Need some advice re: Failed first test

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi all

Longtime lurker here. I booked lessons for this week at 4 days plus Cat C test directly through a trainer for £1200 + test fee. I had my test today and fluffed it. 6 minors and one serious. Serious was during my independent drive I couldnt see the correct signpost for the destination (i.e was marked as Town Centre but not which Town centre and we were in vicinity of three diff towns - not my area and not one I have been to before my training) and decided to change lane on a roundabout - I signalled checked mirrors and observed car to offside giving way behind truck before proceeding (left lane on roundabout into right lane to go round to next exit.)
I don’t know if that is comprehensively a fail because I do wouldn’t beep at a driver who performed an action like that - truck or car.

Anyway the odd bit is I’ve only had under 7 hours total driving time over the four days ( thats total one on one - no other candidate). I don’t know if I’m being soft and not pushing the trainers for answers but I paid upfront, so screw me i guess. It seems everyone else on this forum has had 12-16 hours behind the wheel time for the same or less money.

What caught me by surprise was £500 retest fee which presumably would be the same under two hours before test and then the use of truck for test. I ended up getting most of my advice off National Driving Centre videos. One bit of advice given to me by the instructor got me a minor fault.

Simply put I cant afford to waste £500 on top of the £1,600 that I also cannot afford (including CPC Module 4) to again get a fail because the truck time hasnt been adequate.

Or shall I just wait and go for the Government scheme- I have all my theories passed, CPC Module 4 and my tachograph so a bit sad - was itching to go.

I should also add the truck was the equivalent of trying to drive a N reg fiesta (with associated issues) for a few hours before your test. I have nothing to benchmark it to so can’t argue that point so if I ever pass and drive something else I’ll be able to confirm that.

Finally not considering myself a driving god and errors are errors but I’m just thinking I set myself up (or was setup to fail) by only accepting 7 hours behind the wheel before a test especially given the cost.

Thanks all -Sorry for the long ramble but really appreciate your thoughts.

2

Not sure I fully understand the reason for the fail, but I trained with the forum sponsor and for the amount you paid, I got 4 days 1 to 1 and each lesson was 3 1/2 hours long, so 14 hours in total. Also all the trucks are fairly new.

Sounds like you’ve been short changed if you only got half that.

I had some correspondence via my MP about government backed schemes and you have to be on a max of about £17k per year currently or unemployed so I wouldn’t qualify for any help.
Since passing my Cat C last Monday, I’ve now been offered 2 jobs, both of which offer opportunity to move up to C+E. There will be a tie in period but I figure this will be well worth it to get to Class 1 and save a couple of grand.

3

Yeah thats what I thought too. The examiner explained that the fault came on a roundabout turning right from a left lane (3rd exit but effectivly straight on - poorly signposted) but on my email it states “Serious - Junctions – Turning right” which is odd as it was a roundabout ■■?

I really cringe at sounding like THAT guy who blames the world for his failure but I’m struggling to see a real world error. The examiner is sat in the passenger seat and my 6ft3 bulk is leaning forward and bouncing up and down blocking his view while checking my offside mirrors and blindspot for hazards,slowing and then indicating before manouvering into the correct exit - no beeps no danger and a car stayed behind after I signalled my intention.

1 hour 30 minutes drive Monday // 1 hour and fifty minutes drive Tuesday // 1 hour 30 minutes on Wednesday and Thursday pre test just over an hour ten minutes. I stated on the Tuesday that the lesson was too short but its just bounced off. I stand there feeling bad for the gentlemen for asking. I’m too soft and ballsed up by not confirming up beforehand the full wheel time before booking and paying. Let that be a lesson for all newbies.

Sorry thing is, I got a quote from Peter Smythe and it wasn’t far off ( I don’t believe in going for the lowest price for the sake of it) but the dates were further away - December as opposed to November if i remember correctly. Plus it was a little further away ( I had just considered getting a Travelodge etc even without the free residential). If the dates had been sooner I would have jumped - reasoning being quicker I get can into work quicker I can pay off loan.

The retest £500 is grating me to be honest - I was quoted 900 (plus vat) for C+E on top when I have C so I asked if I take my C+E course (post Nov 15th no need for C pass first) instead for the difference and I end up with full license for not a lot more and the same as the original budget. The price for C+E suddenly bounced to £1500 as the original is only for courses booked x days after pass.
Makes no sense and I’m just sore seeing prices of £350 for retests bounded about which makes more sense considering £115 fee and 2 hrs training plus 1hr test use.

Again, I’m sorry for the lamenting ramblings of a test failure but I didn’t know if I was being an a*se or if I was being effectively shortchanged - to get the original cost up through a retest or two.

Moving on though does anyone know if I got book a retest elsewhere with another provider - or does it come down to teaching you the routes and vehicle again? Might be worth waiting for the Government scheme? Thanks for reading guys

4

Anyway the odd bit is I’ve only had under 7 hours total driving time over the four days ( thats total one on one - no other candidate). I don’t know if I’m being soft and not pushing the trainers for answers but I paid upfront, so screw me i guess. It seems everyone else on this forum has had 12-16 hours behind the wheel time for the same or less money.

