m1cks:
Has any application been made to increase the amount vehicles?
Yes there has
Could be a utility contractor.
Thanks. I was trying to think of a situation where the goods they were grabbing we’re their own and couldn’t come up with one!
F-reds
I think a few things need to be clarified from your op.
-
They already have a restricted O’licence, so what O’licence are you waiting for, is it an upgrade to full or one that allows more vehicle.
-
If they’ve been operating without an O’licence have Vosa caught them and told them that even with a restricted licence they expect them to have a CPC holder.
My thoughts, if they have a restricted licence then don’t get named as the TM, then the O’licence holder carrys the can.
If they need a CPC holder then use your clout by threatening to resign and as you have inform the TC telling them you’ll inform him or why you have resigned. Although that’ll probably have the looking at ways of getting rid of you. Therefore write everything down as it could get smelly. Personally from what you’ve said the alarm bells are ringing, I think they want a CPC holder in name only, but have little interest in compliance.
Also if you haven’t used your CPC since you passed 16 years ago, then I’d do a refresher, many things have changed. There are new drivers hours regs, WTD, loads more compliance stuff, lots more health and Safety stuff.
F-reds:
Could be a utility contractor.
Thanks. I was trying to think of a situation where the goods they were grabbing we’re their own and couldn’t come up with one!
F-reds
Building firms can run on restricted licence if only collecting and moving their own materials like picking up sand and taking muck to the tip. Often these trucks are heaps of junk.
All good stuff, so i would take note of whats been said, its all well and good being a T/M, but the deciding factor is YOU control what goes on, as your repute and good standing carries a lot of weight, and can be easily lost, Anything to do with vehicles, and their legality is YOUR responsibility, and if anyone wants to disagree, tell them to F/O or you will F/O. And for the vehicle thats being operated against your wishes, i believe that NO vehicles can be operated unless the paperwork has been issued, and is in the windscreen. They probably need a fall guy, and really dont give a ■■■■ who it is, be very aware, and if you do in fact leave, inform VOSA and put it in writing with dates, they will write back to confirm, and ask them who their new mug is.
truckyboy:
All good stuff, so i would take note of whats been said, its all well and good being a T/M, but the deciding factor is YOU control what goes on, as your repute and good standing carries a lot of weight, and can be easily lost, Anything to do with vehicles, and their legality is YOUR responsibility, and if anyone wants to disagree, tell them to F/O or you will F/O. And for the vehicle thats being operated against your wishes, i believe that NO vehicles can be operated unless the paperwork has been issued, and is in the windscreen. They probably need a fall guy, and really dont give a [zb] who it is, be very aware, and if you do in fact leave, inform VOSA and put it in writing with dates, they will write back to confirm, and ask them who their new mug is.
Everything I have read here is what I feared, just needed some clarity. Thanks for your input. Tomorrow will be ultimatum day I think.
Directors can be problematic…they’ve employed you as CPC holder to run the transport & then ignore at least some of what you advise!! Ultimately (and legally) you are more of a transport ‘expert’ than they are, even with your limited experience & dated qual. at least you bothered to take & pass CPC exams - I’m presuming they couldn’t/didn’t - otherwise they would be CPC holders.
Having said all that sometimes it’s a slight compromise between 100% compliance & running the business…but no compromise with something this important - otherwise where will they draw the line■■? 10, 20, 30 extra vehicles than authorised■■? Nip it in the bud - one way or another.
well done thenovice, so what your quals are old you still earned them [zb] em and blow them up
=====================
The rule is that you type whatever you like, then just leave it.
The auto censor is err… automatic, so please read forum rule #3 on re-spelling or ‘doctoring’ words to dodge the auto censor. dd.
F-reds:
Could be a utility contractor.
Thanks. I was trying to think of a situation where the goods they were grabbing we’re their own and couldn’t come up with one!
F-reds
Maybe a landscaping company might own both the truck and the soil.
TBF, I’d got the impression that the OP is talking of hire and reward rather than own account.
agghhh bludy elle, thanks for pointing that out dd
dieseldave:
F-reds:
Could be a utility contractor.
Thanks. I was trying to think of a situation where the goods they were grabbing we’re their own and couldn’t come up with one!
F-reds
Maybe a landscaping company might own both the truck and the soil.
TBF, I’d got the impression that the OP is talking of hire and reward rather than own account.
The grey area comes in they’ve been paid to take the soil away or to supply it.
I think this “novice” should use one of the 32t grab motors to clean up the bullcrap he’s spouting. There’s been better windups than that on here. 
Kevmac47.
kevmac47:
I think this “novice” should use one of the 32t grab motors to clean up the bullcrap he’s spouting. There’s been better windups than that on here.
Kevmac47.
Care to elaborate?
If this is for real you are a joke.
If its not for real its still a joke.
I wouldn’t let you run a bath.
Here’s some advice for TMs which Beverley Bell gave at a recent FTA conference.
-
You have to exercise continuous and effective control over transport operations
-
You must not let operational concerns take precedence over legality and safety
-
You must protect your personal good repute: even if that means upsetting your employer
"If you are not being taken seriously by your employer then email the directors setting out your concerns. Keep a copy of the email
“If you find you don’t know what you are doing email your employer with a request to go on a course. Keep a copy of the email”
“you need to be able to praise what is good and deal quite harshly with what is bad.”
If your story is genuine, then you need to put your concerns in writing to your employer as a matter of urgency.
Emphasise that unless you are given ‘continuous and effective control’ with immediate effect, with all driving and other relevant staff being required to sign a statement that they understand that you are in charge, have the power to discipline etc then you are gone and you will inform the TC immediately of your resignation and the reasons for it.
“You need to be able to praise what is good and deal quite harshly with what is bad,” according to Beverley…and you need to deal quite harshly with your employer. Make it clear that one word from you and VOSA will be all over them like a plague of rats.
GasGas:
“You need to be able to praise what is good and deal quite harshly with what is bad,” according to Beverley…and you need to deal quite harshly with your employer. Make it clear that one word from you and VOSA will be all over them like a plague of rats.
I understand but in the real world where the TM has a wife, kids, mortgage etc…
Muckaway:
dieseldave:
F-reds:
Could be a utility contractor.
Thanks. I was trying to think of a situation where the goods they were grabbing we’re their own and couldn’t come up with one!
F-reds
Maybe a landscaping company might own both the truck and the soil.
TBF, I’d got the impression that the OP is talking of hire and reward rather than own account.
The grey area comes in they’ve been paid to take the soil away or to supply it.
Hi Muckaway,
When it comes to ‘O’ licencing, the difference in the type of ‘O’ licence required depends on the ownership of the goods being carried. The goods are either owned by the company who owns the vehicle carrying them, or they aren’t.
I’m not sure how the soil/aggregates industry works, because I’ve never done that type of work, but the central issue for ‘O’ licensing purposes is the ownership of the goods.
I’d imagine that if a groundworks company phones a transport company and asks for X tons of soil to be moved, a hire and reward (Standard) ‘O’ licence is required.
Now maybe an enterprising O/D buys the soil from the groundwork company if he has a customer that he can sell it to?
If that’s true and there’s the right invoices etc, then it becomes ‘own account,’ but he can’t then invoice the groundwork company for transport. He would be able to make a delivery charge to his customer for the delivery though.
I’ve no idea, but does that happen in the soil game?
dieseldave:
I’m not sure how the soil/aggregates industry works, because I’ve never done that type of work, but the central issue for ‘O’ licensing purposes is the ownership of the goods.
The point of sale would determine the ownership of the goods but would this affect the O License requirements?
Lusk:
dieseldave:
I’m not sure how the soil/aggregates industry works, because I’ve never done that type of work, but the central issue for ‘O’ licensing purposes is the ownership of the goods.The point of sale would determine the ownership of the goods but would this affect the O License requirements?
Hi Lusk,
Oh yes, very much so.
If the company who owns the vehicle also owns the goods being carried, then they need an ‘Own Account’ (AKA restricted) ‘O’ licence. These are relatively easy to obtain with only a few conditions, but the ownership of any goods being carried must always rest with the owner of the vehicle.
If the goods being carried on a vehicle belong to somebody other than the owner of the vehicle, the goods are being carried for ‘hire and reward’ and in such a case, a ‘hire and reward’ (AKA Standard National) ‘O’ licence is required. These are more difficult to obtain, because there are some quite stringent conditions to fulfil.
Somebody with a Standard National ‘O’ licence can also carry their own goods if they like, but somebody with an ‘own account’ ‘O’ licence cannot carry goods that don’t belong to them (= other people’s goods.)
dieseldave:
Lusk:
dieseldave:
I’m not sure how the soil/aggregates industry works, because I’ve never done that type of work, but the central issue for ‘O’ licensing purposes is the ownership of the goods.The point of sale would determine the ownership of the goods but would this affect the O License requirements?
Hi Lusk,
Oh yes, very much so.
If the company who owns the vehicle also owns the goods being carried, then they need an ‘Own Account’ (AKA restricted) ‘O’ licence. These are relatively easy to obtain with only a few conditions, but the ownership of any goods being carried must always rest with the owner of the vehicle.
If the goods being carried on a vehicle belong to somebody other than the owner of the vehicle, the goods are being carried for ‘hire and reward’ and in such a case, a ‘hire and reward’ (AKA Standard National) ‘O’ licence is required. These are more difficult to obtain, because there are some quite stringent conditions to fulfil.
Somebody with a Standard National ‘O’ licence can also carry their own goods if they like, but somebody with an ‘own account’ ‘O’ licence cannot carry goods that don’t belong to them (= other people’s goods.)
For the purpose of the O’licence though, when does the rights and ownership of the material change?
If I am delivering product to a customer on a 90 day payment account, does that mean I could operate on a Restricted licence as it’s technically mine till the customer pays.
Or if I delivered and they paid cash on delivery or before, does that mean the operator must hold a Standard Licence?