hi there, my boss has recently put me on nights which i was promised 3 months ago .the job was hull -ellesmere port tip back mt ,8 hours work paid for 11 hours the first week sound. now he,s moved the goal posts he wants me to start @ 23.00-midnight &do a couple of back loads last week i did this & ended up doing 14 hours 23.00 start 13.00 finish i was tired v.tired purely becouse of the hours im working i thought there was some kind of law saying your not allowed to work no more than 10 hours on a night job my boss says its fine dont worry about it ? 
can anyone enlighting me on this thanks 
If there is a workforce agreement in place then you can work more than 10 hours
If no such agreement then it is 10 hours maximum working time (driving & other work)
gorby1:
hi there, my boss has recently put me on nights which i was promised 3 months ago .the job was hull -ellesmere port tip back mt ,8 hours work paid for 11 hours the first week sound. now he,s moved the goal posts he wants me to start @ 23.00-midnight &do a couple of back loads last week i did this & ended up doing 14 hours 23.00 start 13.00 finish i was tired v.tired purely becouse of the hours im working i thought there was some kind of law saying your not allowed to work no more than 10 hours on a night job my boss says its fine dont worry about it ?
In my 15 years of nights I never heard of any 10 hour rule.It was just the usual hours regs.Together with limiters they are a pain.I know from experience that even 11 hours a night in total including just a 45 minute break between up to 9 hours of driving and with other duties it can be tiring.But it’s legal and it’s all usually expected as part of the job.
ROG:
If there is a workforce agreement in place then you can work more than 10 hoursIf no such agreement then it is 10 hours maximum working time (driving & other work)
That sounds like something new Rog?.That would’nt leave much time for vehicle and load checks and securing the load etc. if you’re driving up to your hours and changing trailers or tipping and loading a couple of times or more per shift?.
Carryfast:
ROG:
If there is a workforce agreement in place then you can work more than 10 hoursIf no such agreement then it is 10 hours maximum working time (driving & other work)
That sounds like something new Rog?.That would’nt leave much time for vehicle and load checks and securing the load etc. if you’re driving up to your hours and changing trailers or tipping and loading a couple of times or more per shift?.
here the RTD(WTD) on the 10 night rule
Guidance on the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
- Working at Night
4.1 Main Points
- Night time is between midnight and 4am for goods vehicles and 1am and 5am for passenger
vehicles.- If night work is performed, the daily working time should not exceed 10 hours in the 24 hour
period in question.- If a mobile worker does any work during the night time period, he/she will be subject to the
night work limit.- The night work limit can only be exceeded where this is permitted by a relevant agreement
(see Section 7.1 - “relevant agreements”).
Employer’s Check:- Identify the mobile workers who are likely to be affected by the limits on night work.
- If more than ten hours working time is normally performed (during a 24 hour period) consider
whether the number of hours can be reduced.- If necessary, consult your workforce about the possibility of working longer hours under a
relevant agreement (see Section 7.1 - “relevant agreements”)
4.2 What is night time?
Night time is the period between midnight and 4am for drivers and other mobile workers on
goods vehicles and 1am and 5am for those on passenger services. Employers and workers
cannot choose a different period.
If a mobile worker does any work during the night time period, they will be subject to the
night work limit. The night work limit can only be exceeded where this is permitted in a
relevant agreement - (see Section 7.1 - “relevant agreements”).
4.3 What is the working time limit for night work?
Unless you have a relevant agreement, workers are limited to 10 hours work (i.e. working
time) over the 24 hour period. As with the other working time limits under this legislation,
breaks and periods of availability are not included in the 10 hour limit.
The 24 hour period is very important, and should not be confused with 10 hours night work
per day. This prevents a worker starting slightly earlier on the following day, unless they did
less than 10 hours work on the previous day.
When a mobile worker performs night work on a number of consecutive days, the start time
reference point for each consecutive 24 hour period is the time at which the mobile worker
started work on the first day. This start time reference point would cease to be used when a
mobile worker does not perform any night work during two consecutive 24 hour periods.
