whilst spending 26 hrs on a site last thurs/fri with 19 other drivers there was a slight difference in opinion over a certain tacho rule
in a nut shell we all put cards in a 6am did the checks a bit of shunting around to make room for the site workers this was roughly over an hr the rest of the day the card was on bed
after being sat there for a full day some of us had hit nine hrs on break
the question is that if the drivers have 9 hrs on bed could they then crack on with a full days work or would they have to wait until midnight for the 24 hr rule
no one seemed to know and a few answers were being thrown around so im handing it over to you
card out, new card in, another full shift can be done
now waits for the ‘must have 8 hours sleep’ brigade to turn up
OllieNotts, you have been called
The answer is “it depends”. If the time recorded as bed on the tacho meets the requirement for rest (I’m specifically thinking of the “able to freely dispose of your time” rule), then you have had your 9h rest and you can put a fresh card in and start a new 24h period. If you were not able to freely dispose of your time (for example if you were required to stay on site) then it would only count as break and not rest and therefore you’ve not had your daily rest and therefore can’t start a new 24h period.
Paul
repton:
The answer is “it depends”. If the time recorded as bed on the tacho meets the requirement for rest (I’m specifically thinking of the “able to freely dispose of your time” rule), then you have had your 9h rest and you can put a fresh card in and start a new 24h period. If you were not able to freely dispose of your time (for example if you were required to stay on site) then it would only count as break and not rest and therefore you’ve not had your daily rest and therefore can’t start a new 24h period.Paul
that is technically correct, but, who is going to check?
shuttlespanker:
that is technically correct, but, who is going to check?
Indeed, in the real world you would almost certainly just put a card in and the chance of getting caught is near enough zero.
It does no harm though to point out that there is a difference between rest and break as it is something people often get confused over, and if you do get stopped you need to make sure you have the right answer ready…
Paul
repton:
and if you do get stopped you need to make sure you have the right answer ready…Paul
correct!!
20 minutes or 4 hours makes no difference.
You have had 9 hours rest between the end of one duty and the start of another
the reason i ask was we was just sat around waiting to have boxes lifted off but some us sat there all day due to it being such a balls up some of us ended up witha 9 hr break as work says if you not driving or doing other work you put it on bed
i hate to say it but wouldn’t POA have been better? did they tell you how long it would be before you had to wait?
mucker85:
i hate to say it but wouldn’t POA have been better? did they tell you how long it would be before you had to wait?
How could you use POA? They didn’t know how long the job was going to take.
We used to get this quite often with ships, 20 tankers would turn up to discharge a ship, and the ship hadn’t arrived. The only thing you could do was go back to bed, because once the ship arrived you were not going to sleep until it was empty 
mucker85:
i hate to say it but wouldn’t POA have been better? did they tell you how long it would be before you had to wait?
our firm dont operate on poa either hammers or bed its strange really its the only place i have worked that done use it and it was a case of sit and wait we have no idea when you will be shouted over
cliffton 27:
mucker85:
i hate to say it but wouldn’t POA have been better? did they tell you how long it would be before you had to wait?our firm dont operate on poa either hammers or bed its strange really its the only place i have worked that done use it and it was a case of sit and wait we have no idea when you will be shouted over
That’s cause POA is a load of crap. Whatever works for POA will also work for break.
The only time I record any POA is as a manual entry if I’ve been waiting for a truck to arrive at start of shift, eg start at 7am, truck has been delayed by 30 mins, so half 7 ish it gets in, POA from 7 till half past, then Other work for checks and steering wheel thingy when driving 
They can’t FORCE you to do another (upto) 15hr shift after 9hrs ‘rest’ but if it means you getting home and that’s what you want, then go for it as it’s been legally recorded.
cliffton 27:
the reason i ask was we was just sat around waiting to have boxes lifted off but some us sat there all day due to it being such a balls up some of us ended up witha 9 hr break as work says if you not driving or doing other work you put it on bed
If my gaffer insisited that I put it on bed whilst waiting around then sorry the answer would be either “NO” as I am not free to dispose of my time as I want too, or "ok boss but i’m off to do some shopping/sight seeing, give me a call when they want me back "
I’d do what ever the bosses dictate cos I love my £7.50 an hour …
repton:
The answer is “it depends”. If the time recorded as bed on the tacho meets the requirement for rest (I’m specifically thinking of the “able to freely dispose of your time” rule), then you have had your 9h rest and you can put a fresh card in and start a new 24h period. If you were not able to freely dispose of your time (for example if you were required to stay on site) then it would only count as break and not rest and therefore you’ve not had your daily rest and therefore can’t start a new 24h period.Paul
Theoreticall question. What if I am driving 1 hour per day? (I used to have job like that, driving to the printing works for 22:00hrs, go to sleep, do two 20 minutes runs at around 3am, home). Say I did not needed to go there and wait 5 hours on the spot, but just to go to work for 2 hours.
Could I do it like that 2 hours work, 11 hours sleep, 2 hours work, 9 hours sleep… Therefore doing two shifts in one day?
Could I then work, say, 12 shifts per week? 
raymundo:
I’d do what ever the bosses dictate cos I love my £7.50 an hour …
whats that got to do with anything 
orys:
repton:
The answer is “it depends”. If the time recorded as bed on the tacho meets the requirement for rest (I’m specifically thinking of the “able to freely dispose of your time” rule), then you have had your 9h rest and you can put a fresh card in and start a new 24h period. If you were not able to freely dispose of your time (for example if you were required to stay on site) then it would only count as break and not rest and therefore you’ve not had your daily rest and therefore can’t start a new 24h period.Paul
Theoreticall question. What if I am driving 1 hour per day? (I used to have job like that, driving to the printing works for 22:00hrs, go to sleep, do two 20 minutes runs at around 3am, home). Say I did not needed to go there and wait 5 hours on the spot, but just to go to work for 2 hours.
Could I do it like that 2 hours work, 11 hours sleep, 2 hours work, 9 hours sleep… Therefore doing two shifts in one day?
Could I then work, say, 12 shifts per week?
Yes, it’s called a split daily rest period. One rest consisting of at least 3 hours and one of at least 9.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
cliffton 27:
the reason i ask was we was just sat around waiting to have boxes lifted off but some us sat there all day due to it being such a balls up some of us ended up witha 9 hr break as work says if you not driving or doing other work you put it on bed
This sort of thing scares me and the regs do nothing to protect the driver or public.
Yes you’ve had 9 hours rest but have you rested some employers will expect the driver to crack on for another 15 hour shift and the law says you’re good to go.
Mr B:
cliffton 27:
the reason i ask was we was just sat around waiting to have boxes lifted off but some us sat there all day due to it being such a balls up some of us ended up witha 9 hr break as work says if you not driving or doing other work you put it on bedThis sort of thing scares me and the regs do nothing to protect the driver or public.
Yes you’ve had 9 hours rest but have you rested some employers will expect the driver to crack on for another 15 hour shift and the law says you’re good to go.
Only if you feel up to it. 9hrs is the MINIMUM rest required and it’s illegal to drive tired 
As I said, it’s how it suits you, no company is going to run you after 9hrs waiting time surely, if they did, then they don’t think much of their 80 grand motor, 10 grand trailer, 100 grand of cargo or the drivers (or anyone else on the road) and if they’d TOLD me to do it and it didn’t suit and I didn’t feel upto it, I’d tell them where to go and jump - but I’m on agency now (partly) because of this sort of attitude where I don’t roll over and play pet for muppets.
In my opinion only a fool would do it. That’s why it scares me how many fools do you see daily?