FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition?
But where is the evidence concerning the driver being parked up on a night out.The fact that he pleaded guilty seems to answer that question.
Forget about that, I’m using myself as an example.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition?
But where is the evidence concerning the driver being parked up on a night out.The fact that he pleaded guilty seems to answer that question.
Forget about that, I’m using myself as an example.
I’d say if your tacho is on rest and you told the law that you were parked up for the night then it’s up to them to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you weren’t.Although there have been plenty of cases where someone can still be over the limit long after drinking.So don’t be surprised if there’d be some questions related to when you started your rest period and when you started drinking and when you intended to start again if you’ve been drinking while parked up.But having a container full of booze connected to the steering wheel probably wouldn’t be the best idea in that case.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’.In this case it seems that the driver admitted to not being parked up during the course of a long rest period with the resulting implications regarding the intention/possibility of driving while under the influence of alcohol and the law could prove beyond reasonable doubt that was the case.Hence the driver’s admission of guilt instead of going to court and telling the court that he was not guilty because he was parked up with no possibility of driving the truck before he was clear of the effects of alcohol.Simples.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition?
But where is the evidence concerning the driver being parked up on a night out.The fact that he pleaded guilty seems to answer that question.
Forget about that, I’m using myself as an example.
I’d say if your tacho is on rest and you told the law that you were parked up for the night then it’s up to them to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you weren’t.Although there have been plenty of cases where someone can still be over the limit long after drinking.So don’t be surprised if there’d be some questions related to when you started your rest period and when you started drinking and when you intended to start again if you’ve been drinking while parked up.But having a container full of booze connected to the steering wheel probably wouldn’t be the best idea in that case.
Yes, my tacho would show all of that and of course whether I’m having 11 or 9 off would come into play as well.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’
Well that’s it isn’t it, that’s the problem with this whole scenario.
To me and you it’s completely obvious but when two bobbys knock on your cab door and see the keys in the ignition, bang, you are “drunk in charge”
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
It’s impossible to cover every single scenario and situation. The laws very clear. Interpret as you see fit.
If its obvious you’re on a rest/break period then all’s good.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’
Well that’s it isn’t it, that’s the problem with this whole scenario.
To me and you it’s completely obvious but when two bobbys knock on your cab door and see the keys in the ignition, bang, you are “drunk in charge”
No, it’s not that cut and dry.
In the unlikely event that you were accused, then I’m sure you’d have all the necessary paperwork to prove otherwise?
commonrail:
You still have’nt explained my scenario
I asked you a question and I got a smart arse reply.
No you did’nt…the copper at the scene said it was pointless doing a roadside test as I was obviously drunk.
I blew in the machine at the station,but I was drunk,so I can’t remember the reading…and it was over 15 years ago.
Trying to cut through some of the silly arguments on this thread, I’d go along with what Carryfast is saying. That is that none of us know what his tacho was set to, which in turn means that we don’t know how long ago his last driving turn ended. One scenario is that his tacho could have still been on work or a 45 or something. Having that drink clipped to the wheel definitely wouldn’t help his case. I doubt he would have plead guilty if he thought he had a case to fight. It may be the case that he was on a short break and was intending to have a ‘sickie’, but that’s something he’d have a hard job proving.
I know some would disagree, but I’ve never had and never would have alcohol in a lorry. And yes, I do drink.
I can understand to some degree why he had his drink attached to his steering wheel.
Firstly, it would make it impossible to drive with it being there, it’s like a ■■■■■■■■■ crook lock.
and secondly, i can’t be the first person to make sure he stores his beverage (alcoholic or not) in a safe place due to inadvertently swigging out of his ■■■■ bottle during the night.
limeyphil:
I can understand to some degree why he had his drink attached to his steering wheel.
Firstly, it would make it impossible to drive with it being there, it’s like a ■■■■■■■■■ crook lock.
and secondly, i can’t be the first person to make sure he stores his beverage (alcoholic or not) in a safe place due to inadvertently swigging out of his ■■■■ bottle during the night.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’
Well that’s it isn’t it, that’s the problem with this whole scenario.
