Coffeeholic:
instructorone:
Err, yes, no one is disputing that you need a break at 6 hours work. What’s your point?Merely answered you:
No where in that does it state 30 minutes must be taken at the 6 hour work point.
Answered what? You haven’t shown where it supposedly says you must have 30 minutes at 6 hours.
Where did i say AT 6 hrs?
As i said on the first page…
After 4.5 hrs driving, or 6 hrs work, (Includes driving and otherwork) you are required to take a minimum break of not less than 45 mins. Unless you are on a maximum of 9 hr working day (9 in total) or less, then a minimum 30 minute break will suffice.
I should of put:
1: After 4.5 hrs driving, you are required to take a minimum break of not less than 45 mins.
2: or 6 hrs work, (Includes less than 4.5 hrs driving and otherwork) then a 30 min break will suffice…so, by the time you’ve done the No: 1 you need the break, or by the time you’ve done No: 2 you need the break…
instructorone:
…
2: or 6 hrs work, (Includes less than 4.5 hrs driving and otherwork) then a 30 min break will suffice…
A 15 minute break will suffice, which is what I said earlier and you said that was wrong.
Coffeeholic:
…in relation to the WTD/RTD 6 hours it is a minimum of 15 minutes.
instructorone:
Thats not right either…4.5 hrs driving, or 6 hrs including other work means a minimum break of 30 mins, under WTD.
Seems from the tone of your posts you now realise your mistake but can’t admit it so are trying to make it look like you didn’t claim it was minimum 30 minutes after 6 hours work You really aren’t a good advert for instructors or training companies in my opinion.
Coffeeholic:
instructorone:
…
2: or 6 hrs work, (Includes less than 4.5 hrs driving and otherwork) then a 30 min break will suffice…A 15 minute break will suffice, which is what I said earlier and you said that was wrong.
Coffeeholic:
…in relation to the WTD/RTD 6 hours it is a minimum of 15 minutes.instructorone:
Thats not right either…Seems from the tone of your posts you now realise your mistake but can’t admit it so are trying to make it look like you didn’t claim it was minimum 30 minutes after 6 hours work You really aren’t a good advert for instructors or training companies in my opinion.
Actually, i said it was 45 mins, and i did admit my mistake…on the page before…it Is 30 mins…
The Regulations require that:
- mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
instructorone:
Actually, i said it was 45 mins, and i did admit my mistake…on the page before…it Is 30 mins…
Yes you did say minimum 45 after 6 hours work and then ‘corrected’ it to 30 minutes, trouble was you corrected it with another mistake. It is minimum 15 minutes after 6 hours work, not 30 minutes, it is 30 minutes total for 6 - 9 hours work.
instructorone:
The Regulations require that:
- mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a
break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
And right there is the problem, you are doing ROG’s old trick of selective reading of the regulations and missing out the relevant bit, coupled with not reading properly the bits you are reading. You missed out this bit - Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each. You obviously aren’t reading what you are quoting because you said earlier -
instructorone:
Its known as the 6 hr break because it must be taken by the time the 6 hrs comes round.
Where does it say it must be taken by the time 6 hours comes round in the bit you quoted?
Anyway, I’ll have to catch up with your delusions on this subject later. 
I have to go to bed now because I have to be up at 03:00 to be in work for 04:00. Unfortunately I won’t be back until Saturday but I’ll look forward to reading more nonsense from you then. Good night. 
I can’t believe how many times the question of the 6 hour rule is discussed and disputed
The regulations are quite clear on this, forgetting about driving time the 6 hour rule requires that you do not exceed 6 hours work before having a break of at least 15 minutes.
In fact nowhere in the regulations does it say how long the break for the 6 hour rule should be therefore it’s assumed to be the shortest break that will count for the WTD or RTD or whatever else you choose to call it and that shortest break is 15 minutes.
Actually we don’t work to the WTD or the RTD … we work to “The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005”
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005:
Breaks
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours
without a break.
(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but
does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break
lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the
worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and
interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than
15 minutes each..
tachograph:
I can’t believe how many times the question of the 6 hour rule is discussed and disputedThe regulations are quite clear on this, forgetting about driving time the 6 hour rule requires that you do not exceed 6 hours work before having a break of at least 15 minutes.
In fact nowhere in the regulations does it say how long the break for the 6 hour rule should be therefore it’s assumed to be the shortest break that will count for the WTD or RTD or whatever else you choose to call it and that shortest break is 15 minutes.
Actually we don’t work to the WTD or the RTD … we work to “The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005”
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005:
Breaks
7. - (1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours
without a break.
(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but
does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break
lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the
worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and
interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than
15 minutes each..
You forgot to say that it is EITHER (2) OR (3) and not both - many get that wrong by thinking it is both - I know - I did !!!
