Can someone explain in simple terms what POA does…
Just left the yard…boss said you’ll have to wait a hour when you get there…so put it on POA for the hour…I know what it means…but how does it work …does it mean if I started at 6am and done a 15 hour day (i should finish 9pm)…does 1 hour POA mean I could finish at 10pm…sorry newbie ■■■■
…many thanks
No it does’nt…Everything has to be within those 13 & 15 hour days…Remember also…That poa resets all your driving time…But is not a break…So if you drive of you might get it flash up that you need a break…And you will have to take that 45 break then…
Shane129:
Can someone explain in simple terms what POA does…Just left the yard…boss said you’ll have to wait a hour when you get there…so put it on POA for the hour…I know what it means…but how does it work …does it mean if I started at 6am and done a 15 hour day (i should finish 9pm)…does 1 hour POA mean I could finish at 10pm…sorry newbie [zb]
…many thanks
Never work past 15 hours after your start time. POA is a tool to keep your weekly working hours down, it does not count as a break.
E.G. you start work at 9am, you know you have to have a break before 3pm. Putting on POA for an hour does NOT push that time back to 4pm.
However, an hours POA won’t count towards your 60 hours maximum working week or your 48 hour average. Thats how some guys do 60+ hour weeks!
Be aware though, some tachos can reset driving time, but still give you an infringement. Not worked that one out myself yet.
Cavey.
Captain Caveman 76:
Shane129:
Can someone explain in simple terms what POA does…Just left the yard…boss said you’ll have to wait a hour when you get there…so put it on POA for the hour…I know what it means…but how does it work …does it mean if I started at 6am and done a 15 hour day (i should finish 9pm)…does 1 hour POA mean I could finish at 10pm…sorry newbie [zb]
…many thanksNever work past 15 hours after your start time. POA is a tool to keep your weekly working hours down, it does not count as a break.
E.G. you start work at 9am, you know you have to have a break before 3pm. Putting on POA for an hour does NOT push that time back to 4pm.
However, an hours POA won’t count towards your 60 hours maximum working week or your 48 hour average. Thats how some guys do 60+ hour weeks!
Be aware though, some tachos can reset driving time, but still give you an infringement. Not worked that one out myself yet.Cavey.
In your example, poa DOES extend the 6 hr rule to 4 pm.
Breaks and poa do not count towards the wtd.
So it surely does not matter if you use poa or break surely? what’s the difference Between using the two, what do the two do to your information regarding breaks ect
So it surely does not matter if you use poa or break surely? what’s the difference Between using the two, what do the two do to your information regarding breaks ect
I think ash001 is right. If it is genuinely poa then you are entitled to use it as break (or part of it as a break).
Don’t think i’ve understood until now. (not had to as not driving yet.) Does it only have the effect as captain caveman 76 has said. It just keeps you within the 48 hour (or 60 hour average working week)? Really serves no other purpose?
My understanding is if I had to sit there for say an hour and I had driven 2 hours to get there I would put on break for 45 minutes then the last 15 minutes POA. Obviously I am new to this and this is just what I believe is the logical thing to do, please correct me if I am wrong.
You could do it like that…But why not just leave it on break…As has been said…It is just to reduce your 48hr average working week…It can’t be used as part of your break though…Because it is’nt a break…
Yes very true there is no difference between using break and POA lets face it, And if your waiting up for an hour technically you can class that as a break surely because your doing ■■■■ all 
My understanding goes something like this…
You’re a dog.
Start shift = You’ve already woken up, wandered around the living room and checked everything out, probably knocked over a lamp, and finally your owner is up and about and ready to give you instructions.
POA = The ■■■■■■ is making you sit and wait before he feeds you. Git. At least he’s told you how long you have to sit there like a good dog for before you get fed.
Other Work = Scratching at the patio door. You want to go take a dump, but you’ve got to do a whole load of scratching and whining before you can.
Driving = Engage smug-face. You’re going to take a massive dump in the middle of the lawn. Bonus points if it’s articulated.
Break = Phew! That was hard work, have a lay down in front of the fire. Maybe lick your bits, maybe snooze, maybe eat whatever the hell that was you found under the couch.
End shift = You’re worn out from a long day attempting to get outside to ■■■ and, of course, pooing. Your owner is already tucked into bed, now you’re going to wander in circles a while, before falling asleep half way up the stairs.
Seriously though, here is a link with quite a clear explanation: tmscumbria.co.uk/acatalog/WTD_Rules.html
POA, like Break, do not count as ‘working time’. However, the reason that using POA or Break can’t take you over 15hrs ‘shift time’ in a shift is that you have to have no less than 9hrs Daily Rest between shifts in a 24hr period.