To me and you it’s completely obvious but when two bobbys knock on your cab door and see the keys in the ignition, bang, you are “drunk in charge”
No, it’s not that cut and dry.
In the unlikely event that you were accused, then I’m sure you’d have all the necessary paperwork to prove otherwise?
Yes I would hope they take 5 minutes to asses the whole situation, seeing my card out of the tacho head and I would do a print out for them to show them how long I had been there and also tell them what time I plan to leave the next morning. Also I would hope they would take into account that i will be in my shorts, with the night heater on, watching a film on my lap top, empty cutlery everywhere etc etc so hopefully keys in the ignition or not, they would come to the conclusion that I am not intending to drive.
RoadsRat:
…Why are we going around and around in circles? …
It’s cut and dried.
dts: At Perth Sheriff Court, Mason, 66, admitted being drunk in charge of an articulated lorry on the A827 Ballinluig to Killin road on September 19, 2012…
You can argue till the cows-come-home but because of his own admission to the charges…Case closed Your Honour’s.
commonrail:
You still have’nt explained my scenario
I asked you a question and I got a smart arse reply.
No you did’nt…the copper at the scene said it was pointless doing a roadside test as I was obviously drunk.
I blew in the machine at the station,but I was drunk,so I can’t remember the reading…and it was over 15 years ago.
Stand to be corrected, but they arrested you for being unfit Section 4 RTA?
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’.In this case it seems that the driver admitted to not being parked up during the course of a long rest period with the resulting implications regarding the intention/possibility of driving while under the influence of alcohol and the law could prove beyond reasonable doubt that was the case.Hence the driver’s admission of guilt instead of going to court and telling the court that he was not guilty because he was parked up with no possibility of driving the truck before he was clear of the effects of alcohol.Simples.
Your in that vehicle and your in charge of it. If your not, you better find a hotel room!
FarnboroughBoy11:
Why would you take the keys out of the ignition, where is there a better place for them? If I’m on a 9 hour rest asleep in the bunk does that mean I intend to drive just because I haven’t taken the keys out?
You clearly don’t understand the offence of “drunk in charge”.
You cannot compare a drunk driver who’s twice the DD limit with one who isn’t.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, but appears for some that it is.
Clearly not, please explain it to me. If I choose to drink during my 9/11 hours off, does that mean I automatically intend to drive because my keys are in the ignition? Or does it mean that I want to enjoy a few beers whilst listening to talk sport after a long day?
(I personally don’t have any beer in the truck because of [zb] like this but I’m saying its still wrong)
If I park my car on my drive and leave the keys in the ignition and go and get ■■■■■■ in my house and the police turn up at my door, when am I deemed to be “drunk in charge”?
When my hand touches the door handle, when?? As its sounding like just because “the keys are in the ignition” you must be a drink driver.
Why are we going around and around in circles?
If you’re parked in a layby or suitable rest area, have your tacho set to rest and aren’t over the DD limit etc, then you clearly aren’t “drunk in charge”. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.
To be “drunk in charge”, you also have to be drunk.
If its clear you’re on a break then there’s no issues. Simples.
So what you’re saying is:
We can’t go for a few beers on a Friday night? (6 to 8 pints being the norm).
It’s not uncommon to park up on a friday or saturday, Then go out with some other drivers, maybe sleep most of the following day before starting again on monday.
Not all drivers do the same work, it’s very varied. some jobs take 2 weeks to get there.
Your version of the law appears to be very rigid.
If you’re parked up during the course of a night or weekend out then it’s obvious that doesn’t fit the description of being ‘in charge of a vehicle’.In this case it seems that the driver admitted to not being parked up during the course of a long rest period with the resulting implications regarding the intention/possibility of driving while under the influence of alcohol and the law could prove beyond reasonable doubt that was the case.Hence the driver’s admission of guilt instead of going to court and telling the court that he was not guilty because he was parked up with no possibility of driving the truck before he was clear of the effects of alcohol.Simples.
Your in that vehicle and your in charge of it. If your not, you better find a hotel room!
If that’s the deciding factor then there’s probably loads of motor home users who maybe drink enough to put them over the limit while parked up for a day or two who’ll need to get rid of them and either change them for a caravan or use a hotel instead.