For example if a mobile worker performed night work on a Monday and Tuesday, and started
work on the Monday at 01:00 hours, then the 24 hour period over which the 10 hour limit is
calculated would start at 01:00 hours on both days. If the mobile worker did not carry out anyGuidance on the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
night work during the next 48 hours (i.e. the Wednesday and Thursday), then on the Friday
the 24 hour period could start at 02:00 hours rather than 01:00 hours.
As ROG said without a workforce agreement in place you can’t legally work over 10 hours in the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
So how does this work in the real world?
If the driver refuses to work the hours required he gets the sack. If he’s willing but VOSA get involved, the driver and employer only need say they have an agreement.
I’m not trying to make a point, just asking a question. Over the last two weeks I only worked three days that started after 4am. Most of the days worked amounted to 13/15hr spreads. I just got on with it, did what was required and parked up when all was finished.
enit?:
So how does this work in the real world?
If the driver refuses to work the hours required he gets the sack. If he’s willing but VOSA get involved, the driver and employer only need say they have an agreement.I’m not trying to make a point, just asking a question. Over the last two weeks I only worked three days that started after 4am. Most of the days worked amounted to 13/15hr spreads. I just got on with it, did what was required and parked up when all was finished.
As we all know if an employer wants to get rid of you they will usually find a way, however as with most things the EUreaucrats come up with it’s not as easy as saying you have an agreement it has to have been voted in by the elected representatives of the workforce, it also has to be renewed every 5 years to be legal.
See here for how the workforce or collective agreements should be put into place.
To be honest I doubt many people really give a [zb] about most parts of the WTD except when it suits them, and why should they ? 
enit?:
So how does this work in the real world?
If the driver refuses to work the hours required he gets the sack. If he’s willing but VOSA get involved, the driver and employer only need say they have an agreement.I’m not trying to make a point, just asking a question. Over the last two weeks I only worked three days that started after 4am. Most of the days worked amounted to 13/15hr spreads. I just got on with it, did what was required and parked up when all was finished.
Those long spreadovers are fine just so long as you can give the extra hours back later with longer daily rest periods but the problem comes when the guvnor starts making them a regular thing.I was gobsmacked by that WTD and having not worked since 1999 it’s not surprising that it all seems like a different planet to me.So in addition to having an effective 50 mph speed limit in what is really a 60 mph limit we’ve now got an effective 14 hour daily rest requirement at all times on night trunking regardless of what the hours regs really are.However unlike the WTD we can’t come to an agreement with the guvnor and VOSA to drive at 60 mph on a British motorway.
Carryfast:
So in addition to having an effective 50 mph speed limit in what is really a 60 mph limit we’ve now got an effective 14 hour daily rest requirement at all times on night trunking regardless of what the hours regs really are.
Errrr no, the 10hr limit is only for ‘work’ ie driving and ‘other work’ add in breaks and poa then you could still do a 15hr shift…and in any case many firms opt out anyway.
Carryfast:
However unlike the WTD we can’t come to an agreement with the guvnor and VOSA to drive at 60 mph on a British motorway.
That would depend if the EU legislation allowed for individual governments to alter the limiter regs for domestic purposes - I don’t think the EU regs allow such but I stand to be corrected.
If I am correct then the only course of action for a limiter regs change would be to direct any gripes directly to the EU Parliament
map-man:
Carryfast:
So in addition to having an effective 50 mph speed limit in what is really a 60 mph limit we’ve now got an effective 13 and a quarter hour daily rest requirement at all times on night trunking regardless of what the hours regs really are.
