stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
Yes, why wouldn’t anyone? In many trucks the keys have to be in and turned on notch for the night heater to stay on more than an hour anyway.
Clearly the driver wasn’t on a break/rest at the time?
Are you stating a fact or asking a question?
I’d say my use of a “?” would suggest a question.
robinhood_1984:
mickyblue:
But that is down to the officer to find out if there was any intent.
Truck driver is asleep in the back of his truck, how does anyone find intent in that, police officer or not? If I’m alseep in my truck, the only thing I’m intending to do is sleep. It looks to be that the presence of his keys in the ignition were the legal means to read more in to this and achieve a convenient conviction on yet another technicality, something Britain excels at unfortunetely.
Yes he’s a fool for drinking like that on the job, but from what I’ve read of it he seems to be guilty of nothing more than the police adding 2+2 and getting 5 and they’ve successfully claimed his keys in ignition to be “intent” when any one of us on here who’s driven trucks for more than 2 days will know that you have to have them in the ignition on many models to keep the night heater on and electronics working and it has nothing to do with intending to drive off anywhere during your daily rest.
I’m not a drinker myself, I’m not against it but it doesn’t do anything for me so I dont bother but I have to say that anyone who drinks more than a little in the truck at night is only asking for trouble and is taking one hell of a risk for getting caught “the morning after” etc and I in no way condone heavy drinking the night before driving the next day BUT I also dont believe in police assumptions of intent that are fatally flawed, such as may be the case here if keys in the ignition are that source of intent, though we dont know very much about it so perhaps not. The bottom line is I dont trust the police to offer an impatial analysis of the situation when its so socially and politically charged a topic and getting a conviction looks good in the local paper to appease concerned locals.
Keys in ignition demonstrate absolutely nothing, end of. Just because this man has behaved in an idiotic way it doesn’t mean he deserves to be punished for something that he didn’t actually do, just incase he might have done it.
You’re making a lot of assumptions, unless of course you were there?
The news article is quite sketchy with the details. We don’t know where on the road it happened, what time of day it was, whether the driver was indeed on a break/rest etc etc.
He’s not denied any of it?
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
Is it not down to the police to prove that he drove there ■■■■■■ rather than speculating whether he actually would drive or not?
Woulda shoulda coulda.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is. 
FarnboroughBoy11:
Is it not down to the police to prove that he drove there ■■■■■■ rather than speculating whether he actually would drive or not?
That’s easily done by doing a back calculation of the alcohol reading and reviewing tacho data.
RoadsRat:
You’re making a lot of assumptions, unless of course you were there?
The news article is quite sketchy with the details. We don’t know where on the road it happened, what time of day it was, whether the driver was indeed on a break/rest etc etc.
He’s not denied any of it?
I’m stating a fact that the presence of keys in the ignition means absolutely nothing in itself, any one who has ever driven a truck and done nights out will know this and the only assumptions being drawn here are by the police, using it as a convenient perceived “smoking gun” because firstly they have no knowledge of driving trucks or that trucks are made in such a way where by the keys need to be in the ignition for the night heater to work and electronics stay on etc etc etc (as I’ve said several times already).
My argument here isn’t so much with the case in hand, neither of us know much about it, although the mention of the keys in the first place at least suggests to me that this was a main linch pin in their prosecution. My argument is with you and those who suggest that keys in the ignition imply intent to drive a commercial goods vehicle, which for all intenses and purposes is on a daily rest and standard proceedure throughout the entire industry is to leave the keys in the ignition for the reasons I stated above. No intent whatsoever, only a convenient technicality to do someone as it would appear that the legal defintion of “intent” does not fit with real life (theres a suprise).
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
You’re making a lot of assumptions, unless of course you were there?
The news article is quite sketchy with the details. We don’t know where on the road it happened, what time of day it was, whether the driver was indeed on a break/rest etc etc.
He’s not denied any of it?
I’m stating a fact that the presence of keys in the ignition means absolutely nothing in itself, any one who has ever driven a truck and done nights out will know this and the only assumptions being drawn here are by the police, using it as a convenient perceived “smoking gun” because firstly they have no knowledge of driving trucks or that trucks are made in such a way where by the keys need to be in the ignition for the night heater to work and electronics stay on etc etc etc (as I’ve said several times already).
My argument here isn’t so much with the case in hand, neither of us know much about it, although the mention of the keys in the first place at least suggests to me that this was a main linch pin in their prosecution. My argument is with you and those who suggest that keys in the ignition imply intent to drive a commercial goods vehicle, which for all intenses and purposes is on a daily rest and standard proceedure throughout the entire industry is to leave the keys in the ignition for the reasons I stated above. No intent whatsoever, only a convenient technicality to do someone as it would appear that the legal defintion of “intent” does not fit with real life (theres a suprise).
I have no issue with keys being left in the ignition when on a rest/break period.
Just for your reference, the Oxford dictionary meaning of intent is:
adjective
1 (intent on/upon) determined to do (something)
You still have’nt explained my scenario
RoadsRat:
stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
Yes, why wouldn’t anyone? In many trucks the keys have to be in and turned on notch for the night heater to stay on more than an hour anyway.
Clearly the driver wasn’t on a break/rest at the time?
Are you stating a fact or asking a question?
I’d say my use of a “?” would suggest a question.
But there isn’t a question, just a question mark, hence my question.
RoadsRat:
Just for your reference, the Oxford dictionary meaning of intent is:
adjective
1 (intent on/upon) determined to do (something)
Being asleep in the back of a truck shows a complete lack of determination to do absolutely anything. Sleeping is a lack of conciousness and that is the complete opposite state of being awake and commit or even thinking about commiting a physical act.
commonrail:
You still have’nt explained my scenario
I asked you a question and I got a smart arse reply.
stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
Yes, why wouldn’t anyone? In many trucks the keys have to be in and turned on notch for the night heater to stay on more than an hour anyway.
Clearly the driver wasn’t on a break/rest at the time?
Are you stating a fact or asking a question?
I’d say my use of a “?” would suggest a question.
But there isn’t a question, just a question mark, hence my question.
It was a rhetorical question.
HTH.
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
Just for your reference, the Oxford dictionary meaning of intent is:
adjective
1 (intent on/upon) determined to do (something)
Being asleep in the back of a truck shows a complete lack of determination to do absolutely anything. Sleeping is a lack of conciousness and that is the complete opposite state of being awake and commit or even thinking about commiting a physical act.
Was he asleep or just passed out/semi-conscious from that half bottle of vodka?
RoadsRat:
stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
stevieboy308:
RoadsRat:
robinhood_1984:
RoadsRat:
He was found “with the keys in the ignition”. Do you go to sleep with the keys left in the ignition?
Yes, why wouldn’t anyone? In many trucks the keys have to be in and turned on notch for the night heater to stay on more than an hour anyway.
Clearly the driver wasn’t on a break/rest at the time?
Are you stating a fact or asking a question?
I’d say my use of a “?” would suggest a question.
But there isn’t a question, just a question mark, hence my question.
It was a rhetorical question.
HTH.
NID
how can it be a rhetorical question, without there being a question?
RoadsRat:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of ■■■■ like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
FarnboroughBoy11:
RoadsRat:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition?
But where is the evidence concerning the driver being parked up on a night out.The fact that he pleaded guilty seems to answer that question. 
RoadsRat:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Is it not down to the police to prove that he drove there ■■■■■■ rather than speculating whether he actually would drive or not?
That’s easily done by doing a back calculation of the alcohol reading and reviewing tacho data.
I can appreciate that and fair enough if every avenue points to him driving there. But this keys in the ignition business is just rubbish.
.