A couple of weeks ago I needed to “Depart the legislation” - claiming the Article 12 get out clause of “Unforeseen Circumstance/Event”
Following a chat I had with someone, and some of the comments in this “hours help” thread - I have a question . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Start Mon 0600
Depart legislation and finish 2200
(1 hour over spread)
By the letter of the law, why do I need to take 9 (or 11) hours off ?
The “law” says I have to have, and show, a set amount of hours rest within the 24 hour period.It also says I’m allowed under certain conditions to “depart Articles 6 to 9” (They are the articles relating to hours)
After a good read of the regs, I cannot find anything that states that the usual minimum daily rest has to be taken in the case you cited.
I find this unusal as I would have thought that this situation would have been covered.
Legally, possibly not safely, if a driver was held up by an incident for hours on say, a motorway and then pulled into the next available services but at the point of stopping, had done 20 hours from when they started, then only 4 hours of rest would be required by law.
Me thinks the EU legislation bods missed this one !!
dambuster:
By the letter of the law, why do I need to take 9 (or 11) hours off ?
Because the authorities expect you not to make any gain from running to a safe parking place, you’re also expected not to have any reduction in daily or weekly rest periods by using article 12.
dambuster:
By the letter of the law, why do I need to take 9 (or 11) hours off ?
Because the authorities expect you not to make any gain from running to a safe parking place, you’re also expected not to have any reduction in daily or weekly rest periods by using article 12.
ROG:
Me thinks the EU legislation bods missed this one !!
Me too.
I think article 12 is “unfinished”
It should have . . . “But then you have still have 11 off or a 9 if you’ve got one left” type thing.
It all came about because I brought it up in the office and all I could get from “those that are supposed to know” was some tripe about what "Vosa have said . . . . . . . . " which annoys the crap out of me.
"Vosa have said . . . . . . " is equal to “No extra charge after midnight”
tachograph:
Because the authorities expect you not to make any gain from running to a safe parking place, you’re also expected not to have any reduction in daily or weekly rest periods by using article 12.
(d) the deviation from the driving time rules must not lead to a reduction of the required breaks,
daily and weekly rest.
But I wouldn’t be making a “gain” unless I started the following day earlier than I would have done without the unforeseen event taking place.
I’m not suggesting for one minute that the “get out clause” give carte blanche to ignore the regs, but they don’t say that I have to “increase” either.
I perhaps wasn’t clear enough in my opening post. Try this . . . . . . . .
Start 0600
Depart legislation and finish 2200 (1 hour over spread)
I would say I can (legally) start at 0600 the next day. I haven’t gained, I’ve merely come back on track, as it were.
The actual Regulation 561/2006 lays down the numbers. (11 hours within 24 of staring) Then allows the departure. It doesn’t mention any follow-on requirements. It leaves that to the Guidance notes, and in particular, guidance for Enforcers
ROG:
Is that only in the 561/2006 regs as I could not find it in the VOSA regs
I doubt it’s in the VOSA booklet, but there is a link in the quote ROG
All it says in the VOSA book is -
Unforeseen events
Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping
place, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safety of persons, the vehicle or its load. Drivers must note all the reasons for doing so on the back of their tachograph record sheets (if using an analogue tachograph) or on a printout or temporary sheet (if using a digital tachograph) at the latest on reaching the suitable stopping place (see relevant sections covering manual entries). Repeated and regular occurrences, however, might indicate to enforcement officers that employers were not in fact scheduling work to enable compliance with the applicable rules.
A judgment by the European Court of Justice dated 9 November 1995 provides a useful guide to how this provision should be interpreted. It can apply only in cases where it unexpectedly becomes impossible to comply with the rules on drivers’ hours during the course of a journey. In other words, planned breaches of the rules are not allowed. This means that when an unforeseen event occurs, it would be for the driver to decide whether it was necessary to depart from the rules. In doing so, a driver would have to take into account the need to ensure road safety in the process (e.g. when driving a vehicle carrying an abnormal load under the Special Types regulations) and any instruction that may be given by an enforcement officer (e.g. when under police ■■■■■■).
Some examples of such events are delays caused by severe weather, road traffic accidents, mechanical breakdowns, interruptions of ferry services and any event that causes or is likely to cause danger to the life or health of people or animals. Note that this concession only allows for drivers to reach a suitable stopping place, not necessarily to complete their planned journey. Drivers and operators would be expected to reschedule any disrupted work to remain in compliance with the EU rules.
dambuster:
A couple of weeks ago I needed to “Depart the legislation” - claiming the Article 12 get out clause of “Unforeseen Circumstance/Event”
just out of curiosity what was the event and what time did it start and at and time jurying the event was there some where you could have stooped within you time
dambuster:
The actual Regulation 561/2006 lays down the numbers. (11 hours within 24 of staring) Then allows the departure. It doesn’t mention any follow-on requirements.
