New driver and anxious

Carryfast:

Rjan:
Sorry to hear about this outcome, though it is not remotely surprising.

In an industry that claims to be desperate for new blood, it is some achievement to manage to turn hopeful new drivers into disgruntled radicals, having to confront bosses and slam their hands on the table to get their pay, before they have even completed a single leg of a journey behind the wheel.

To be fair it might have had more to do with two drivers wanting to do one reasonably attractive job.Than the ‘boss’ ( client ) calling for two drivers to turn up for work when he knows that he only needs one to do the job.

I agree it is unlikely that the boss (the client/employer) called for two drivers, but even expecting to be able to call for unnamed drivers on a daily basis through an agency (who I was casting as the bosses who are confronted in this case) is itself a recipe for mistakes.

And being able to get two men to turn up for one shift, one apparently being an experienced man, shows that there is no shortage of drivers even at this time of year.

It ultimately ensures that all the new blood with either leave again shortly or will become radical, and will of course tell their friends what things are like.

Rjan:
And being able to get two men to turn up for one shift, one apparently being an experienced man, shows that there is no shortage of drivers even at this time of year.

It ultimately ensures that all the new blood with either leave again shortly or will become radical, and will of course tell their friends what things are like.

I’d suggest that the ‘one’ apparently ‘experienced’ man only turned up because he knew the score regarding the job v what else was on offer and then decided to make a fight of it.At which point the client thought on his feet to diffuse the situation. :smiling_imp: :wink:

As for new blood telling their friends how it is.Yes an industry being slaughtered for political reasons in terms of an ever increasing amount of local multi drop loads being taken over an ever decreasing amount of distance.Many of those drops often involving the lack of mechanical handling equipment,if not by definition,thereby including the role of labourer.Sometimes to the point where the insult of the role of labourer outweighs the role of ‘driver’.Added to the injury of the total loss of a job which was/should be all about enjoying the freedom of the open road to make up for the downside of a general 12 hour day.

On that note there definitely is a shortage of drivers in that regard and an over supply of drivers looking for what decent distance work remains.No doubt to which your answer is transfer as much of that as possible onto rail as possible too.

seand90:
and said that the clients refused to pay me for today

That…

Has nothing at all to do with you not getting paid.

Your contract is with the agency not the client.

If I put £50 of petrol in my car and then said to the cashier ‘I can’t pay you because I haven’t been paid myself yet’, what do you think would happen?

Anyone who is in a meeting or on the other line will not be seeing you. It’s possibly the oldest trick in the book for stalling you out.

yourhavingalarf:

seand90:
and said that the clients refused to pay me for today

That…

Has nothing at all to do with you not getting paid.

Your contract is with the agency not the client.

Spot on, I had a couple of agencies claim they couldn’t pay me until they’d been paid, my response was to point out that getting the money off the client wasn’t my problem and I expected to be paid regardless of whether or not the agency got their money.

You work for the agency and they sub you out to their clients so it’s up-to the agency to pay you.

Sent from my mobile.

yourhavingalarf:

seand90:
and said that the clients refused to pay me for today

That…

Has nothing at all to do with you not getting paid.

Your contract is with the agency not the client.

If I put £50 of petrol in my car and then said to the cashier ‘I can’t pay you because I haven’t been paid myself yet’, what do you think would happen?

Anyone who is in a meeting or on the other line will not be seeing you. It’s possibly the oldest trick in the book for stalling you out.

I agree, but as a new driver looking to get a start, and without any other workers willing to back him up to reinforce collective pay norms, it’s less than likely that they’ll pay him 8 hours just for turning up.

Rjan:
I agree it is unlikely that the boss (the client/employer) called for two drivers, but even expecting to be able to call for unnamed drivers on a daily basis through an agency (who I was casting as the bosses who are confronted in this case) is itself a recipe for mistakes.

And being able to get two men to turn up for one shift, one apparently being an experienced man, shows that there is no shortage of drivers even at this time of year.