I would enquire how the course times are meant to work. 7 hours is inadequate for a novice and would rely on a fluke to pass. Double that is a lot more normal - as you know.

So far as costs go, PSTT are charging Trucknet users £1314 for 14 hours + time on test + test fee. Most trainers include time on test in their stated hours, but PSTT adds it.

£500 for a retest is a bit on the strong side. The lesson for other folks is to ask more questions before choosing their trainer. Once again, PSTT charge £350 for a retest. Also on offer is £395 Pass Protection which covers THREE retests. That is peace of mind and very popular as it’s what many folk worry about.

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

5

A roundabout is just another type of junction hence why the serious fault is marked in that box.

Turning right from a left lane sounds about as far away from the “defined outcome” as you can get. On your next test if the signage gives you any doubt then ask the examiner for clarification.

6

If the junction was actually straight ahead, regardless if it being the 3rd exit, then no problem using the left lane provided lane markings don’t dictate otherwise. But changing lanes part way through the roundabout might well be an issue, depending on the precise circumstances.

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

7

Thanks Pete

I know I’ve been a fool. I thought when they suggested 3 days then test on day 4 that they would be squeezing what others do in 5 days down into those 4.
On two of the days I’d leave home at 5.15am, travel 1h 15mins to the centre and then stand around for 15 to 30 minutes before keys given to do daily walk around. Then 10 /20 mins later set off on drive. Less than two hours later I’m in my car on the way home. Again, the worlds tiniest violin for this idiot but stuck on the carousel now.

I’ve been reading the forum for a while but only joined in September this year. I even planned on staying in Sutton-in-Ashfield as I’d lived in Nottingham (close enough) for 4 years so knew the area well. I knew you have Pass insurance and also that retests are £350- thats why my jaw dropped when the trainer just casually said £500.
I also went with them because they’re on the forum user recommended schools list.

I am unsure what to do - but it seems like I either pay for a retest - or kiss the training goodbye altogether because you cannot take a retest with another school.

Thing is it was only a £100 between you and this school. The idiot in me A-S-S-UMED that the training hours would be the same or close - it was the purely the test date that suckered me in.

Anyway, now I don’t know what to do - stump up the £500 for another hours lesson and retest (and pray to the DVSA gods) or write it all off and go and sit in a dark corner. The fear of failing again and compounding the debt awakens the anxiety goblins.

Regarding the Fail event which sods law was about 50mins on the way back to test centre. It’s a competely new town to me and although we’ve driven around the area on (7 hours) training it perplexes me that the town didn’t have a “Welcome to Townsville” sign or similar so when I saw a sign saying Town centre (cusp of 3) I’d know which town I was in. I know a competent driver would know where he was going in advance and I understand that but we’re all human. I would think how I respond as a driver would show my safety etc on the roads but its open to interpretation but the Examiners word is final. Yes I did change lane - I even mentioned to the Examiner that the sign was unclear, checked mirror, blindspot and indicated when clear. Surely its to be expected when drivers pass the test and drive in the real world?

Once again I’m not making excuses a fail is a big fat fail. But note also that the hours for training were not declared in advance but told to me at the end of each day i.e First day start at 11.30am, Second day start 9.30am and final two days 6.30am knowing that I drive 1hr 15mins each way to the centre each day and also working to save my self employment so advance notice could have helped. I’ve had a heavy week with little sleep and fighting a truck I’d never driven before. An example - I have never experienced air brakes before. First day straight out the centre gate and on to the road, need brakes? umm brakies not workie -help! Oh they have a lag of about two seconds… good time to tell me when at 20 mph coming up to a junction.

I’m going to say again this isn’t oh look poor me - it’s more oh look stupid me. Newbies don’t, for the love god, spend your money with a trainer either because they’re cheaper or because you’re desperate for an early date like me or even because they’re local to you. Do your research, get it in writing and hold them to it. The bulk of the work is on you to pass your test but make sure you’ve given yourself the best chance. Oh and if you can get Pass insurance like the forum sponsor, do it then your trainer has no incentive in you failing rather the opposite. And if like me you eager to get out there and wanted to rush then note this - I ran around revising for and passing my 3 theories in two days, forms, medical, tacho, CPC Mod 4 ASAP and feeling pleased that I had shortened the time but fell over with the rather obvious and necessary TRAINING AND TEST. Rather important that !
Also if it looks like I’m overly promoting the forum sponsor - It’s because I am - everytime I open the Newbies forum I’m reminded what an arse (See ROG - I listened) I was - not fishing for anything just would appreciate any practical advice pretty much at this point.

Sorry for another long one.
Thanks for reading.