Errrr no, the 10hr limit is only for ‘work’ ie driving and ‘other work’ add in breaks and poa then you could still do a 15hr shift…and in any case many firms opt out anyway.[/quot
I did get the maths slightly out because it should have been a 10 hour shift plus a 45 minute rest period in the middle assuming that the shift needed 9 hours of long distance driving which then would have been an effective daily rest period of 13 and a quarter hours?.But I could’nt understand how/why add any hours to that total 10 and three quarter hour shift in more breaks +■■.I’ll probably understand it all in the end though.I’m just waiting for someone now to say that it’s not 45 minutes off after 4 and a half hours of driving any more and that they’ve changed the regs on that too.But it seems difficult to understand how you could do a night trunk which would involve the legal limit on driving hours plus all the other work usually required with that within the 10 hour WTD and if everyone can opt out why bother with it anyway?.
ROG:
Carryfast:
However unlike the WTD we can’t come to an agreement with the guvnor and VOSA to drive at 60 mph on a British motorway.That would depend if the EU legislation allowed for individual governments to alter the limiter regs for domestic purposes - I don’t think the EU regs allow such but I stand to be corrected.
If I am correct then the only course of action for a limiter regs change would be to direct any gripes directly to the EU Parliament
That’s an intersting thought Rog.If they allow for different weights within different EU states then why not speed limiter settings to comply with local speed limits?.The Italians,Dutch and Swedes seem to be able to set their own weight limits so what’s the big problem with limiters?.I reckon it’s just British back door legislation dressed up to look like EU regs.As the Romans said who gains from this.You guessed it rail freight.
My GUESS would be that a LOWER limiter setting would be allowed in the EU regs for a member country but not a higher one.
I think most EU regs allow for things to be done BELOW a set level but not higher as each member country might have stricter safety limits or roads that cannot take the maximum weights listed in the regs
ROG:
My GUESS would be that a LOWER limiter setting would be allowed in the EU regs for a member country but not a higher one.I think most EU regs allow for things to be done BELOW a set level but not higher as each member country might have stricter safety limits or roads that cannot take the maximum weights listed in the regs
But we’ve got a higher domestic speed limit on our motorways for trucks than most/all other EU states.The Swedes and the Dutch have got higher domestic weight limits than most/all other EU states.So why is it that the weight issue is’nt a problem for Swedish and Dutch operators working in their own country but the speed issue is a problem for us working in ours?.
Carryfast:
Swedes and the Dutch have got higher domestic weight limits than most/all other EU states.So why is it that the weight issue is’nt a problem for Swedish and Dutch operators working in their own country but the speed issue is a problem for us working in ours?.
Are those counties working within the maximum limits set by the EU Parliament 
ROG:
Carryfast:
Swedes and the Dutch have got higher domestic weight limits than most/all other EU states.So why is it that the weight issue is’nt a problem for Swedish and Dutch operators working in their own country but the speed issue is a problem for us working in ours?.Are those counties working within the maximum limits set by the EU Parliament
Good question but the Swedish 60 Tonne weight limits came in at around or just after the introduction of speed limiters here?.I don’t remember having seen anything which said that the Swedish weight increase from around 50+ tonnes to 60 had anything whatsoever to do with any Euro maximum allowed as even Europe could’nt have foreseen what Sweden’s government was doing and I’m not even sure that Sweden was even in th EU when it went to 60 Tonners.The question remains as to the anomaly between the British motorway speed limit for trucks and the 53 mph limiter setting and assuming that the Euro weight limit is set at the highest state weight limit for Swedish trucks why not speed limiters for British ones?.
Most limiters are set to 56mph, giving a 4mph cushion if you are going downhill, should give you enough time to brake.
Carryfast:
ROG:
If there is a workforce agreement in place then you can work more than 10 hoursIf no such agreement then it is 10 hours maximum working time (driving & other work)
That sounds like something new Rog?.
New if you call FOUR AND A HALF YEARS its been in force as new.
Silver_Surfer:
Most limiters are set to 56mph, giving a 4mph cushion if you are going downhill, should give you enough time to brake.
There’s a big difference between what should be a running speed limit on the flat of 60 mph and one of 56 mph or 53 mph which they are setting them at on most wagons to keep them under 56 not 60 and even without speed limiters there was never much of a problem .It’s the driver’s job to keep the downhill speeds right not the limiter.