It ultimately ensures that all the new blood with either leave again shortly or will become radical, and will of course tell their friends what things are like.

I don’t think we’ve got an adequate explanation as to how two drivers actually turned up for the job with the other one supposedly having been sent a cancellation e mail.But with ‘’ Chris ‘’ ( the client ? ) then ‘favouring’ keeping the driver who’d supposedly been cancelled and who ‘somehow’,for ‘some reason’,had ‘ignored’ the cancellation.In which case what was it that had originally caused the agency to cancel one driver and then give the job to the other but the client then obviously reversed that decision.In which case did the other driver then actually do that shift against his cancellation notice.If yes what then happened next between the agency and the client to make everything go back to plan A. :confused:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
And being able to get two men to turn up for one shift, one apparently being an experienced man, shows that there is no shortage of drivers even at this time of year.

It ultimately ensures that all the new blood with either leave again shortly or will become radical, and will of course tell their friends what things are like.

I’d suggest that the ‘one’ apparently ‘experienced’ man only turned up because he knew the score regarding the job v what else was on offer and then decided to make a fight of it.At which point the client thought on his feet to diffuse the situation. :smiling_imp: :wink:

Whatever the reason, the simple fact of two people turning up for an agency shift suggests able and willing workers are still ten a penny.

As for new blood telling their friends how it is.Yes an industry being slaughtered for political reasons in terms of an ever increasing amount of local multi drop loads being taken over an ever decreasing amount of distance.Many of those drops often involving the lack of mechanical handling equipment,if not by definition,thereby including the role of labourer.Sometimes to the point where the insult of the role of labourer outweighs the role of ‘driver’.Added to the injury of the total loss of a job which was/should be all about enjoying the freedom of the open road to make up for the downside of a general 12 hour day.

I’m surprised your enemies the railwaymen didn’t get a mention.

Bosses have added labouring to the driving role mainly because they can, and drivers haven’t been willing to stand together to stop them. It is not being “slaughtered for political reasons” except to the extent that you and others keep voting for and supporting the Tory right.

I do agree with you though that traditionally for a driver, idle waiting time or low intensity was the quid pro quo of roles which required working long hours.

On that note there definitely is a shortage of drivers in that regard and an over supply of drivers looking for what decent distance work remains.No doubt to which your answer is transfer as much of that as possible onto rail as possible too.

Ah I started replying before I’d read to the bottom - the railwaymen do get a mention after all!

Rail has always been the backbone of long-distance, high-volume freight.

That said, van and small wagon freight on multi-drop has probably always involved drivers being labourers, but those sorts of roles tend not to involve long hours - at least not intrinsically anyway.

The main challenge is that driving has become an increasingly mental activity, not just because it’s been a generation since vehicles required physical strength to operate, but because traffic levels have increased and the complexity of roads and routes has increased dramatically, as have other mental demands of the job, and that means the last thing most drivers want or can cope with is a physical workout on top.

went in today to encon the agency had me in ,was given the keys to a 26 tonne 3 wheeled rigid with a height of 13.8

left the yard at 7 on my own went to wolverhampton train station, dropped of a load of kingspan panels access to site was a joke,had to use fryer street in the city centre and drive pass the road bloke and over to bridge to what looked like a footpath,was very tight no turning on the way out had to reverse 300metres with loads of pedestrains walking past etc ,that was the hard part over with then on to dudley dropped the rest of my load of then back to brum to reload with a full load of british gypsum pplaster cement to a builders merchant in kiddie completed got back for around 3pm could of been quicker but was in no rush, encon really impressed with me happy and want me in for the forseeable future had a good day enjoyed the job, but now theres a little plot twist hd ricketts called me up iv wanted a job with them for a long time heres my opportunity he wants me in tomorrow morning for a driving assessment and promised me a perm role with no agency crap taking any cream

after the rough start iv had with the agency, i called them up told them i wont be at encon tomorrow and she said encon would be realy dissapointed as i done well and there impressed, i said it is what it is i didnt have a great start with you guys and iv got a good shot here for good money and im taking it also its with a firm not an agency, i asked ricketts how perms the role and he told me theyv never made anybody redundant, thats good for me want something stable and long term :smiley:

just wondering anybody worked for them before and in regards to driving assessment , whats it like,consist of etc?