Also, this is quite good (in my opinion!): gov.uk/government/uploads/s … al-HGV.pdf
Finally, as far as I understand it, POA can’t count as a ‘Driving/Working Break’ because it can be broken.
POA is a period of availability and legally in order to use POA you should be aware of how long you will be waiting beforehand.
If you get paid for breaks it’s best to use break rather than POA because 45 minutes of POA or a mixture of break and POA equalling 45 minutes will wrongly reset the driving time on a digital tachograph.
Using POA does not mean you can extend the maximum working day, that’s fixed by the daily rest period you need within the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
Because POA does not count as working time it can be used to delay a required WTD break, for instance if you start work at 06:00 you would normally need to start a 15 minute break no later than 12:00 (six hour rule), however if you booked one hour of POA say from 10:00 to 11:00 you could work until 13:00 before needing to start the 15 minute WTD break, obviously this only works if you haven’t reached 4½ hours driving time.
Again, Tachograph give a good clear explanation! 
I knew it (honest! ) But always helps for a Newbie to have it reinforced.
Just like my bumpers need to be! 
tachograph:
POA is a period of availability and legally in order to use POA you should be aware of how long you will be waiting beforehand.
- POA cannot count as break or rest.
- POA does not count towards your working time.
If you get paid for breaks it’s best to use break rather than POA because 45 minutes of POA or a mixture of break and POA equalling 45 minutes will wrongly reset the driving time on a digital tachograph.
Using POA does not mean you can extend the maximum working day, that’s fixed by the daily rest period you need within the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
Because POA does not count as working time it can be used to delay a required WTD break, for instance if you start work at 06:00 you would normally need to start a 15 minute break no later than 12:00 (six hour rule), however if you booked one hour of POA say from 10:00 to 11:00 you could work until 13:00 before needing to start the 15 minute WTD break, obviously this only works if you haven’t reached 4½ hours driving time.
But surely if you have booked an hour’s POA you could have just had a break instead?
ash 001:
tachograph:
POA is a period of availability and legally in order to use POA you should be aware of how long you will be waiting beforehand.
- POA cannot count as break or rest.
- POA does not count towards your working time.
If you get paid for breaks it’s best to use break rather than POA because 45 minutes of POA or a mixture of break and POA equalling 45 minutes will wrongly reset the driving time on a digital tachograph.
Using POA does not mean you can extend the maximum working day, that’s fixed by the daily rest period you need within the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
Because POA does not count as working time it can be used to delay a required WTD break, for instance if you start work at 06:00 you would normally need to start a 15 minute break no later than 12:00 (six hour rule), however if you booked one hour of POA say from 10:00 to 11:00 you could work until 13:00 before needing to start the 15 minute WTD break, obviously this only works if you haven’t reached 4½ hours driving time.
But surely if you have booked an hour’s POA you could have just had a break instead?
There are times when booking a break can mess up your day
ash 001:
But surely if you have booked an hour’s POA you could have just had a break instead?
Absolutely, I was just pointing out how POA does extend the maximum time between breaks.
As Nick has said there are times when you won’t want to reset your driving time.
.
Evil8Beezle:
tachograph:
ash 001:
But surely if you have booked an hour’s POA you could have just had a break instead?Absolutely, I was just pointing out how POA does extend the maximum time between breaks.
As Nick has said there are times when you won’t want to reset your driving time.
For instance, you’re parked on a bay at Some-Company Ltd and are going to be there for another hour, you have one more delivery which is half hour drive away then a drive home of around 4¼ hours.
If you put your tachograph on break while you’re waiting at Some-Company Ltd you won’t get home without another 45 minute driving break, if that takes you over a 15 hour day you won’t get home that night.
I would say it’s usually best to use break if you get paid for them but there are times when you won’t want to reset your driving time so can use other work, or POA if you want to keep your working time hours down.
To make that a little clearer for idiots like me…
When you are sat on the bay at Some-Company Ltd. - For that day (up until sitting on that bay), you had only used 3 hours of driving time. So you have 1.5 hours before you need a 45min break. So if you use POA, you can carry on using that initial block of driving time (to do that last drop), before you take a break, and then do the 4.5 hour drive home.
That’s right, but as you was typing I decided that my original explanation wasn’t too clear and deleted it 
I see so if you use a your full 45 minute break before 4.5 hours of driving time is up you move on to the next block of 4.5 hours driving ?
LOL - Thanks Tachograph, but by the time i posted my addition, you had changed your original post.
So I deleted mine, as i didn’t want to quote you on it!
I’m reading mine again now, and I could have made my bit clearer!
I am now confused guys, it doesn’t take much