Run for the hills is my advice! “Over-ruling a TM” is just about as bad as it gets for you and as has been said, it will be YOUR repute that is at stake.
TheNoviceTM:
We run 32T grab wagons
I don’t need to know any more. Get out!
Meistre:
For the purpose of the O’licence though, when does the rights and ownership of the material change?
Hi Meistre,
Normal sales terms apply as in your post.
Meistre:
If I am delivering product to a customer on a 90 day payment account, does that mean I could operate on a Restricted licence as it’s technically mine till the customer pays.
IMHO yes, because the goods are yours.
You’d have an invoice issued in your name to the customer who had bought your goods from you.
You’ll also have an invoice from the original supplier that shows that you bought them first, so proving ownership shouldn’t be a problem.
Meistre:
Or if I delivered and they paid cash on delivery or before, does that mean the operator must hold a Standard Licence?
IMHO no, because you’d still have the invoice to show that you’d bought the goods before you’d sold them.
You’d also have an invoice issued in your name to the customer who had bought your goods from you.
Whether you’ve supplied the goods on credit doesn’t have a bearing on the ‘O’ licence.
You are allowed to make a delivery charge for goods that you have supplied, and that’s the very essence of an own account ‘O’ licence.
Lusk:
kevmac47:
I think this “novice” should use one of the 32t grab motors to clean up the bullcrap he’s spouting. There’s been better windups than that on here.
Kevmac47.Care to elaborate?
In my opinion most of the questions being asked by the “new TM” should already be in his field of knowledge. I did the CPC 22years ago and they are familiar to me. I still think it’s a wind-up.
Apart from someone like Clancy Docwra, I can’t see many firms running grabs running on restricted O licenses. Grab wagons are a service, diy’ers small builders etc hire them so a full license would be essential. I would ask the op to make sure his employer has a waste carriers license…
dieseldave:
Meistre:
For the purpose of the O’licence though, when does the rights and ownership of the material change?Hi Meistre,
Normal sales terms apply as in your post.
Meistre:
If I am delivering product to a customer on a 90 day payment account, does that mean I could operate on a Restricted licence as it’s technically mine till the customer pays.IMHO yes, because the goods are yours.
You’d have an invoice issued in your name to the customer who had bought your goods from you.
You’ll also have an invoice from the original supplier that shows that you bought them first, so proving ownership shouldn’t be a problem.Meistre:
Or if I delivered and they paid cash on delivery or before, does that mean the operator must hold a Standard Licence?IMHO no, because you’d still have the invoice to show that you’d bought the goods before you’d sold them.
You’d also have an invoice issued in your name to the customer who had bought your goods from you.
Whether you’ve supplied the goods on credit doesn’t have a bearing on the ‘O’ licence.
You are allowed to make a delivery charge for goods that you have supplied, and that’s the very essence of an own account ‘O’ licence.
Interesting post. It would be good if we could find out.
Muckaway:
Apart from someone like Clancy Docwra, I can’t see many firms running grabs running on restricted O licenses.
I’m taking the National CPC exams in March and we’ve been discussing some of the up and coming changes that MAY appear over the next few years…and this is going to be one of the areas that should be cleaned up…a lot. They’re also taking about periodic review training for existing CPCs, limiting external contracted CPCs and reducding the licencing to just Leeds…ie 8 areas (still) but one licence only for the UK…
Having said all that though…Lord knows whats going to happen 
Meistre:
Muckaway:
Apart from someone like Clancy Docwra, I can’t see many firms running grabs running on restricted O licenses.I’m taking the National CPC exams in March and we’ve been discussing some of the up and coming changes that MAY appear over the next few years…and this is going to be one of the areas that should be cleaned up…a lot. They’re also taking about periodic review training for existing CPCs, limiting external contracted CPCs and reducding the licencing to just Leeds…ie 8 areas (still) but one licence only for the UK…
Having said all that though…Lord knows whats going to happen
You won’t be doing a national CPC as its now all one and includes the international part.
I’ve also heard of CPC holders having to refresh thier CPC every 10 years, but I think you’ll find they’ve already limited what external CPC holder can manage to 4 companies with a maximum of 50 vehicles.
muckles:
Meistre:
Muckaway:
Apart from someone like Clancy Docwra, I can’t see many firms running grabs running on restricted O licenses.I’m taking the National CPC exams in March and we’ve been discussing some of the up and coming changes that MAY appear over the next few years…and this is going to be one of the areas that should be cleaned up…a lot. They’re also taking about periodic review training for existing CPCs, limiting external contracted CPCs and reducding the licencing to just Leeds…ie 8 areas (still) but one licence only for the UK…
Having said all that though…Lord knows whats going to happen
You won’t be doing a national CPC as its now all one and includes the international part.
I’ve also heard of CPC holders having to refresh thier CPC every 10 years, but I think you’ll find they’ve already limited what external CPC holder can manage to 4 companies with a maximum of 50 vehicles.
That’s been the case for over 12 months now. If you are TM the buck stops with you. You overrule the owner when it comes to the legal stuff, if you don’t, you are the sacrificial lamb !
muckles:
Meistre:
Muckaway:
Apart from someone like Clancy Docwra, I can’t see many firms running grabs running on restricted O licenses.I’m taking the National CPC exams in March and we’ve been discussing some of the up and coming changes that MAY appear over the next few years…and this is going to be one of the areas that should be cleaned up…a lot. They’re also taking about periodic review training for existing CPCs, limiting external contracted CPCs and reducding the licencing to just Leeds…ie 8 areas (still) but one licence only for the UK…
Having said all that though…Lord knows whats going to happen
You won’t be doing a national CPC as its now all one and includes the international part.
I’ve also heard of CPC holders having to refresh thier CPC every 10 years, but I think you’ll find they’ve already limited what external CPC holder can manage to 4 companies with a maximum of 50 vehicles.
Agreed, the 4/50 rule has been in for a while and it is a Management CPC not a National as they combined them …
You are correct, I can’t type and think !!! 
Good luck taking the exams!!
Lusk:
Good luck taking the exams!!
Cheers…I need it too
Yes, they arent nice.
Like kevmac, I got my CPC 20-odd years ago, working for a OA operator looking to expand into H&R. I would suggest there’s room for compromise here - tell the directors that at least until the Standard licence comes through, you go online and remove the oldest, knackeredest, ugliest wagon (there’s always one) from the authorisation and replace it with the new wagon. You (and they) stay legal that way and you can re-authorise the knacker when the new licence arrives, by which time they will have realised it’s a scrapper anyway. You’ll have to return the disc, btw.
If they don’t agree, then it gets ugly.
Has anything come of this yet TheNoviceTM? Would be interesting to know the outcome.
Tell the director that you are under a legal obligation to inform the TC of on going infringements. Show him a copy of the letter that you will be sending to the TC if the problem is not rectified.
Muckaway:
What do they produce/deliver? Just in my experience restricted O’ licence holders know/care very little about the law and run crap vehicles.
we run three 32 ton grab lorries,all under three years old(yes one is crap as it’s a hino lol),on a restricted o licence-utility work,no hire or reward, we’re on log books,no tachos -my daf is looked after on r&m contract at daf main dealer. the lorries are not what i would describe as crap(ie they are all well maintained,even the poxy hino…)
whenever we tip we have to fill in a waste transfer note,etc and we are subbies for a major contractor, so not all restricted o licence operators are cowboys.