I sometimes wonder just what is the point of a contract of employment anyway. Seems to me that companies can change it anytime they feel like it (giving a notice period first) to suit themselves, and if we dont like it we can bugger off!
robroy:
toonsy:
Yeah I keep telling folk at my place to watch the paid breaks…So say we lose 45mins a day, that’s £9 a day lost.
We average about 12hrs a day which at £12ph comes out £144 - lose £9 off that and its £135. You’d need a 7.5% ish increase to just stay level. I dont see too many 7.5% pay rises in the mid to near future…
I prefer not to get paid for breaks tbh.
yeh.
… Bear with me on this for a minute…Drivers on the whole being a bit dim, tend to say…‘‘I might as well work during my break, I’m getting paid for it’’
, and they actually can not see the irony in that.
Then before you know it the boss after seeing this, will actually EXPECT it, from those (like me) who wouldn’t, then the arguments start, caused yet again by the heroes/idiots in the job.Nah, I’ll stick with the 45 mins unpaid thanks, you need to practice self preservation to protect yourself in this job from knob heads…
Tbf they’ve never asked us to work through a break. If you say you need one while they’re trying to fit another pint into your one pint glass of work they do back off and say ring us after break etc but yeah I get what you mean.
Their rationale is that by paying us they can say to us to go on break for a bit. I’ve still not worked it out because in the instances they’d be telling me to go on break id probably be on break anyway.
Come on then Bluey, what path have you decided to go down, which option are you going to take, have you weighed up the ins and outs.?
I’ve told you what I would do, but no offence btw if you think my pm advice was a non starter 
, the decision is totally down to you.
robroy:
Come on then Bluey, what path have you decided to go down, which option are you going to take, have you weighed up the ins and outs.?I’ve told you what I would do, but no offence btw if you think my pm advice was a non starter
Waiting for the B&W stuff before making decision
Sent while from gods know where
Stick to the 1.5 overtime rate, as the change is the thin end of the wedge. Management won’t put the hourly rate up for 6 years, so you will end up with a low hourly rate and no time and a half O/T.
Better basic,sick pay, enhanced holiday pay all depend on how much the increase will be. When I was working we had the same situation fortunately the changes made very little difference. One hourly rate all through was easier to work out what you had been paid. Getting a better basic for me meant I could cut out some overtime by a couple of hours
carlston49:
Stick to the 1.5 overtime rate, as the change is the thin end of the wedge. Management won’t put the hourly rate up for 6 years, so you will end up with a low hourly rate and no time and a half O/T.
Exactly this.
You have just described the method of conning drivers around the mid 80s, where most of us were on a time and a half overtime rate after 40 hours…(just think what you tear arse men and hours addicts could make today on those rates eh 
£££)
So they were offered a substantial pay rise on hours, BUT at same rate right through, which they grabbed with both hands, in a Turkey voting Christmas style, then the agenda of the plan kicked in, where yearly pay rises stopped for God knows how long.
This is why many of you HAVE to max out today to make a wage you can live on. ,…and then boast about being on… ‘‘Good money’’ 
robroy:
carlston49:
Stick to the 1.5 overtime rate, as the change is the thin end of the wedge. Management won’t put the hourly rate up for 6 years, so you will end up with a low hourly rate and no time and a half O/T.Exactly this.
You have just described the method of conning drivers around the mid 80s, where most of us were on a time and a half overtime rate after 40 hours…(just think what you tear arse men and hours addicts could make today on those rates eh
So they were offered a substantial pay rise on hours, BUT at same rate right through, which they grabbed with both hands, in a Turkey voting Christmas style, then the agenda of the plan kicked in, where yearly pay rises stopped for God knows how long.
This is why many of you HAVE to max out today to make a wage you can live on.
I understand the general direction that both of you are coming from, but I’m struggling to see how adjusting rates/binning overtime enhancements now has any effect on future annual pay rises (unless of course it was included in the negotiations at the outset). If the company wants to put a brake on annual rises for 2, 3 or more years, that’s what they’ll do regardless of what happened in previous years.
It does of course cut both ways:
Imagine the OP was working 55 hours a week on £11 p.h.
40 hours at basic £11 = £440
15 hours at x1.5 = £247.50
Gross weekly pay £687.50
His alter-ego gets a £1.50 higher basic rate but no OT enhancements, so
55 hours at £12.50 = £687.50 (i.e. same as our OP)
Now imagine that either by choice or necessity (or simply because the workload has slackened so no more Saturday working) hours are reduced to 45 a week
He’s doing 40 hours at basic £11 = £440
5 hours at x1.5 = £82.50
Gross weekly pay £522.50
Whereas on the plain time deal he would be doing 45 hours at £12.50 = £562.50 - That’s an extra £40 a week (or £2k a year) on his top line. Now, what were you saying about having to work max hours to make “good money”…?
Roymondo:
robroy:
carlston49:
Stick to the 1.5 overtime rate, as the change is the thin end of the wedge. Management won’t put the hourly rate up for 6 years, so you will end up with a low hourly rate and no time and a half O/T.Exactly this.
