effectively just getting his profits subsidised by cheap east european labour
In Germany there is no such thing like national minimum wage. They were very scared that when they open their market to Poles the rates will go down rapidly. And guess what? Nothing like that happened. It turned out that Poles are not stupid and they don’t want to earn less if they can earn the same as locals do.
Somehow I am not buying this myth of “Poles dropping wages down” here - I don’t believe that before we arrived the cleaner in Tesco was paid 14 pounds per hour 
I do agree that salaries in haulage went down, but the influx of Eastern Europeans is only one of many factors: the best example is that if we believe the old hands on this forum who tell how much they were earning in old good times, there was no sharp downfall in 2004 - the rates were dropping less or more for some time. Also the condition of the British transport industry is not only EE’s fault - the whole market is now getting harder and harder, Polish haulage industry should be blooming if what you saying here is true, but they have it as hard, as you have here. Also your own goverment is here to blame for taxing your industry to death, issuing some laws which put you in disadvantage compared to the rest of Europe and for allowing foreign hauliers to do in-UK runs. The last one is in my eyes such a scandal, that I just don’t understand why few hundreds of trucks werent blocking the Westminster until your politicians start to use their brains again…
There are also many other factors such as agencies, which are the parasites and eat the huge difference between what companies pay and what drivers earn and many more.
and the British social security system that’s subsidising the cost of raising children in Poland and providing even more money to help the growth of the Polish economy at the expense of our own.
As usual you see only one side of the coin. You don’t want to see that you get 1000s of highly qualified nurses (my Scottish doctor friend told me that Polish nurse is educated to a degree the Scottish Junior Doctor is - thats propably because in Polish hospitals nurses are doing much more duties than they do in British ones, so the education system has to reflect it), highly qualified doctors, engineers and other graduates and you did not spent a single penny to educate them, as they got their (free!) education at the expense of Polish taxpayer. At the same time even a simply lorry driver often gets support to pay for his license from Polish equivalent of Job Centre or did his papers in the Army - again, at the expense of Polish taxpayer. And then they work for you, leaving their taxes here.
You know, I have nothing against that you have your own opinion, but if you going to build it, build it on reality. Every coin has two sides. You seem to be able to see only one side of it.
orys:
Well, I dont’ understand this bit. Could you clarify that for me? What stops unemployed British worker to learn some language, booard an Easy Jet plane and go to Germany in search of work, then send his German benefits back to UK? If Poles are able to do so, obviously it has to be peace of cake for the mighty Britons?In Germany there is no such thing like national minimum wage. They were very scared that when they open their market to Poles the rates will go down rapidly. And guess what? Nothing like that happened. It turned out that Poles are not stupid and they don’t want to earn less if they can earn the same as locals do.
Every coin has two sides. You seem to be able to see only one side of it.
I think you’ve just made a good case for sacking every single British worker in Britain and just replace them all with east european labour instead.
Then we can re train all those sacked British workers to speak German and then sack every German worker and replace them all with British ones.
We then re train every sacked German worker to speak Polish and send them all to work in Poland. 
But seriously you’ve obviously not lived here long enough to know that the Germans have never needed a minimum wage and there’s a big difference between their idea of Gaste Arbeiters compared to the free labour market that we’ve got in Europe now.However if it ever does reach the point where the Germans import enough foreign,not just from within the EU,labour for it to affect their free market concerning wage levels,as we have in Britain,then you can bet that you’d see the old Germany,that caused all the trouble during the 1930’s,return.
I don’t get it again. Why I should live longer in UK to learn more about GERMANY?
And apart of playing with the words, you did not answered my question - simple, without any demagogy: what stops Britons to learn a bit of lingo and go to work in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, France…? Many of them, even on this forum, did that already.