things are looking up again :smiley:

But did you get paid for the other day? :neutral_face:

robroy:
But did you get paid for the other day? :neutral_face:

no i didnt! they said its not their fault and that the md echoed the same thing so i said am i getting paid anything for monday yes or no?
they said the clients not paying you for it and im not saying we are or we aint but at the minute i dont know…so i think we all no what that means…

all of this bs so soon at the start has made me welcome this other firms driving assesment with open arms… although i did call the agency and tell them i wil not be at encon xyz i didnt need to but after the crap thev have served me didnt speak to brandon on the fone it was another lady who deals with industrial side shes happy with head up so thats it.

tomorrow i might even call enconand talk to them and tell them the reason for leaving and not turning back in

anybody got any tips and points for driving 8wheel volvo tippers?? dont no what to expect but do want a long term job bad,29 end of year and want to get on the property ladder :smiley:

8 wheel tippers?..

When it’s wet and raining you can get the arse end out no problems with the TC off. :smiley:

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
And being able to get two men to turn up for one shift, one apparently being an experienced man, shows that there is no shortage of drivers even at this time of year.

It ultimately ensures that all the new blood with either leave again shortly or will become radical, and will of course tell their friends what things are like.

I’d suggest that the ‘one’ apparently ‘experienced’ man only turned up because he knew the score regarding the job v what else was on offer and then decided to make a fight of it.At which point the client thought on his feet to diffuse the situation. :smiling_imp: :wink:

Whatever the reason, the simple fact of two people turning up for an agency shift suggests able and willing workers are still ten a penny.

As for new blood telling their friends how it is.Yes an industry being slaughtered for political reasons in terms of an ever increasing amount of local multi drop loads being taken over an ever decreasing amount of distance.Many of those drops often involving the lack of mechanical handling equipment,if not by definition,thereby including the role of labourer.Sometimes to the point where the insult of the role of labourer outweighs the role of ‘driver’.Added to the injury of the total loss of a job which was/should be all about enjoying the freedom of the open road to make up for the downside of a general 12 hour day.

I’m surprised your enemies the railwaymen didn’t get a mention.

Bosses have added labouring to the driving role mainly because they can, and drivers haven’t been willing to stand together to stop them. It is not being “slaughtered for political reasons” except to the extent that you and others keep voting for and supporting the Tory right.

I do agree with you though that traditionally for a driver, idle waiting time or low intensity was the quid pro quo of roles which required working long hours.

On that note there definitely is a shortage of drivers in that regard and an over supply of drivers looking for what decent distance work remains.No doubt to which your answer is transfer as much of that as possible onto rail as possible too.

Ah I started replying before I’d read to the bottom - the railwaymen do get a mention after all!

Rail has always been the backbone of long-distance, high-volume freight.

That said, van and small wagon freight on multi-drop has probably always involved drivers being labourers, but those sorts of roles tend not to involve long hours - at least not intrinsically anyway.

The main challenge is that driving has become an increasingly mental activity, not just because it’s been a generation since vehicles required physical strength to operate, but because traffic levels have increased and the complexity of roads and routes has increased dramatically, as have other mental demands of the job, and that means the last thing most drivers want or can cope with is a physical workout on top.

The fact that the road transport industry is going back to the 1930’s,in being mainly just an essential local delivery service for the shops and building trade etc and less and less as a way to move stuff viably over long distances,is the main reason why we are seeing a pro rata shortage of drivers willing to meet that change.IE people drive trucks because they like driving and seeing new places and going from place to place and getting out of town.By going from one town to another,not from one part of the same town to another.The fact that with that local work often comes more ‘other labouring duties’ just adds insult to injury.

