Newbie after some advice....

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi all,I’m Tom, I’ve been hanging round this forum for a while and I have to say it definitely helped me pass my test, so a big thank you to everyone on here.I passed my C test a few weeks back, and also the cpc case studies, I still have the cpc practical test next week though…

I seem to not be able to get my head round a few things (embarrassingly)
The first is driver hours? I’m reading the DSA guide to driving goods vehicles etc it seems to have the drivers hours bit explained, but I am having difficulty getting my head round it, are there any books, websites that explain it a little more dumbed down? :blush:

The second and this may sound a little stupid, is the loading of certain types of materials etc and restraints, As in which particular type of load is loaded at different positions in the vehicle? (Front, back or middle) and things like cylindrical loads, if anyone could help me understand this, I would very much appreciate it as I no the cpc practical requires answering of loads etc.

Thanks Tom

2

Hi
As a new ish driver I know what it is like drivers hours are straight forward to a point it’s when you add working time directive in as well it gets complicated driving hours are 4.5hr of driving you must take 45mins break this can be 15mins first and 30mins or just 45mins you can only drive 9hours a day but this can be extended to 10hours but remember you must take 45mins after every 4.5 hours.

Working time is as follows 1st 6hours of work (work and driving) you must take 30mins this can be broken down to two 15mins or just one 30min break after that every 3hours of work you must take 15mins. Remember your driving break can be as well as your wtd break and it doesn’t have to be as well as which ever is 1st.

Hope this helps

As regards to load restraints my advise is for you to do your mod 4 and if your teacher is any good he will advise accordingly. Your employer will provide the correct restraints try to avoid ropes as anything that can be roped can be ratcheted. Chains are for heavy loads like drums of cables or sheets of steal ect

Get the Haynes truckers hand book and or the rha drivers guide but above all ask your employer if your not sure when you get a job as health and safety states they must give you an induction and this includes showing you how to use taillifts and curtains or load restraints. Even experienced drivers in a new job ask for advice or help when they have never used something don’t be put off by someone throwing the keys at you and saying get on with it say no can you just show me the keys as I have never driven this vehicle or I have never used this tail lift before can you show me the operation of it. I have my hiab and the different types of controls from make and model are different so just ask.

Hope this helps

3

Here’s a link to the VOSA site for tacho rules:

dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/R … Europe.pdf

4

I seem to not be able to get my head round a few things (embarrassingly)
The first is driver hours?

drivergraham:
Working time is as follows 1st 6hours of work (work and driving) you must take 30mins this can be broken down to two 15mins or just one 30min break after that every 3hours of work you must take 15mins.

The problem with the internet is that some members try to help but do not get it quite right = me included :blush:
The good thing is that the answers are given on a public forum so can be corrected :smiley:

Apart from the EU drivers hours rules on driving time breaks there is also the breaks required for the RTD or lorry driver WTD if you like

The RTD runs alongside the EU tacho regs and breaks can count for both but the driving time tacho break rules take precidence

The RTD refers to working time which means the time spent driving or doing other work
It does not refer to time taken as POA or break
Driving + other work is added together to give the working time or work
It is common to do a very long shift where only perhaps 70% of that shift is working time

Breaks for the RTD are as follows -
At no point in a shift can a driver work longer than 6 hours without a break
Breaks must be at least 15 mins
That means a driver can work 6 hours and take a break of 15 mins

Depending on the total amount of working time done in a shift then one (not both) of these two rules will apply
If the working time in a shift is between 6 and 9 hours then breaks totalling 30 mins must be taken - that can be 2 x 15 mins
OR
If the working time in a shift is over 9 hours then breaks totalling 45 mins must be taken - that can be 3 x 15 mins or any combination that adds up to 45 mins providing they are at least 15 mins each

In most cases the breaks for the tacho regs driving hours will kick in first and cover the RTD break requirements

Although the authorities do not seem bothered about the RTD there are many companies which are so be careful
One of the most common catches is going over the 6 hours working time rule on the back end of a shift

There is more to the RTD such as the average 48 hour a week working time rule, the max 60 hours a week working time rule, holliday rules etc but the driver does not need to worry about those because they are sorted by company computers - if they can be bothered to do so…

Tacho driving rules cannot really be dumbed down as doing so often leads to them meaning something other than what is intended but if after reading the links at the end of this post you are still having trouble then do not hesitate to ask specific questions about them on this site

There wil be some on here who will say that you need to go back for more training etc etc but ignore them because it is not your fault that the dumb nuts in the EU have not designed a better system for newbies such as making the initial driver cpc module 2 theory test into a a drivers hours test instead of the numbing senario test it currently is

Here are the links -

EU regs
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF

VOSA take on the EU regs
businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … 1111_3.pdf

Happy reading :smiley:

PS - do not be embarrassed as we all had to start somewhere

5

I think I’ve done OK with the rules in my first week, but slipped up slightly on Thursday as I was about quarter of an hour late taking a 15 minute break for being on duty 6 hours (card went in at 0545, and I’d only done about 3 hours of driving, but I didn’t have a break til midday). I then had to stop for 30 mins an hour and a bit later as I was getting close to 4.5 hours driving. It’s a bit confusing, and made more difficult for me as some days I have a lot of other work time and not much driving so I have to make an effort to remember the RTD rules!