The point with open work market is that just if there was no work in Arseshire, people were going to work in Bottomshire and then if people from Bottomshire weren’t happy with that they were moving elsewhere, and pretty much it was always working like you described in your attempt to joke. This is why you have plenty of English people living in Wales, why you have plenty of Scots living in England, why my neighbour is from Inverness and other one is from London. So obviously if it worked for UK, why shouldn’t it be working for the whole EU (providing, that it will be really united and everyone will be treated equally)?
orys:
I don’t get it again. Why I should live longer in UK to learn more about GERMANY?And apart of playing with the words, you did not answered my question - simple, without any demagogy: what stops Britons to learn a bit of lingo and go to work in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, France…? Many of them, even on this forum, did that already.
The point with open work market is that just if there was no work in Arseshire, people were going to work in Bottomshire and then if people from Bottomshire weren’t happy with that they were moving elsewhere, and pretty much it was always working like you described in your attempt to joke. This is why you have plenty of English people living in Wales, why you have plenty of Scots living in England, why my neighbour is from Inverness and other one is from London. So obviously if it worked for UK, why shouldn’t it be working for the whole EU (providing, that it will be really united and everyone will be treated equally)?
Orys if you’d have lived through all the periods of recession experienced here since the 1970’s,let alone the 1920’s,you’d have known that the Germans will never be prepared to live in a Europe in which the wealth is redistributed to the point where when times are good everyone in Europe is as rich as Germany and when times are bad everyone is as poor as Britain let alone Southern Italy or the pre EU east european states.
But assuming that you believe your own bs why is it that the east europeans aren’t keen on living and working in a united europe in their own countries if everyone is supposed to be equal (don’t forget we’re not living in a federal USE yet).
But we haven’t even got equality between Scotland and England let alone Germany and Britain.Which is why Scottish students and pensioners get free university education,prescription charges,and care in old age without having to sell their homes to pay for it unlike the English do if we go there to live even though we all pay into the same taxation system.
I also think that English is a lot easier to learn than any other European language and Britain is a lot easier when it comes to hand outs from it’s social security system.Which are some of the reasons why so many immigrants come to live here rather than go to live in other European countries.While for British workers it’s a lot more difficult to learn other European languages and do you really think that German employers would employ foreign workers in the same numbers as British employers employ foreign workers without sooner or later causing some major problems among their own population.
But considering that the east europeans are supposed to be all about getting away from their old socialist/communist systems you seem to have some typically old fashioned socialist ideas about equality.The fact is it’s a self preservation society and self preservation and society,in this case,means looking after the national interest,which for us shouldn’t be helping to make Germany even richer or anyone else in Europe.They are our competitors not part of a socialist federal country that we all a part of.
Carryfast:
Orys if you’d have lived through all the periods of recession experienced here since the 1970’s,let alone the 1920’s,you’d have known that the Germans will never be prepared to live in a Europe in which when times are good everyone in Europe is as rich as Germany and when times are bad everyone is as poor as Britain let alone Southern Italy or the pre EU east european states.
As if you lived through 1920s to teach me about it
As for “poor Britain” - well if this guy is right: johannhari.com/2011/03/29/the-bi … -politics/ I would really wish everyone to be as poor as Britain is now during these hard times
But assuming that you believe your own bs why is it that the east europeans aren’t keen on living and working in a united europe in their own countries if everyone is supposed to be equal (don’t forget we’re not living in a federal USE yet).
Maybe it will surprise you, but vast majority of them are Just as vast majority of Britons is happy to live in Britain and only some go to sunny countries, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zeland etc.
But we haven’t even got equality between Scotland and England let alone Germany and Britain.Which is why Scottish students and pensioners get free university education,prescription charges,and care in old age without having to sell their homes to pay for it unlike the English do if we go there to live even though we all pay into the same taxation system.
So if you like to earn less, but have more benefits like that, you move to Scotland. If you rahter prefer to earn more, but have it tougher - you move to England. Everyone has right to do as he wish. This is my idea: everyone equal, but everyone different. And everyone moves whenever he likes most.