That change being definitely politically driven in the form of a deliberate policy of taking longer haul freight off the roads.It also has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Conservative v Labour in that both are allied in that aim Labour moreso if anything.

So a rare distance bulk pallet delivery job appears on the agency two drivers decide they want to do it.Rather than local multi drop/hiab building deliveries/retail shop work etc etc,often involving lots of handball,while those jobs keep moaning about a ‘driver shortage’.Who would have thought it. :unamused:

I wish that we could scotch the nonsensical myth about driver shortage. If such a thing ever existed we wouldn’t be treated as we are. Lots of areas are not served by rail so some trunk and distance work is there . Its over subscribed so due to market forces its not that well paid.

Carryfast:
The fact that the road transport industry is going back to the 1930’s,in being mainly just an essential local delivery service for the shops and building trade etc and less and less as a way to move stuff viably over long distances,is the main reason why we are seeing a pro rata shortage of drivers willing to meet that change.

There isn’t a shortage of drivers to begin with, except that created by certain employers themselves and within their gift to resolve.

IE people drive trucks because they like driving and seeing new places and going from place to place and getting out of town.By going from one town to another,not from one part of the same town to another.The fact that with that local work often comes more ‘other labouring duties’ just adds insult to injury.

I think it’s a mixed bag to be honest. There are fellas in the world who don’t mind physical labouring, but those who like it most tend not to like sedentary mental labouring, and that’s what a lot of driving involves, and there are those in between who like a bit of both but won’t do extremes of either. Indeed, a person cannot do extremes of both without overwhelming stress or loss of quality of performance in doing it.

And as I say, the roads have changed over time (as have other aspects of the job) and have become significantly more mentally demanding.

The problem is perhaps that employers (and non-professional drivers generally) often like to think that driving basically involves nothing at all, or is even an inherent pleasure - after all, they can drive 30 minutes to work and glide into their normal parking space, or a small journey to the tip with household refuse, without much sweat beading on their brow - and then think they can then add physical labour on top as the only element of actual work in the job of a driver.

In reality there are mental demands in driving for many hours on end, daily, and which is rarely on a fixed and familiar route. Some sites, especially for fellas on multi-drop, are appallingly difficult to access and need careful concentration to wrangle with traffic, pedestrians, and maneouvering obstructions. It can be hard work, that may not wear out the body, but does wear out the faculties of the mind.

And this really is the nub of the problem of recruitment into driving-with-labour roles, that there is often just too much to them.

To use a rail analogy, the engine driver has never been the stoker at the same time, and nor do they take turns, because you cannot perform the mental aspects of the driving role when hyped for significant physical exertion.

Even if you find a fella who will do either, he won’t accept doing both to the normal standard set by the person dedicated to each, much less again to the normal standard set by the person who actually prefers (for reasons of character or habituation) one or the other specifically.

It is not even purely a question of wages, but of the intensity and conditions of the work.

That change being definitely politically driven in the form of a deliberate policy of taking longer haul freight off the roads.It also has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Conservative v Labour in that both are allied in that aim Labour moreso if anything.

The fact is, no government is going to prefer a mode of transport which is more labour intensive, fuel intensive, and generally less efficient (at scale). It is not in anybody’s interests that unnecessary jobs are created simply for the sake of providing you with a scenic daily tour of the motorways. There’s a big difference between spreading necessary work around, and actually creating unnecessary work.

And it is not the rail industry that determines conditions in haulage.

So a rare distance bulk pallet delivery job appears on the agency two drivers decide they want to do it.Rather than local multi drop/hiab building deliveries/retail shop work etc etc,often involving lots of handball,while those jobs keep moaning about a ‘driver shortage’.Who would have thought it. :unamused:

Indeed, a “shortage” for the reasons I mentioned above.