This is not the only LGV driver site where many think that 30 mins must be taken at or before the 6 hour point for the RTD - it took some time to point out that only 15 mins is required - I know how coffeeholic felt when I was convinced it was other - I’m still learning…
ROG:
You forgot to say that it is EITHER (2) OR (3) and not both - many get that wrong by thinking it is both - I know - I did !!!
I didn’t forget I just didn’t see the need as neither paragraph 2 or 3 are relevant to the 6 hour rule 
coffeeholic you make it so easy to understand, very clear, thanks, 
Our driver trainer keeps telling everyone that you have to have 30 minute break on six hours work. I spend a lot of my time putting them right. And it’s thanks to people like coffeholic and tachograph that I understand the regs correctly. They are easy enough to understand when taken in their own context but when read with the rubbish that other people put in your head then you end up confused. I always tell misguided drivers they only need to remember
You must not work more than six hours without a break
If you work between six and nine hours you need 30 minutes of break at some point
If you work more than nine hours you need 45 minutes of break at some point
A break must be at least 15 minutes
Shimples.
i have the answer to this, if you want two take 30 Min’s at 6 hours its your choice your the driver or worker, if you boss wants you to have 30 at 6 hours any it his/her choice your still getting your brake.
the regs are there for your right to have a brake
If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
so as you see the 30 mins is a total of 30 mins so that means you could have 2 15 mins brake between 6 and 9 hours work as long as the first is at 6 hours or before and the second 15 mins is not at the end of your shift
delboytwo:
i have the answer to this, if you want two take 30 Min’s at 6 hours its your choice your the driver or worker, if you boss wants you to have 30 at 6 hours any it his/her choice your still getting your brake.the regs are there for your right to have a brake Yes and a break
If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.so as you see the 30 mins is a total of 30 mins so that means you could have 2 15 mins brake between 6 and 9 hours work as long as the first is at 6 hours or before and the second 15 mins is not at the end of your shift
Yes Del you do seem to have the answer but it’s the next 5 pages that you are likely to write contradicting what you’ve just said that should be of concern to the rest of us
Joking of course mate
tachograph:
delboytwo:
i have the answer to this, if you want two take 30 Min’s at 6 hours its your choice your the driver or worker, if you boss wants you to have 30 at 6 hours any it his/her choice your still getting your brake.the regs are there for your right to have a brake Yes and a break
If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by
a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.so as you see the 30 mins is a total of 30 mins so that means you could have 2 15 mins brake between 6 and 9 hours work as long as the first is at 6 hours or before and the second 15 mins is not at the end of your shift
Yes Del you do seem to have the answer but it’s the next 5 pages that you are likely to write contradicting what you’ve just said that should be of concern to the rest of us
Joking of course mate
i do not contradict my self do i
delboytwo:
i do not contradict my self do i
You do sometimes, mainly when you post quotes from various, often unconnected bits of legislation and don’t actually appear to read them first.
Coffeeholic:
You do sometimes, mainly when you post quotes from various, often unconnected
It’s called - doing a ROG
After reading three pages concerning this discussion, I found that I needed to go back to to Page 1 before I found the most pertinent comment, which is,
Coffeeholic:
Don’t worry about it, no one polices it anyway and even if they do start to there are no penalties at first, it will be education as to where you are going wrong rather than fines or such…
As I have stated before, these Regulations are “Social Legislation”. They are ‘objectives’ albeit with, eventually, penalties. They are standards, imposed by the E.U. which the Industry should ‘strive to achieve’. rather than boundaries that are ‘set in stone’.
Working Time Regulations have been in place in the Health service since…certainly the early 90’s, possibly the late 80’s, although one member whose O/H, works as a nurse, disputed that when I first mentioned it. Perhaps that is simply due to the ‘light-handed’ approach to enforcement that they were simply not aware of the requirements.
Similarly, within the Police Service, equivalent constraints were imposed in the mid 90’s. Eleven hours between shifts. Maximum number of hours to be worked in any given week, and, for many years, some Chief Constables simply chose to ignore it.
Thinking back to the London bombings. Does anyone even assume that ‘managers’ at the time, whether in the NHS, or in any other Service vital to dealing with the incident, would have questioned, or ‘worried’ as to how many hours a particular individual had previously worked within the current week.
And then we had the revelations following the conviction of the ‘copycat’ bombers, and that because of the need to interrogate computers, and the time constraints of detention, people were literally sleeping on office floors. Perhaps I may have missed it but, I’ve not noticed anyone calling for the relevant Government body to launch an investigation as to whether any E.U. Directives were breached.
VOSA have performance targets to be met under E.U. Directives, which relate to Drivers Hours and Opps Licence Regs. Working Time Regs have been ‘dropped in their lap’ as an additional encumbrance. Basically, I would suggest, if they can see a viable recording procedure in place, then they won’t be arsed to look much further. On the basis that it is not within their remit as ‘a box to be ticked’ under their E.U. obligations.