I also think that English is a lot easier to learn than any other European language
Not really. To learn English properly is hard task. And the pronouncation is very hard. Spanish, for example, is much easier for most Europeans to learn. The point with English is that you can be communicative even when speak very primitive language. This is why it is so popular - and I think it is also the reason why you should be worried -because of all these primitive semi-english speakers the language gets simplified and nowadays even native Britons use very limited language…
and Britain is a lot easier when it comes to hand outs from it’s social security system.
Well, altough I have to agree that Britain is stupid when it comes to give money away, it is not so easy to get that money as you think. Nobody comes here to live from benefits - simply because there are some rights preventing you to do so. When I had a car accident (not blamed by me) after 23 months of living, working and paying taxes here and I was unable to work for several weeks due to my injuries, I could not count on any help, not even the fully refundable crisis loan. To get anything non-work related (so exceptions are child benefit and WTC, I think) you have to be taxpayer here for minimum 24 months. So it is not as you seem to believe, that the first steps of every immigrant is to get his pocket stuffed byby benefit office.
Which are some of the reasons why so many immigrants come to live here rather than go to live in other European countries.
AFAIK the situation is different when it comes to refugees etc. But it is definitely not a case when it comes to EU citizens.
While for British workers it’s a lot more difficult to learn other European languages
No, it’s not. I have many British friends on my Uni departament who speak Polish or/and Czech or/and Russian. I have one friend who speak so good Polish that when I introduced him to my Polish friends they could not believe that he is NOT Polish, and he studies it only four years. And apart of it he speaks fluent Czech and Italian and also some Russian and Ukrainian.
I used to give Polish lessons and my ex gf still does that with many successes. You are not any more stupid that any other nation and there is no reason why you should need special treatment when it comes to learning foreign languages. OK, you might have less chance to practice it, as everyone propably wants to practice their English on you, but it’s only a matter of you wanting or not.
do you really think that German employers would employ foreign workers in the same numbers as British employers employ foreign workers without sooner or later causing some major problems among their own population.
Judging from their attempts to atracts Polish workers they are ready to employ much more foreign workers than they employ today. And there is that crisis allegedly, let me remind you
orys:
Carryfast:
Orys if you’d have lived through all the periods of recession experienced here since the 1970’s,let alone the 1920’s,you’d have known that the Germans will never be prepared to live in a Europe in which when times are good everyone in Europe is as rich as Germany and when times are bad everyone is as poor as Britain let alone Southern Italy or the pre EU east european states.As if you lived through 1920s to teach me about it
As for “poor Britain” - well if this guy is right: johannhari.com/2011/03/29/the-bi … -politics/ I would really wish everyone to be as poor as Britain is now during these hard times
But assuming that you believe your own bs why is it that the east europeans aren’t keen on living and working in a united europe in their own countries if everyone is supposed to be equal (don’t forget we’re not living in a federal USE yet).
Maybe it will surprise you, but vast majority of them are
But we haven’t even got equality between Scotland and England let alone Germany and Britain.Which is why Scottish students and pensioners get free university education,prescription charges,and care in old age without having to sell their homes to pay for it unlike the English do if we go there to live even though we all pay into the same taxation system.
So if you like to earn less, but have more benefits like that, you move to Scotland. If you rahter prefer to earn more, but have it tougher - you move to England. Everyone has right to do as he wish. This is my idea: everyone equal, but everyone different. And everyone moves whenever he likes most.
I also think that English is a lot easier to learn than any other European language
Not really. To learn English properly is hard task. And the pronouncation is very hard. Spanish, for example, is much easier for most Europeans to learn. The point with English is that you can be communicative even when speak very primitive language. This is why it is so popular - and I think it is also the reason why you should be worried -because of all these primitive semi-english speakers the language gets simplified and nowadays even native Britons use very limited language…
and Britain is a lot easier when it comes to hand outs from it’s social security system.
