There’s changes going on at work which also means a new work contract of T&C’s
I would gain more hourly pay ,holiday and full sick pay but would lose the 1.5 x OT rate and the Sunday double pay
Also there’s a pay review in June
Or we can stay on old contract but only SSP @£94 week and 28days holiday and current hourly rate
Thoughts guys
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
There’s changes going on at work which also means a new work contract of T&C’s
I would gain more hourly pay ,holiday and full sick pay but would lose the 1.5 x OT rate and the Sunday double pay
Also there’s a pay review in June
Or we can stay on old contract but only SSP @£94 week and 28days holiday and current hourly rate
Thoughts guysSent from my truck
I’d be asking WHY they are doing this, the cynic in me tells me you are better off the old way otherwise they would not want to change it.
You will need to do the sums, but these firms never come up with these schemes to do YOU any favours, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which usually benefits THEM. 
robroy:
blue estate:
There’s changes going on at work which also means a new work contract of T&C’s
I would gain more hourly pay ,holiday and full sick pay but would lose the 1.5 x OT rate and the Sunday double pay
Also there’s a pay review in June
Or we can stay on old contract but only SSP @£94 week and 28days holiday and current hourly rate
Thoughts guysSent from my truck
I’d be asking WHY they are doing this, the cynic in me tells me you are better off the old way otherwise they would not want to change it.
You will need to do the sums, but these firms never come up with these schemes to do YOU any favours, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which usually benefits THEM.
Rob I’ve PM’d you
And yes I will scrutinise it fully
Sent while from gods know where
All you can do is calculate what the differences mean to you personally, we assume at this moment that the decisions to stay on old conrtract or shift to new are individual and not collective.
Few thoughts to factor in to your calcs.
Will they likely move to a different shift pattern meaning you work more weekends but possibly fewer hours overall.
Are they going to employ more drivers on a shift basis ie 4 on 4 off, or worse 5 on 3 off, or the pits any 5 from 7.
Once you have two or more tier pay schemes they could easily starve those on the old scheme of weekend work and overtime, conversely punishing those on the new scheme by giving them weekend shifts and more hours but on the cheap.
Full sick pay is a funny one, this usually goes with salaried schemes (will it be full average pay or basic pay), personally i never take time off sick (fingers crossed long may that continue) but there’s a ■■■■■■■■■ on every job who take the ■■■■, means those who are more reliable have to take on the workload of the sick notes.
If you arn’t a sick note i’d be more inclined to try and get others to agree and see if you can’t negotiate an attendance bonus instead, this would be better both for the company and for those who don’t milk the sick scheme, ie it benefits more people, arguably more deserving people and the company benefits too once its explained to them (they can be reluctant to see this because they initially see it as paying you twice to come to work), i’ve seen sick schemes taken the ■■■■ out of to ridiculous levels resulting in being part of the reasons the job ends.
Review in June suggests to me they’ll be shifting some more goal posts around, is the decision you make binding, ie if you decide to stay on the old does that mean the new scheme is denied to you, i doubt they’d let you transfer back but they might let you delay going for the new till after the review.
robroy:
I’d be asking WHY they are doing this, the cynic in me tells me you are better off the old way otherwise they would not want to change it.
You will need to do the sums, but these firms never come up with these schemes to do YOU any favours, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which usually benefits THEM.
I think that for some companies there’s finally a realisation that the tap of endless Eastern European drivers has been switched off and the only drivers available for hiring when they need to expand their fleet or to replace those retiring are those who are here now with a licence. The even more forward thinking ones are looking at their drivers, realising there’s a lot of grey hair, at some point they’ll be retiring so with few entering the job they’d better get training some.
You would have to do the sums but a few years ago I worked for a large firm that wanted to stop paying for breaks. In order to soften the blow they upped our hourly rate by a generous measure. Of course everybody was happy because the new hourly rate over 8 hours was way more than the deduction for break. Then we never saw a wage rise for 6 years so in fact we are worse off the sly buggres.
Conor:
robroy:
I’d be asking WHY they are doing this, the cynic in me tells me you are better off the old way otherwise they would not want to change it.
You will need to do the sums, but these firms never come up with these schemes to do YOU any favours, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which usually benefits THEM.I think that for some companies there’s finally a realisation that the tap of endless Eastern European drivers has been switched off and the only drivers available for hiring when they need to expand their fleet or to replace those retiring are those who are here now with a licence. The even more forward thinking ones are looking at their drivers, realising there’s a lot of grey hair, at some point they’ll be retiring so with few entering the job they’d better get training some.