Well that’s this thread ■■■■■■ then

Rjan:

Carryfast:
The fact is, no government is going to prefer a mode of transport which is more labour intensive, fuel intensive, and generally less efficient (at scale). It is not in anybody’s interests that unnecessary jobs are created simply for the sake of providing you with a scenic daily tour of the motorways. There’s a big difference between spreading necessary work around, and actually creating unnecessary work.

So a rare distance bulk pallet delivery job appears on the agency two drivers decide they want to do it.Rather than local multi drop/hiab building deliveries/retail shop work etc etc,often involving lots of handball,while those jobs keep moaning about a ‘driver shortage’.Who would have thought it. :unamused:

Indeed, a “shortage” for the reasons I mentioned above.

But it obviously is necessary and fuel and labour efficient which is why the establishment has to dream up numerous punitive restrictive scams like road fuel taxation.Which is the real reason for this impasse.While yes a ‘scenic tour’ every day and being paid for it and not being expected to trade that for a glorified local delivery and labouring job,is in large part the essential raison de etre as to why ‘drivers’ want/do the job and put up with all its downsides.

So we’re agreed your politically motivated anti truck crusade is being reflected in the form of an all too predictable artificially created ‘driver shortage’ on one hand and drivers effectively fighting among each other for what ever reducing decent jobs might still remain on the other.In which the job ad pages are absolutely saturated with numerous permutations of zb local multi drop/labourer/driver type roles and no driver with any sense wanting to do them.Even the East Europeans seeing the writing on the wall in that regard and going home to where the political climate is more road transport friendly.That’ll fix it.

alamcculloch:
I wish that we could scotch the nonsensical myth about driver shortage. If such a thing ever existed we wouldn’t be treated as we are. Lots of areas are not served by rail so some trunk and distance work is there . Its over subscribed so due to market forces its not that well paid.

^ This.

Too much zb local work not enough drivers wanting to do it and what take up there is totally dependent on who is the most desperate ( or naive ).

Not enough decent distance work and way too many drivers wanting to do it.On that note yes I’d always rather take ( a lot ) less money for distance bulk pallet runs than do local multi drop/building deliveries/handball loads etc etc at any wage.

The-Snowman:
Well that’s this thread [zb] then

It’s concluding as it began.More than one driver turned up to do an increasingly rare decent job at face value.While the local multi drop/labourer/driver etc etc sector moans about a driver shortgage.Who would have thought it.

tachograph:

yourhavingalarf:

seand90:
and said that the clients refused to pay me for today

That…

Has nothing at all to do with you not getting paid.

Your contract is with the agency not the client.

Spot on, I had a couple of agencies claim they couldn’t pay me until they’d been paid, my response was to point out that getting the money off the client wasn’t my problem and I expected to be paid regardless of whether or not the agency got their money.

You work for the agency and they sub you out to their clients so it’s up-to the agency to pay you.

At the end of the day, it boils down to what is written in your agreement with the agency, and also whether you are directly employed by said agency or are working as self-employed, Ltd or under some Umbrella tax avoidance scheme - all three of which could make it far easier for the agency to hold onto the money in the event the client won’t pay.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Carryfast:

Rjan:
[…]

So we’re agreed your politically motivated anti truck crusade is being reflected in the form of an all too predictable artificially created ‘driver shortage’ on one hand and drivers effectively fighting among each other for what ever reducing decent jobs might still remain on the other.In which the job ad pages are absolutely saturated with numerous permutations of zb local multi drop/labourer/driver type roles and no driver with any sense wanting to do them.Even the East Europeans seeing the writing on the wall in that regard and going home to where the political climate is more road transport friendly.That’ll fix it.

Like I say, the decency of jobs in this game hasn’t been determined by those in rail, nor by fuel duties.

This idea that the bosses would pay us more or give us better jobs if only their taxes is lower is tosh. They’d just pocket the cash themselves - if not by haulage bosses themselves, then by the bosses that employ the services of haulage companies. And cut the public services we need to boot.