Well, altough I have to agree that Britain is stupid when it comes to give money away, it is not so easy to get that money as you think. Nobody comes here to live from benefits - simply because there are some rights preventing you to do so. When I had a car accident (not blamed by me) after 23 months of living, working and paying taxes here and I was unable to work for several weeks due to my injuries, I could not count on any help, not even the fully refundable crisis loan. To get anything non-work related (so exceptions are child benefit and WTC, I think) you have to be taxpayer here for minimum 24 months. So it is not as you seem to believe, that the first steps of every immigrant is to get his pocket stuffed byby benefit office.
Which are some of the reasons why so many immigrants come to live here rather than go to live in other European countries.
AFAIK the situation is different when it comes to refugees etc. But it is definitely not a case when it comes to EU citizens.
While for British workers it’s a lot more difficult to learn other European languages
No, it’s not. I have many British friends on my Uni departament who speak Polish or/and Czech or/and Russian. I have one friend who speak so good Polish that when I introduced him to my Polish friends they could not believe that he is NOT Polish, and he studies it only four years. And apart of it he speaks fluent Czech and Italian and also some Russian and Ukrainian.
I used to give Polish lessons and my ex gf still does that with many successes. You are not any more stupid that any other nation and there is no reason why you should need special treatment when it comes to learning foreign languages. OK, you might have less chance to practice it, as everyone propably wants to practice their English on you, but it’s only a matter of you wanting or not.
do you really think that German employers would employ foreign workers in the same numbers as British employers employ foreign workers without sooner or later causing some major problems among their own population.
Judging from their attempts to atracts Polish workers they are ready to employ much more foreign workers than they employ today. And there is that crisis allegedly, let me remind you
I wasn’t here during the 1920’s Orys but I knew what happened then because I heard it from some of those who were.It seems to me like you know plenty about what happened at Yalta but you don’t seem to understand much about how it was that Poland ended up getting invaded by a load of very zb’d off Germans.
However I was here during the 1970’s and if you’d have seen the financial problems we had then with our own coal and North Sea oil pouring out of the ground compared to how good the Germans had it you’d know that johann Hari is talking bollox considering that we’re now a net importer of oil,gas,and coal that’s even without taking into account the loss of our wealth creating industry since then.
I think that you’re listening to too much EU socialist bs instead of living in the real world just like the rest of them in Brussels.
Carryfast:
I wasn’t here during the 1920’s Orys but I knew what happened then because I was heard it by some of those who were.It seems to me like you know plenty about what happened at Yalta but you don’t seem to understand much about how it was that Poland ended up getting invaded by a load of very zb’d off Germans.
Well, maybe you should listen to Piłsudski in 1934 and sort the Nazis out together with us?
I think that you’re listening to too much EU socialist bs instead of living in the real world just like the rest of them in Brussels.
See, difference between you and me is that I listen to everyone and make my own mind BASED ON ALL AVAILABLE DATA, while you have your mind set and then listen only to these, who speak what fits into your opinion
orys:
Carryfast:
I wasn’t here during the 1920’s Orys but I knew what happened then because I was heard it by some of those who were.It seems to me like you know plenty about what happened at Yalta but you don’t seem to understand much about how it was that Poland ended up getting invaded by a load of very zb’d off Germans.Well, maybe you should listen to PiÅ‚sudski in 1934 and sort the Nazis out together with us?
I think that you’re listening to too much EU socialist bs instead of living in the real world just like the rest of them in Brussels.
See, difference between you and me is that I listen to everyone and make my own mind BASED ON ALL AVAILABLE DATA, while you have your mind set and then listen only to these, who speak what fits into your opinion
Orys all the available data says that if you treated the EU as one united Federal country with just one balance sheet with just the Euro as it’s currency,in which Germany was just one of it’s States and in which the European central bank took responsibility for the accounts of the Federation as a whole and in which every state was equally liable for all the debts of the other and in which wealth was distributed equally amongst every state,then the whole lot would be a debt ridden bankrupt sinking ship.The only thing that’s keeping it afloat is the fact that it isn’t a federation and it still has the watertight compartments of national borders and seperate national banks and accounts.