Incidentally, can the first 15 min break be taken at any point in the first six hours? Could I, for example, have 15 mins when I get to my first collection after only being on duty for an hour or two? And then take a second 15 at any point between 6 hours and 9 hours if I’m not driving for more than 4.5 hours?
If I knew I wasn’t going to be driving more than 4.5 hours, and not working for longer than 9 hours, would I be able to take 30 mins in one block at the six-hour point? These are the things that I’m a little bit unsure of - when I can take the breaks and how I can split them/use them to my best advantage…

6

just to add a bit of confusion :slight_smile:

I often start my shift to find my truck sitting on the bay to be loaded. I can be waiting for up to a couple of hours. this will be recorded as POA or other work depending on what I’m doing. I will sometimes clock a 15 break in that time. that is fine for the RTD but DOES NOT count towards my tacho break as I haven’t driven. if you only drive 5 mins it would count toward the tacho break but if you haven’t moved the truck yet and no driving period has began it won’t count towards your 45.

I only mention it because it has caught others out, they’ve drove 4.5 and took 30 then carried on. none of them got done over it, but there’s always a first time.

7

kevchalluk:
I think I’ve done OK with the rules in my first week, but slipped up slightly on Thursday as I was about quarter of an hour late taking a 15 minute break for being on duty 6 hours (card went in at 0545, and I’d only done about 3 hours of driving, but I didn’t have a break til midday). I then had to stop for 30 mins an hour and a bit later as I was getting close to 4.5 hours driving. It’s a bit confusing, and made more difficult for me as some days I have a lot of other work time and not much driving so I have to make an effort to remember the RTD rules!

Incidentally, can the first 15 min break be taken at any point in the first six hours? Could I, for example, have 15 mins when I get to my first collection after only being on duty for an hour or two? And then take a second 15 at any point between 6 hours and 9 hours if I’m not driving for more than 4.5 hours?
If I knew I wasn’t going to be driving more than 4.5 hours, and not working for longer than 9 hours, would I be able to take 30 mins in one block at the six-hour point? These are the things that I’m a little bit unsure of - when I can take the breaks and how I can split them/use them to my best advantage…

If 0545 to 1200 was all driving + other work then you were 15 mins late in taking the break

A break can be taken at any time - the simple rule is that at no point during the shift must there be more than 6 hours of driving + other work without taking at least a 15 min break

Its like a break for driving time - that 45 mins does not have to be taken at 4.5 hours driving time - the rules for that are similar where it states that no more than 4.5 hours driving can be done with at least a 45 min break

8

jbaz73:
just to add a bit of confusion :slight_smile:

I often start my shift to find my truck sitting on the bay to be loaded. I can be waiting for up to a couple of hours. this will be recorded as POA or other work depending on what I’m doing. I will sometimes clock a 15 break in that time. that is fine for the RTD but DOES NOT count towards my tacho break as I haven’t driven. if you only drive 5 mins it would count toward the tacho break but if you haven’t moved the truck yet and no driving period has began it won’t count towards your 45.

I only mention it because it has caught others out, they’ve drove 4.5 and took 30 then carried on. none of them got done over it, but there’s always a first time.

After that 15 min break you will then have 6 hours of work available before the next is due so it did not help with that rule
It will help with the overall RTD break requirement but the tacho driving breaks will usually cover that requirement

9

ROG:
If 0545 to 1200 was all driving + other work then you were 15 mins late in taking the break

A break can be taken at any time - the simple rule is that at no point during the shift must there be more than 6 hours of driving + other work without taking at least a 15 min break

Its like a break for driving time - that 45 mins does not have to be taken at 4.5 hours driving time - the rules for that are similar where it states that no more than 4.5 hours driving can be done with at least a 45 min break

yes it was all driving + other work - I’d just finished my final collection when I realised the time (didn’t have my watch on, which was an error on my part!). Stuck it on break as soon as I got in the cab and waited 15 mins before leaving the place.

I know the 45 doesn’t have to be taken at 4.5 hours, but I suppose it depends on if you need to maximise your driving time? I generally don’t do much more than 5/6 hours driving in a 10-12 hour shift, so I can take my breaks whenever really - it’s remembering that pesky 15 mins at the moment that’s catching me out, so may well try to get into the habit of taking it earlier rather than pushing it to 6 hours!