Out of all our Artic drivers I’m joint second youngest with one other at 45 and youngest one is 41
Then there’s a 2 year gap to the next driver at 47
Most are in their 50’s and one is in he’s 60s
Sent from my truck
msgyorkie:
You would have to do the sums but a few years ago I worked for a large firm that wanted to stop paying for breaks. In order to soften the blow they upped our hourly rate by a generous measure. Of course everybody was happy because the new hourly rate over 8 hours was way more than the deduction for break. Then we never saw a wage rise for 6 years so in fact we are worse off the sly buggres.
I think you’ll be right on the ones who don’t take the new contract that they’ll be starved out as you say
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
robroy:
blue estate:
There’s changes going on at work which also means a new work contract of T&C’s
I would gain more hourly pay ,holiday and full sick pay but would lose the 1.5 x OT rate and the Sunday double pay
Also there’s a pay review in June
Or we can stay on old contract but only SSP @£94 week and 28days holiday and current hourly rate
Thoughts guysSent from my truck
I’d be asking WHY they are doing this, the cynic in me tells me you are better off the old way otherwise they would not want to change it.
You will need to do the sums, but these firms never come up with these schemes to do YOU any favours, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which usually benefits THEM.Rob I’ve PM’d you
And yes I will scrutinise it fullySent while from gods know where
Ok bud, I’ll get back to you on it when I get home later today. 
As said it depends on lots of factors but the only reason to offer a new contract is to cut the wages bill simple as that.
If you opt to be tupe’d over keeping your old contract terms and conditions you know where you are.
Company sick pay is usually OK mind. Ours depends on length or service for starters. For example after 5 years continuous service I’m entitled to 16 weeks full pay and 16 weeks at half pay sick leave. However when they say full pay it isn’t full pay as no shift premium is paid so you do come out with less money if on the sick. The longest periods are 26 weeks full pay and 25 weeks half pay. There is also a shorter period for less than 5 years but over 2 years I think from memory of 6 weeks full and 6 weeks half pay. But it is always at management discretion whether it gets paid anyway although no one usually gets refused pay for being off sick.
Sometimes you just can’t be going to work feeling unwell especially driving a 44 ton truck, it’s not safe for you or for others on the road so it has its advantages.
However you’d have to look at the full terms and conditions before making your choice. Only then can you really make an informed decision as to what is best.
Lossing overtime at time and half and double time could be the kicker if you end up doing a lot of overtime, however it depends again on how much more the hourly rate is, I assume overtime will still be paid just at a flat rate?
It really is only a call you can honestly make for yourself asking advice and others thoughts is good but when it comes down to money in your pocket you have to work out what is best.
simcor:
As said it depends on lots of factors but the only reason to offer a new contract is to cut the wages bill simple as that.If you opt to be tupe’d over keeping your old contract terms and conditions you know where you are.
Company sick pay is usually OK mind. Ours depends on length or service for starters. For example after 5 years continuous service I’m entitled to 16 weeks full pay and 16 weeks at half pay sick leave. However when they say full pay it isn’t full pay as no shift premium is paid so you do come out with less money if on the sick. The longest periods are 26 weeks full pay and 25 weeks half pay. There is also a shorter period for less than 5 years but over 2 years I think from memory of 6 weeks full and 6 weeks half pay. But it is always at management discretion whether it gets paid anyway although no one usually gets refused pay for being off sick.
Sometimes you just can’t be going to work feeling unwell especially driving a 44 ton truck, it’s not safe for you or for others on the road so it has its advantages.
However you’d have to look at the full terms and conditions before making your choice. Only then can you really make an informed decision as to what is best.
Lossing overtime at time and half and double time could be the kicker if you end up doing a lot of overtime, however it depends again on how much more the hourly rate is, I assume overtime will still be paid just at a flat rate?
It really is only a call you can honestly make for yourself asking advice and others thoughts is good but when it comes down to money in your pocket you have to work out what is best.
Why you saying about Tupe ? Is that for workers when the company gets taken over by another firm ?
You know more than me then [emoji6]
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
simcor:
As said it depends on lots of factors but the only reason to offer a new contract is to cut the wages bill simple as that.If you opt to be tupe’d over keeping your old contract terms and conditions you know where you are.
Company sick pay is usually OK mind. Ours depends on length or service for starters. For example after 5 years continuous service I’m entitled to 16 weeks full pay and 16 weeks at half pay sick leave. However when they say full pay it isn’t full pay as no shift premium is paid so you do come out with less money if on the sick. The longest periods are 26 weeks full pay and 25 weeks half pay. There is also a shorter period for less than 5 years but over 2 years I think from memory of 6 weeks full and 6 weeks half pay. But it is always at management discretion whether it gets paid anyway although no one usually gets refused pay for being off sick.
Sometimes you just can’t be going to work feeling unwell especially driving a 44 ton truck, it’s not safe for you or for others on the road so it has its advantages.
However you’d have to look at the full terms and conditions before making your choice. Only then can you really make an informed decision as to what is best.
Lossing overtime at time and half and double time could be the kicker if you end up doing a lot of overtime, however it depends again on how much more the hourly rate is, I assume overtime will still be paid just at a flat rate?
It really is only a call you can honestly make for yourself asking advice and others thoughts is good but when it comes down to money in your pocket you have to work out what is best.
Why you saying about Tupe ? Is that for workers when the company gets taken over by another firm ?
You know more than me then [emoji6]Sent from my truck
Yes tupe is when your taken over by another company but entitles you to stay on the same terms and contract as your previous company. Its there to protect you staying on your terms and conditions. Google tupe for more info. I’ve never been tupe’d myself but know people who have.
simcor:
blue estate:
simcor:
As said it depends on lots of factors but the only reason to offer a new contract is to cut the wages bill simple as that.If you opt to be tupe’d over keeping your old contract terms and conditions you know where you are.
Company sick pay is usually OK mind. Ours depends on length or service for starters. For example after 5 years continuous service I’m entitled to 16 weeks full pay and 16 weeks at half pay sick leave. However when they say full pay it isn’t full pay as no shift premium is paid so you do come out with less money if on the sick. The longest periods are 26 weeks full pay and 25 weeks half pay. There is also a shorter period for less than 5 years but over 2 years I think from memory of 6 weeks full and 6 weeks half pay. But it is always at management discretion whether it gets paid anyway although no one usually gets refused pay for being off sick.
Sometimes you just can’t be going to work feeling unwell especially driving a 44 ton truck, it’s not safe for you or for others on the road so it has its advantages.
However you’d have to look at the full terms and conditions before making your choice. Only then can you really make an informed decision as to what is best.
Lossing overtime at time and half and double time could be the kicker if you end up doing a lot of overtime, however it depends again on how much more the hourly rate is, I assume overtime will still be paid just at a flat rate?
It really is only a call you can honestly make for yourself asking advice and others thoughts is good but when it comes down to money in your pocket you have to work out what is best.
Why you saying about Tupe ? Is that for workers when the company gets taken over by another firm ?
You know more than me then [emoji6]Sent from my truck
Yes tupe is when your taken over by another company but entitles you to stay on the same terms and contract as your previous company. Its there to protect you staying on your terms and conditions. Google tupe for more info. I’ve never been tupe’d myself but know people who have.
I’ve filled some gaps for you in a pm
Sent from my truck
They are planning more Sunday working. I doubt if they are offering more than an extra £2 hr basic
so £2x11hrs = £22 x5 days = 55hr week= £110 extra
Maxing out duty time £2 x 84 hrs = £168
Assume current basic rate:
= £8 hr Sunday shift 6hrs @ £16 = £96
= £10 hr Sunday shift 11hrs @ £20 = £220
= £11 hr Sunday Shift 11hrs @ £22 = £242
= £12 hr Sunday shift 11 hrs @ £24 = £264
That obviously doesn’t take into account any weekday overtime.
The one thing which would make me jump to the new contract is the full sick pay.
You’d probably be worse off I suspect most weeks if you do lots of Sat and Sun work, but being off sick for say 6 weeks is my biggest worry at £96 a week vs maybe £400 or whatever rate its at.
Obviously that depends on your circumstances, outgoings and savings. I’ve only ever had 4 days off in 20+ years, but there’s always a chance and SSP doesn’t even (quite) cover the rent.
Plus at 45 we’re no spring chickens as I’m sure your body tells you every morning. 
trevHCS:
The one thing which would make me jump to the new contract is the full sick pay.You’d probably be worse off I suspect most weeks if you do lots of Sat and Sun work, but being off sick for say 6 weeks is my biggest worry at £96 a week vs maybe £400 or whatever rate its at.
Obviously that depends on your circumstances, outgoings and savings. I’ve only ever had 4 days off in 20+ years, but there’s always a chance and SSP doesn’t even (quite) cover the rent.
Plus at 45 we’re no spring chickens as I’m sure your body tells you every morning.
Every morning , more like 3 times a night to go to the loo [emoji15][emoji23][emoji23]
I don’t do to many Saturdays or Sunday’s
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
There’s changes going on at work which also means a new work contract of T&C’s
I would gain more hourly pay ,holiday and full sick pay but would lose the 1.5 x OT rate and the Sunday double pay
Also there’s a pay review in June
Or we can stay on old contract but only SSP @£94 week and 28days holiday and current hourly rate
Thoughts guys
As others have said, new contracts are all about reducing your pay, not increasing it. I’ve worked at a few different companies who have done this, one of which was unionised and the shop steward was very pleased with himself that he’d managed to negotiate better pay for us all, only that when you looked into the finer details and the extra weekend working required, it actually worked out to be a pay reduction overall. 
Your driver colleagues are your biggest enemy when it comes to pay and contracts. Most are too thick to figure out the finer details and just look at the headline numbers and proclaim it to be a pay increase. Even at our place only a few months after I started there, 2 of our drivers voted for an £2/hr increase on the basic hourly pay in exchange for losing the time 1.5 overtime rate after 8 hrs and weekend/BH premiums. We operate 365 days a year due to the type of work and at the time had 12 new suppliers starting over the following 3 months which meant that the working day would be longer . The company already struggled to get driver cover for weekends but I didn’t mind them for the extra money along with another driver, but no way we’re working what we consider to be unsociable days for basic rate when it used to be time 1.5 for Saturday and about time 1.8 for Sunday. We both went onto Mon-Fri only as the 2 drivers who voted for it said that “Saturday and Sunday are the same as any other day really” and claimed to not mind working them, so they did. It lasted about 2 months until they were whinging that they were working every weekend and it “wasn’t right” that me and the other driver were only working Mon-Fri . Management tried to implement a rota so we were all doing weekends as they were now struggling for weekend cover again, but still with no rate uplift for weekends. Big arguments ensued over it and we both point blank refused, suggesting that they take up the matter with the 2 drivers as they were ones who voted for it . One now does Wed-Sun and the other does Sat-Wed, every week, for basic rate.
We both still do Mon-Fri but with the extra work the day went from 9 hours to 12 hours. With the basic rate increase of £2/hr that the 2 asked for and got, but the scrapping of the overtime rate, means that over a 12 hour day we’re actually £1 per day worse off on the basic flat rate than we would have been if the time 1.5 overtime after 8 hours was still in effect . I used to get asked regularly if I would cover a weekend shift for them or a BH, to which I would reply with a yes, if you pay the old weekend rates. Oddly enough they always managed to find another driver to cover them, usually one of the ‘yes’ men who are [zb]-scared of saying ‘no’ to management. Now they don’t even bother asking as they know what the answer will be.
In your case you need to look at how many paid hours you are booking on an average week, how many weekend shifts you do and then calculate whether you’d be better or worse off on a flat (increased) rate vs. your current basic rate + overtime rate for same. Personally SSP considerations wouldn’t even come into the equation for me. Holiday pay would, but be careful here as many holiday pay rates are based on x amount of hours per day, not the amount of hours that you’d typically work. Ours used to pay 8 hours per day when we were working approx 8-9 hours per day so were already losing out a little but no-one cared enough to rock the boat. But when the work increased to 12 hours per day, 8 hrs holiday was a joke. The contracts were revised and now it’s 12 hours holiday, so make you sure you check what your holiday pay rate is.
^^^^^ This.
Drivers are their own worst enemy, many are easily led and duped and most of them fail to see the bigger picture when pound signs are waved under their beaks ,.and if there is no Union presence it’s a use and abuse free for all.
Then put the arse crawlers and the yes men into the mix,.and consequently anybody with a brain who can see the real picture,.and the balls to voice their opinion of disagreement and disapproval, are put down as ‘trouble makers’…and this is what you are always up against in this job…the astute fighting against the stupid and the servile on the side of the clever management.
I won’t waste my time nor bore the arses off you with the old …‘‘If only we could stick together’’ ’
This is why the job has turned into a crock of ■■■■ over the years.
Btw O/p , pm sent.
Yeah I keep telling folk at my place to watch the paid breaks…
So say we lose 45mins a day, that’s £9 a day lost.
We average about 12hrs a day which at £12ph comes out £144 - lose £9 off that and its £135. You’d need a 7.5% ish increase to just stay level. I dont see too many 7.5% pay rises in the mid to near future…
toonsy:
Yeah I keep telling folk at my place to watch the paid breaks…So say we lose 45mins a day, that’s £9 a day lost.
We average about 12hrs a day which at £12ph comes out £144 - lose £9 off that and its £135. You’d need a 7.5% ish increase to just stay level. I dont see too many 7.5% pay rises in the mid to near future…
I prefer not to get paid for breaks tbh. 
yeh.
… Bear with me on this for a minute… 
Drivers on the whole being a bit dim, tend to say…‘‘I might as well work during my break, I’m getting paid for it’’ , and they actually can not see the irony in that.
Then before you know it the boss after seeing this, will actually EXPECT it, from those (like me) who wouldn’t, then the arguments start, caused yet again by the heroes/idiots in the job.
Nah, I’ll stick with the 45 mins unpaid thanks, you need to practice self preservation to protect yourself in this job from knob heads…