The question is wether the single currency linking the Greek,Italian and Spanish economy to the German one and all of the European integration done so far by letting the east european states join the EU has effectively done the same thing.The fact that a country as rich as Germany is now asking countries as poor as Britain and Poland to help it out financially says everything.
Cameron has just shown how totally zb brainless and stupid that he is by not just telling Germany to zb off and that Britain was leaving the EU with immediate effect.
Carryfast:
Orys all the available data says that if you treated the EU as one united Federal country with just one balance sheet with just the Euro as it’s currency,in which Germany was just one of it’s States and in which the European central bank took responsibility for the accounts of the Federation as a whole and in which every state was equally liable for all the debts of the other and in which wealth was distributed equally amongst every state,then the whole lot would be a debt ridden bankrupt sinking ship.The only thing that’s keeping it afloat is the fact that it isn’t a federation and it still has the watertight compartments of national borders and seperate national banks and accounts.
I am not telling that it have to be done tonight. But after the problems will be sorted, I think it should gradually go that way.
Somehow England, Wales and Scotland have common budget and common monetary unit and they are not debt ridden bankrupt sinking ship, are they?
The question is wether the single currency linking the Greek,Italian and Spanish economy to the German one and all of the European integration done so far by letting the east european states join the EU has effectively done the same thing.The fact that a country as rich as Germany is now asking countries as poor as Britain and Poland to help it out financially says everything.
Yeah, the problem is that Greece should not be let into the Euro in the first place and Germany now play important guys, but they were breaking the rules themselves.
Cameron has just shown how totally zb brainless and stupid that he is by not just telling Germany to zb off and that Britain was leaving the EU with immediate effect.
That’s your opinion.
orys:
Carryfast:
Orys all the available data says that if you treated the EU as one united Federal country with just one balance sheet with just the Euro as it’s currency,in which Germany was just one of it’s States and in which the European central bank took responsibility for the accounts of the Federation as a whole and in which every state was equally liable for all the debts of the other and in which wealth was distributed equally amongst every state,then the whole lot would be a debt ridden bankrupt sinking ship.The only thing that’s keeping it afloat is the fact that it isn’t a federation and it still has the watertight compartments of national borders and seperate national banks and accounts.I am not telling that it have to be done tonight. But after the problems will be sorted, I think it should gradually go that way.
Somehow England, Wales and Scotland have common budget and common monetary unit and they are not debt ridden bankrupt sinking ship, are they?
England,Wales,and Scotland might not be a bankrupt sinking ship (yet) but we aren’t far from it.However if we were to be made equally liable for all the liabilities of the EU,as they stand at present on the balance sheet v assets and incomes, we’d probably go down with the rest of it.As I said the fact that Germany needs a country with a balance sheet as bad as ours at present to try to save the EU’s currency and economy from meltdown says everything.
Although it’s my guess that Germany is just trying to hang on to more of it’s cash to keep for itself by sacrificing even more of what’s left of our economy to help bail out the rest of Europe which it needs to keep buying it’s products to maintain that typical German standard of living just like the last time when we were in recession in the late 1970’s and early 1980.
As I’ve said zb em we should have been out of there like a shot as soon as they asked for the money and told them to shove the EU and let Germany pay for it all by cutting their living standards to less than those of Britain’s for a change.
It’s obvious that the east europeans want a federal EU which isn’t what we voted for in the 1973 referendum in which case we would require another referendum for that anyway even though Cameron is too stupid to get out now while we’ve still got some money left and before the Germans get their hands on it.
Ech, I am reading you and I have to say it must be very sad life to be a Briton. Everyone is after your money: colonies were milking you for money and you were supporting them simply because you have good heart, and wanted to bring the light and civilisation to them. There was absolutely no profit for you from having colonies (I don’t remember if it was you or one of your collegues). Then you get involved into war to help Poles, instead of just seating safely on your comfy island and do not care of what is going on the word, as becase if not Poland, noone would ever attacked you and you could have comfortable life in your land of milk and honey. Then you started having businesses with Germany and they always managed to outsmart you and to milk your country of wealth. They even tricked you in this European organisations. Then the 70s crisis came and you could completely don’t care about it, as you off course have your own oil and coal and copletely no relations with the outside world, but again somehow made a mistake and suffered like everyone else. Now the new European Union - everyone are after you and you don’t have a single penny profit of it.