You have just described the method of conning drivers around the mid 80s, where most of us were on a time and a half overtime rate after 40 hours…(just think what you tear arse men and hours addicts could make today on those rates eh
So they were offered a substantial pay rise on hours, BUT at same rate right through, which they grabbed with both hands, in a Turkey voting Christmas style, then the agenda of the plan kicked in, where yearly pay rises stopped for God knows how long.
This is why many of you HAVE to max out today to make a wage you can live on.I understand the general direction that both of you are coming from, but I’m struggling to see how adjusting rates/binning overtime enhancements now has any effect on future annual pay rises (unless of course it was included in the negotiations at the outset). If the company wants to put a brake on annual rises for 2, 3 or more years, that’s what they’ll do regardless of what happened in previous years.
It does of course cut both ways:
Imagine the OP was working 55 hours a week on £11 p.h.
40 hours at basic £11 = £440
15 hours at x1.5 = £247.50
Gross weekly pay £687.50His alter-ego gets a £1.50 higher basic rate but no OT enhancements, so
55 hours at £12.50 = £687.50 (i.e. same as our OP)Now imagine that either by choice or necessity (or simply because the workload has slackened so no more Saturday working) hours are reduced to 45 a week
He’s doing 40 hours at basic £11 = £440
5 hours at x1.5 = £82.50
Gross weekly pay £522.50Whereas on the plain time deal he would be doing 45 hours at £12.50 = £562.50 - That’s an extra £40 a week (or £2k a year) on his top line. Now, what were you saying about having to work max hours to make “good money”…?
It NEVER works like that. Any proposed changes in pay rates are always a result of management knowing in advance that the working hours are going to change. If there’s an expectation that the hours are going to increase and/or weekend working is on the cards, then the proposals will be for a flat rate, no weekend premium and a reduction or full cancellation of any current overtime rate. Equally, if there’s an expectation that the hours will drop then they’ll happily increase your overtime rate to make you feel like they’re giving you a pay rise. It’s just like these shyster companies that change you from getting an overtime rate per day after 8 hours and amend it so that the rate doesn’t kick in until you’ve completed 50-55 hours in the week,
Roymondo makes valid points, everyone has to make their own individual choices via working out what changes mean to them, not moaning Bob who browbeats others into going along with what suits him, and do their own version of Mystic Meg to try and second guess what possible shift changes and hours increases/reductions could be in the pipeline and factor those in too.
Weekday working probably won’t make a world of difference, unless you work short or very long hours the daily pay will probably be around the same, weekend working all at OT rate and possible bank hol working rates are when going over to one set hourly rate will make a huge difference, as someone above said the lack of full sick pay wouldn’t sway me one way or another, nice benefit if you do happen to fall ill, but has its downsides for non ■■■■ takers as well as the company** because the usual suspects can’t help themselves taking the ■■■■, twas ever thus.
There are no hard and fast rules here, simplifying a previous complicated to administer wage and/or shift set up might be a quite innocent part of the reasoning here, not all companies are out to take their staff down a peg or three because most companies are not actually on a suicide mission to cut the pay of their skilled reliable core drivers sending them into the welcoming arms of other more enlightened employers.
**remember at the end of the day the company needs to be profitable, and its in everyone’s interests long term to do their part to see it does, carrying a percentage of lead swingers and paying them full time wages into the bargain won’t do the company or the other drivers much good when the whole caboodle goes pop.
I worked for a company which give us a choice, sign the new contract or they be no work for drivers who didn’t sign it !!. most drivers signed it there and then some held out until last day and then signed new contract.
Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
I think the new contract will will bring you more Sat and Sunday work …A wizz kid in the company will know there is more and more Sunday work coming his way and will see a way to max profit on the job or be able to get work that is on the horizon ,might be be but I do not see anyone but yourself wanting to make your pay better .ho for Sunday double time ,Bank hols double and a day off…
The consensus here is clear, the company will not change your pay rates to benefit you, it’s to benefit them. If they want to take away your overtime and weekend rates it because longer hours and weekend work is on the horizon.
Clearly though by the nod nod wink wink your company is being bought out. Stay in the current rates and tupe over. “I’m glad I’m not on your old contract and conditions” said no new driver to a long serving one!
Just to add some more info on this thread
Even though I didn’t state it at the start some were right in thinking “New owner “ [emoji6]
Can not say any more than that apart from the change happens on 1st of March
I personally don’t work much weekend OT as 6 days is to much for me and I have a home life
Also I’m not maxed out on my finances (just come out of a 6 year IVA and don’t want to do that again )
And my mortgage is less than half of house value and shared with my brother
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
Just to add some more info on this thread
Even though I didn’t state it at the start some were right in thinking “New owner “ [emoji6]
Can not say any more than that apart from the change happens on 1st of March
I personally don’t work much weekend OT as 6 days is to much for me and I have a home life
Also I’m not maxed out on my finances (just come out of a 6 year IVA and don’t want to do that again )
And my mortgage is less than half of house value and shared with my brotherSent from my truck
If there’s a new owner then TUPE regulations kick in, as has been mentioned earlier. This does afford some protection to your existing employment contract - but don’t run away with the idea that they cannot make changes (they most certainly can!).
Have a read through these pages acas.org.uk/tupe