The guidance notes say clearly that "the deviation from the driving time rules must not lead to a reduction of the required breaks,daily and weekly rest.
A “Daily rest period” is not the 11 or 9 hour rest period taken within the 24 hour period from the start of shift.
A regular daily rest period is defined as any period of rest of at least 11 hours.
The (EC) No 561/2006 requirement is for you to have this daily rest within the 24 hour period, so any part of the 11/9 hours rest that doesn’t fall within the 24 hour period won’t count for the required (EC) No 561/2006 daily rest period, however the guidance notes say that the deviation from the rules doesn’t mean you don’t need the daily rest ie: 11/9 hours rest.
This may only be a guidance note but personally I see no reason to disregard it, well not too often anyway as you can only get away with pleading ignorance for so long
Hope this makes sense
edit: The VOSA booklet is itself a guide to the regulations and it says somewhere that you should refer to the appropriate regulations, in this case those regulations are the (EC) No 561/2006 regs.
tachograph:
edit: The VOSA booklet is itself a guide to the regulations and it says somewhere that you should refer to the appropriate regulations, in this case those regulations are the (EC) No 561/2006 regs.
Next time I’ll look in the ‘proper’ regs - lesson learned
there is only one time that you divert from the regs with regard rest and that’s when you are accompanying a vehicle that is being transported by ferry or train going on and coming off the ferry
delboytwo:
there is only one time that you divert from the regs with regard rest and that’s when you are accompanying a vehicle that is being transported by ferry or train going on and coming off the ferry
if i am wrong i am sure some one will say
You’re required to have the full 11 ■■■■■■■■■ hours rest even then Del.
But you can of course split it for the purpose of going on/off the train/ferry as long as you have access to a bunk or couchette during the train/ferry journey.
dambuster:
The actual Regulation 561/2006 lays down the numbers. (11 hours within 24 of staring) Then allows the departure. It doesn’t mention any follow-on requirements.
A “Daily rest period” is not the 11 or 9 hour rest period taken within the 24 hour period from the start of shift.
A regular daily rest period is defined as any period of rest of at least 11 hours.
Aahh - That might be the answer.
More reading.
Remember . . . . . . I did call the thread “Nit picking”
delboytwo:
there is only one time that you divert from the regs with regard rest and that’s when you are accompanying a vehicle that is being transported by ferry or train going on and coming off the ferry
if i am wrong i am sure some one will say
You’re required to have the full 11 ■■■■■■■■■ hours rest even then Del.
But you can of course split it for the purpose of going on/off the train/ferry as long as you have access to a bunk or couchette during the train/ferry journey.
yes i know that bit mate, what i was trying to say is this is the only time that you could divert from a rest
tachograph:
A regular daily rest period is defined as any period of rest of at least 11 hours.
Where can I find - in the actual legislation - that definition of a “daily rest period”
Because, as you said . . . .
tachograph:
edit: The VOSA booklet is itself a guide to the regulations and it says somewhere that you should refer to the appropriate regulations, in this case those regulations are the (EC) No 561/2006 regs.
*Disclaimer This is not about who - amongst us - is right or wrong. it’s about having a very clear understanding of a grey area
(f) ‘rest’ means any uninterrupted period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time;
(g) ‘daily rest period’ means the daily period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time and covers a ‘regular
daily rest period’ and a ‘reduced daily rest period’:
– ‘regular daily rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,
– ‘reduced daily rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least nine hours but less than 11 hours;
(h) ‘weekly rest period’ means the weekly period during
which a driver may freely dispose of his time and covers
a ‘regular weekly rest period’ and a ‘reduced weekly rest
period’:
– ‘regular weekly rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least 45 hours,
– ‘reduced weekly rest period’ means any period of
rest of less than 45 hours, which may, subject to the
conditions laid down in Article 8(6), be shortened
to a minimum of 24 consecutive hours;
(g) ‘daily rest period’ means the daily period during which a driver may freely dispose of his time and covers a ‘regular daily rest period’ and a ‘reduced daily rest period’:
– ‘regular daily rest period’ means any period of rest of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3 hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at least nine hours, – ‘reduced daily rest period’ means any period of rest of at least nine hours but less than 11 hours;
delboytwo:
. . . . . . . . . . . . what i was trying to say is this is the only time that you could divert from a rest
I’d agree that you’d be right to say it’s the only time you could plan to interrupt a rest period, but as the thread is about nit picking - I’m talking about departing the legislation due to unforeseen circumstance.