And to top it all you don’t have any friends - either they are after your money, or they are lazy coward idiots like French.
I have to say that reading you I feell pity for you all and I am glad that I am not British
orys:
Ech, I am reading you and I have to say it must be very sad life to be a Briton. Everyone is after your money: colonies were milking you for money and you were supporting them simply because you have good heart, and wanted to bring the light and civilisation to them. There was absolutely no profit for you from having colonies (I don’t remember if it was you or one of your collegues). Then you get involved into war to help Poles, instead of just seating safely on your comfy island and do not care of what is going on the word, as becase if not Poland, noone would ever attacked you and you could have comfortable life in your land of milk and honey. Then you started having businesses with Germany and they always managed to outsmart you and to milk your country of wealth. They even tricked you in this European organisations. Then the 70s crisis came and you could completely don’t care about it, as you off course have your own oil and coal and copletely no relations with the outside world, but again somehow made a mistake and suffered like everyone else. Now the new European Union - everyone are after you and you don’t have a single penny profit of it.And to top it all you don’t have any friends - either they are after your money, or they are lazy coward idiots like French.
I have to say that reading you I feell pity for you all and I am glad that I am not British
Orys no German could ever outsmart me which is why they’d never let me be the prime minister unlike zb Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher,Major and Blair and now that useless pair of zb’s Cam and Clegg.
Carryfast:
Orys no German could ever outsmart me which is why they’d never let me be the prime minister unlike zb Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher,Major and Blair and now that useless pair of zb’s Cam and Clegg.
Oh, yes, I forgot, you are the wisest here. What a loss that you were born British, so you are unable to change the world for better
And here is another sign he wont sign.
The Velvet Revolution. The Sequel 
Twenty-five of the EU’s 27 member states have agreed to join a fiscal treaty to enforce budget discipline.
The Czech Republic and the UK refused to sign up. UK Prime Minister David Cameron said his government would act if the treaty threatened UK interests.
He still has “legal concerns” about the use of EU institutions in enforcing the fiscal treaty, he said.
The Czechs cited “constitutional reasons” for their refusal, France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy said.
Czech President Vaclav Klaus, a Eurosceptic, may be reluctant to sign the treaty,
Wheel Nut:
And here is another sign he wont sign.The Velvet Revolution. The Sequel
Twenty-five of the EU’s 27 member states have agreed to join a fiscal treaty to enforce budget discipline.
The Czech Republic and the UK refused to sign up. UK Prime Minister David Cameron said his government would act if the treaty threatened UK interests.
He still has “legal concerns” about the use of EU institutions in enforcing the fiscal treaty, he said.
The Czechs cited “constitutional reasons” for their refusal, France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy said.
Czech President Vaclav Klaus, a Eurosceptic, may be reluctant to sign the treaty,
So what that really means,if you read between the lines of the treaty, is that Germany and France will leave the EU and leave Britain and all the rest to it.
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
And here is another sign he wont sign.The Velvet Revolution. The Sequel
Twenty-five of the EU’s 27 member states have agreed to join a fiscal treaty to enforce budget discipline.
The Czech Republic and the UK refused to sign up. UK Prime Minister David Cameron said his government would act if the treaty threatened UK interests.
He still has “legal concerns” about the use of EU institutions in enforcing the fiscal treaty, he said.
The Czechs cited “constitutional reasons” for their refusal, France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy said.
Czech President Vaclav Klaus, a Eurosceptic, may be reluctant to sign the treaty,
So what that really means,if you read between the lines of the treaty, is that Germany and France will leave the EU and leave Britain and all the rest to it.
That would cause me a grin…
It was Germany and France who were in right at the start of the EEC.