10

You might be better to take a 15 about 10am and then 30 at about 4 hours driving time

just watch out for the back 6 working hours after that 30 min break

11

so if I start at 6am and take 15 mins at 10am and then another 30 mins at noon after I’ve done four hours of driving, if I don’t finish work til 6pm I’d need another 15 mins to cover the noon-6pm section? so an hour’s breaks in total? If I finish at 5.45pm, I’d be OK with the 45 mins I’ve already taken?

12

kevchalluk:
so if I start at 6am and take 15 mins at 10am and then another 30 mins at noon after I’ve done four hours of driving, if I don’t finish work til 6pm I’d need another 15 mins to cover the noon-6pm section? so an hour’s breaks in total? If I finish at 5.45pm, I’d be OK with the 45 mins I’ve already taken?

noon to 6pm is not OVER 6 hours so no break required but its a bit tight so perhaps take the 30 nearer to 1230 if possible

13

since the RTD was introduced there doesn’t seem to be much enforcement of it. some not all drivers and companies treat it as an optional extra. some don’t know anything about at all, some choose to ignore it. I’m not casting any aspersions, that’s not my intention. but I wondered what the potential penalty is for breaking the rules?

sorry to derail the thread :slight_smile: curiousity got the better of me :slight_smile:

14

Cheers Rog. All hypotheticals of course, and I think I’m doing OK at getting my head around it - just annoyed that I forgot the 15 mins on Thursday but not to worry!

15

Wow, thanks for all the detailed info guys, it’s very much appreciated! Wasn’t expecting so much feedback! I now understand things a bit better, it makes things a little easier for me.
Just to let you know, if your interested, I did pass my final part (mod 4) cpc today, so it’s a big relief now that I’ve completed all the tests.

But again a big thanks to everyone for helping me understand these points :smiley:

Tom

16

Well done passing your Mod4. Now go out there and get yourself some work, make use of that shiny new category :slight_smile:

You will find that once you start driving lorries, you will pick up the hours regulations easier in practice.

17

Cheers mate, yeh I was kinda hoping that, lol, can’t beat experience! :smiley:

18

ROG:
The problem with the internet is that some members try to help but do not get it quite right = me included :blush:
The good thing is that the answers are given on a public forum so can be corrected :smiley:

Apart from the EU drivers hours rules on driving time breaks there is also the breaks required for the RTD or lorry driver WTD if you like

The RTD runs alongside the EU tacho regs and breaks can count for both but the driving time tacho break rules take precidence

The RTD refers to working time which means the time spent driving or doing other work
It does not refer to time taken as POA or break
Driving + other work is added together to give the working time or work
It is common to do a very long shift where only perhaps 70% of that shift is working time

Breaks for the RTD are as follows -
At no point in a shift can a driver work longer than 6 hours without a break
Breaks must be at least 15 mins
That means a driver can work 6 hours and take a break of 15 mins

Depending on the total amount of working time done in a shift then one (not both) of these two rules will apply
If the working time in a shift is between 6 and 9 hours then breaks totalling 30 mins must be taken - that can be 2 x 15 mins
OR
If the working time in a shift is over 9 hours then breaks totalling 45 mins must be taken - that can be 3 x 15 mins or any combination that adds up to 45 mins providing they are at least 15 mins each

In most cases the breaks for the tacho regs driving hours will kick in first and cover the RTD break requirements

Although the authorities do not seem bothered about the RTD there are many companies which are so be careful
One of the most common catches is going over the 6 hours working time rule on the back end of a shift

Sorry to bring this back up, but I’m still not sure I’m doing my breaks correctly. I’ve not been told by anyone at work that I’m in the wrong, but I’m not sure if my interpretation of the RTD is correct and if I should be taking 15 mins or 30 mins after 6 hours of duty time? The 45 min tacho break doesn’t usually kick in early enough to take care of the RTD break, so I have to split my break.

My days tend to pan out a bit like this, so is what I’m doing correct?

Start work at 5.30am and do a mixture of driving and other work, taking a 15 minute break at about 11am
Do another couple of hours of driving and other work, then take 30 minutes as I’m now nearing 4.5 hours of driving time
Another couple of hours driving back to the yard, then usually POA or other work while I’m being unloaded
Finish shift at about 4pm

My confusion stems from reading things like this, which says I should be taking 30 mins break (in one go, or two 15s) after no later than 6 hours of driving/other work:

driverhours.co.uk/road-transport-directive/

If I do need to take 30 mins to cover RTD breaks, and I’m not able to split my 45 minute tacho break 30-15, what do I do when I get to 4.5 hours driving if I’ve already had half an hour?

19

I’ve just read your link. It says that working 6-9 hours requires 30 minutes (which can be taken as 2 15s)

Everything else you said looked fine.

20

Start work at 5.30am and do a mixture of driving and other work, taking a 15 minute break at about 11am
Do another couple of hours of driving and other work, then take 30 minutes as I’m now nearing 4.5 hours of driving time
Another couple of hours driving back to the yard, then usually POA or other work while I’m being unloaded
Finish shift at about 4pm

Legal for RTD & driving time breaks :smiley: