I was reading this thread on pistonheads about a new ‘Dutch style’ roundabout coming to the UK. The basic concept is that cyclists will have their own segregated lane and have right of way when traversing the intersections. According to various posters in the PH thread, it works brilliantly in Holland . Is that actually true or are they just being a bunch of clueless mouthbreathers? Any Dutch truckers here to comment?
Personally I think the layout looks bloody dangerous, for cars and especially for trucks. For a start you’ll have a dramatic increase in rear end shunts as vehicles slam on mid exit to accommodate a passing cyclist, but more worryingly, given that many drivers don’t take any notice of lane markings and other road markings, are they going to notice the give way markings on the exits and remember that they have to stop if a cyclist is approaching? I have my doubts.
But more importantly, given the angle of the exits and the nearside blind spots on the vast majority of trucks (especially artics), how are we even going to be able to see if there are any cyclists approaching when they’ll be completely out of sight around 130 degrees to our left? It would be like pulling up to angled T-junction where you have to swing out to the right then back left again so your cab is 90 degrees to junction so you can see what’s coming.
Seen it on another thread and it won’t work because cyclists don’t obey the current traffic lights so what’s to say they obey any other traffic lights that are introduced? They won’t.
Someone did a thread on here about them a couple of days ago I think. My thoughts? There will be even more gridlock in towns and city centres if they bring them in especially the likes of London,Cambridge as having to give way to cyclists all the time so they can go through on their merry way the traffic will never move!
It requires the driver to see the blindside of their vehicle
The HC encourages passing on the right because that is the side where the driver has the best view on most vehicles in the UK but this turns that on its head !!
Another thing,how much would they cost and think of the disruption it’d cause whilst the road and traffic planners dug up the old roundabout and approach roads and put the new ones in. If they DID decide to put these in then I think it would be time for cyclists to pay out of their pocket for them as these roundabouts would only benefit them,no one else.
I like how their lab consists of a section of road with cars and bikes, yet they go on to mention HGV’s murdering cyclists!
Try sticking a few artics on that road about and see how well it works then. They’d be better off spending that £100 million to teach cyclists how to use the road correctly. In fact why not add cycles on the road to the current driving licence as a new category!
mick.mh2racing:
Seen it on another thread and it won’t work because cyclists don’t obey the current traffic lights so what’s to say they obey any other traffic lights that are introduced? They won’t.
I agree with this. Mr cyclist is on the road fine until a red light and up he goes onto the path.
I think the majority of cyclists would use it, the problem is mr Lycra and his strange mates would just go straight over the round about, just like the same weirdos don’t use cycle lanes, paths, tracks!
I also think cyclists who don’t use the provided cycle paths should be fined!
Whilst not actually a “dutch” driver, I do drive there a fair bit and will say they work ok there, but, and it’s a big BUT, cyclists there are more"educated" to road rules etc,and so do take into account other road users,of “all” sizes.
But of course also bear in mind that on the whole cyclists have the right of way anyway in the netherlands.
skorpio:
Whilst not actually a “dutch” driver, I do drive there a fair bit and will say they work ok there, but, and it’s a big BUT, cyclists there are more"educated" to road rules etc,and so do take into account other road users,of “all” sizes.
But of course also bear in mind that on the whole cyclists have the right of way anyway in the netherlands.
If that BBC video clip was reversed so that the traffic was going the other way round (like it would be in NL), can you tell me how you’d be able to see the cyclists from your truck? Surely they’d still be 130 degrees or so off to your right, completely in your blind spot (assuming you left a LHD - wouldn’t be an issue if you drive a RHD there).
Stupid idea, plenty of body bags needed if that goes ahead!! & why do they make a video clip with a couple of cars & cyclists■■? Answer to that is if they actually used 20 or so cars & half a dozen hgv’s they would be scrapping up the cyclists of the road & getting insurance claims for all the rear end shunts !!
It works very well in Holland for a couple of reasons:
traffic on the round about has right of way ( its actualy coming from the right side)
cyclist in Holland are educated in traffic rules at a very young age, most of our kids cycle to school at an age of 6 years old (mostly on their own)
if you hit a cyclist in Holand with a larger or motorised vehicle you are always in the wrong so you look 150.000 times
the blind angle mirrors and pavement mirrors and mirrors to see at the front of vehicles are an Dutch invention, you never guess why (answers on the back of a stamp)
you never under no circumstances overtake acyclist on a roundabout never, if you do you may as wel rip your license up while you do it. So you are behind the cyclist and not beside him, bikes have been on Dutch roads much longer as cars
The average Dutch has 5 push bikes, there are more bike stolen everyday in Holland thanj sold in the Uk in a month.
That will teach you to live with bikes.
The problem here is that you have also right of way if you come from the right, and that makes it dificult to use Dutch solutions for British problems.
If you turn left on a T junction, you are always twisting your neck to see who could hit you, on the continent is this not a problem.
caledoniandream:
It works very well in Holland for a couple of reasons:
traffic on the round about has right of way ( its actualy coming from the right side)
cyclist in Holland are educated in traffic rules at a very young age, most of our kids cycle to school at an age of 6 years old (mostly on their own)
if you hit a cyclist in Holand with a larger or motorised vehicle you are always in the wrong so you look 150.000 times
the blind angle mirrors and pavement mirrors and mirrors to see at the front of vehicles are an Dutch invention, you never guess why (answers on the back of a stamp)
you never under no circumstances overtake acyclist on a roundabout never, if you do you may as wel rip your license up while you do it. So you are behind the cyclist and not beside him, bikes have been on Dutch roads much longer as cars
The average Dutch has 5 push bikes, there are more bike stolen everyday in Holland thanj sold in the Uk in a month.
That will teach you to live with bikes.
The problem here is that you have also right of way if you come from the right, and that makes it dificult to use Dutch solutions for British problems.
If you turn left on a T junction, you are always twisting your neck to see who could hit you, on the continent is this not a problem.
It might work ‘if’ they make the roundabouts large enough to accomodate the cycle lanes well away from the road traffic ( doubtful ) and ‘if’ they make the cyclists always give way to road traffic at all the crossing points not vice versa.Otherwise it’s just another,but even worse,form of crossing on the exits of roundabouts,which are all over the place and cause congestion at best and are a blindspot hazard to artics turning left at worst and with the speeds and road sense of most cyclists,militantly excercising their ‘rights’ and ‘priority’,it would probably result in even more accidents not less.
The problem here is that it’s obviously all part of the political policy of transferring wealth from west to east by making it more difficult to drive anything by giving cycles priority over motor vehicles because they want more people to use cycles here so the Chinese can afford to buy more cars.
It would involve educating all road users in road etiquette, something that’s not going to happen, one only has to look at behaviour on british roads, by all users, daily to realise this.
As has been said, cyclists are in the majority in NL and do have the right of way, like it or not! But the system worksthere. It won’t work in the UK simply because of the mindset of ALL road users here.
. Is that actually true or are they just being a bunch of clueless mouthbreathers? Any Dutch truckers here to comment?
