So we’ve recently acquired a new TM… not sure if he’s wet behind the ears but I’m sure that he’s still in nappies.
Regardless of moistness or anything else, he is however, more than capable of pi55ing off all the drivers.
His latest piece of nonsense is this…
One of the guys went out as a second man to help out with a couple of drops. When he checked his hours he found that the TM had not put his hours down correctly.
When challenged he said (and I quote) , “You were sitting POA and industry standard is that POA doesn’t count towards your working hours so it only counts when the lorry is stationary and you change the mode to Other Work.”
If you put the second driver on rest, when the truck is moving it shows as POA, the first 45 minutes is allowed to count as a break.
Therefore for WTD it doesn’t count, however there is nothing to stop you setting the second driver to other work while the truck is moving and this is technically correct if they are navigating, taking company phones calls etc.
What’s the problem not getting paid because on POA or the time not counting to time on a max hours contract or something else?
muckles:
If you put the second driver on rest, when the truck is moving it shows as POA, the first 45 minutes is allowed to count as a break.
Therefore for WTD it doesn’t count, however there is nothing to stop you setting the second driver to other work while the truck is moving and this is technically correct if they are navigating, taking company phones calls etc.
What’s the problem not getting paid because on POA or the time not counting to time on a max hours contract or something else?
Tacho won’t accept a change of mode while the lorry is moving.
That driver is on a maximum hours contract and he argues (rightly, in my book) that he was ■■ hours over his time for that week – and should be paid accordingly!
TM refuses to put it down as ‘overtime’. No overtime = no money.
muckles:
If you put the second driver on rest, when the truck is moving it shows as POA, the first 45 minutes is allowed to count as a break.
Therefore for WTD it doesn’t count, however there is nothing to stop you setting the second driver to other work while the truck is moving and this is technically correct if they are navigating, taking company phones calls etc.
What’s the problem not getting paid because on POA or the time not counting to time on a max hours contract or something else?
Tacho won’t accept a change of mode while the lorry is moving.
That does surprise me, but despite doing many years of double manning, I don’t think I’ve ever bothered changing it while moving.
Win-Stone:
That driver is on a maximum hours contract and he argues (rightly, in my book) that he was ■■ hours over his time for that week – and should be paid accordingly!
TM refuses to put it down as ‘overtime’. No overtime = no money.
The TM is a ■■■■, although he might be technically correct, the company asked the driver to help with deliveries, next time I hope you all tell him to get stuffed.
thehairyarsedtrucker:
If my old brain is not too confused, I believe that POA has to be paid that is the reason it was brought in in the first place.
That’s correct, it was a legal way to reduce the overall working hours not duty hours, but accumulated POA could be used against working hours over the 17 or 26 week period,and any time taken off to compensate would then be taken without pay
thehairyarsedtrucker:
If my old brain is not too confused, I believe that POA has to be paid that is the reason it was brought in in the first place.
That’s correct, it was a legal way to reduce the overall working hours not duty hours, but accumulated POA could be used against working hours over the 17 or 26 week period,and any time taken off to compensate would then be taken without pay
Eh? Hold on, and please correct me if I’m wrong here … but…
If I read what you’ve written correctly…
If I spend a week as a second man and am, therefore, in the lorry for (let’s say) 50 hours … but 40 hours of that is shown on my card as POA… you reckon that I’ve only worked for 10 hours■■?
If you are paid hourly and your duty time is 15hrs 10 maybe work 4 POA and and hours rest, your paid hours should be 14 not 10, as your on duty not on break, if you are showing 10hrs work and 5hrs rest then you’d only be entitled to 10hrs pay.
It’s only at the end of the 17 / 26 week period that it’s calculated against should you have worked over the average 48
thehairyarsedtrucker:
If my old brain is not too confused, I believe that POA has to be paid that is the reason it was brought in in the first place.
That’s correct, it was a legal way to reduce the overall working hours not duty hours, but accumulated POA could be used against working hours over the 17 or 26 week period,and any time taken off to compensate would then be taken without pay
Eh? Hold on, and please correct me if I’m wrong here … but…
If I read what you’ve written correctly…
If I spend a week as a second man and am, therefore, in the lorry for (let’s say) 50 hours … but 40 hours of that is shown on my card as POA… you reckon that I’ve only worked for 10 hours■■?
We do a lot of double manning. We had a timesheet for example that we paid 84 hours on (before you all go mental the following week was 45 hours). But of the 84 hours we paid, some was reduced daily , 24 hours was ferry (ferry crossing 24 hours there and back, get paid 12,hours each crossing), of the remaining.g 60, there was 9 hours other work and ten driving. So it’s 19 hours of work. My lot don’t care what it’s called as long as those 84 are paid for.
It’s not rocket science. Digital tachos will always record POA on the card in Slot 2 while the vehicle is in motion. If you are working during this time you simply do a written entry on the back of a printout to correct this, thus ensuring your working hours are correctly recorded.
When I first started, I got ■■■■■■ with the co insisting any hours out double manned (on POA) wouldn’t be counted as ‘worked time’ - and therefore they used it to reduce my 48 hour average. I’m salaried, so still got paid as normal, but my argument was that my contract was for 48 hours, not 48 hours working time, so they were getting more than their moneys worth and I was over my contracted hours! Suffice to say it fell on deaf ears!
Anyway, my answer, was that I would no longer put my card in slot 2 if out as a 2nd man, nor use POA for breakdowns etc. We don’t work to double-manning rules anyway, so it’s a bit academic. I simply do manual entries to show any other work / breaks.
The easiest solution is not to use POA, if you double man don’t use slot 2.
I use POA simply because I get paid while on duty ( driving, other work or POA ) and not while on rest, I can spend 5 - 6 hours on a bay some days, and I won’t do a split break I do my 15’s when they suit me not them.