8

I think you have options.
Go with your current trainer for extra training and a retest.
Go to a couple of other trainers for a look and assessment. The assessment is a 2 way process. Let the trainer look at your driving and, at the same time, you have a good look at the trainer.
Depending on where you live, I may be able to suggest a decent trainer.
I struggle a bit with the recommended list on the forum. One recommendation gets the trainer on the list and it doesn’t seem to be monitored or updated.
My advice to all: always visit the trainer and get a feel for their attitude. The only exception is to book on rock solid recommendation. And consider this: the forum sponsor simply can’t afford to screw up. That’s not to say that everything always runs perfectly. Vehicles will sometime conspire against a smooth run and tests are subject to cancellation etc especially during Covid spikes. But it’s a matter of how its dealt with that matters.
And putting everything into context, I am writing as the ex owner of PSTT. My only involvement with them is on an advisory basis and occasionally, I train. So I have no axe to grind.

Hope this helps, Pete S :laughing:

9

I also went with them because they’re on the forum user recommended schools list.

The downside with that list is that many of the recommendations are many years old and things can change without notice

10

ROG >> Hahah now he tells me !! To be fair it’s probably written in BOLD at the top of the page but super know it all (me) glossed straight past to the juicy bits!

Pete >> You’re probably right - It’s a post test fail quandary. The problem with option 1 is it’s £500 for one hour train and then test. On top of the under 7 hours I’ve recieved and £1200 I’ve paid, to only go and fail again is frightening because then I’ll have taken the retest with 8 hours driving (9 If you include the first test) and be £1700 in the red and still stuck to the same location. Eight hours is still not enough against what other schools as you also think for a novice to have a cats chance in hell to pass even their first test. The fail insurance that your ex-owned eponymous business offers seems priceless against this backdrop. If someone on the forum knows of something similar that would help someone in my situation it could be something to consider.

It seems like I’m trying to run a three-legged horse in the Grand National - doomed to fail haha. I think first point to do is actually put my big boy pants on and ask the trainer where my missing hours went? Although they’ll probably laugh me out the door contractually - we don’t have one. I’d like to think they might consult the moral side of things and perhaps come to an arrangement , although the ease and immediacy of the £500 cost for retest after what I’d already lost - I don’t hold out hope.

This is all before I even gone through the trials and tribulations of finding work - leaving work - then finding work. I had planned to write a Training diary blog like the others I’ve been reading on here to show my journey through to C+E.

On a another side note I have to add I paid for £200 CPC training which consisted of a a few sheets of A4 with possible scenarios and how to tie dolly knot drawings on and a 20 minute trainer walk around at 7am with another candidate who had the Mod 4 test (No straps or chains training as it won’t be asked for because of Covid - What about my first day of work when I don’t know how to use a Ratchet strap? Considering I’ve paid for exactly that).
I gleaned the majority of my knowledge from the frankly excellent National Driving Centre “CPC Mod 4” and “Show me Tell me” Youtube videos and the equally brilliant LGV Training Tips pinned thread in the newbie forum. Excellent written and video knowledge, that answered almost every question that comes up on the two tests. Cannot stress that enough.

One thing I should have done is paid attention to the “What to do on your test” video by National Driving Centre, where they say if you go the wrong way on your test - don’t worry about it continue on. I watched that bloomin video a dozen times- If I hadn’t been sleep deprived and remembered those golden words of wisdom I might be sitting here gloating on how I passed my test with Only 7 hours hahah. Never mind weekend starts tomorrow. Thanks guys.

11

Sorry to bother you again. Pete I just did a search on the forum for the CAT C retest and a post popped up from six years ago and you’ve commented on it - Same company! Same inflated retest and same lower hours of training, although he still got more than me haha.

Anyway you mentioned ( I appreciate this was at the time you were probably at the helm of PSTT) that you were able to do Retests for candidates from other schools subject to hourly charge and 10% discount. Plus additonal hourly training at £x per hour. Also that retests after that would be cost price. Does something like that still exist at PSTT or is it all change on deck now?

Many thanks

12

Sorry, but I don’t know. Best just to call the office 01623 555661 and tell them you are a Trucknet user.

Pete S

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That was quick Pete. Thanks I’ll give them a bell.

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I’d probably wait until morning though [emoji23]

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Hussar:
On your next test if the signage gives you any doubt then ask the examiner for clarification.

On the independent drive, I’m guessing and don’t know for sure, I would assume that you cannot ask for advice. In that situation you would just take the exit for the lane you were in. Therefore you might get lost, but it would be safe. As long as it was not an illegal route for HGVs.

16

Which roundabout was it?

Personally I would have just followed the first sign that said “town center”. If you end up in the wrong town center, that’s on the examiner. They know the routes backwards and inside out, so when they tell you to do this, they know exactly where they are and where they expect you to end up just following the signs.

17

stu675:

Hussar:
On your next test if the signage gives you any doubt then ask the examiner for clarification.

On the independent drive, I’m guessing and don’t know for sure, I would assume that you cannot ask for advice. In that situation you would just take the exit for the lane you were in. Therefore you might get lost, but it would be safe. As long as it was not an illegal route for HGVs.

Correct. The examiner is off-limits during the test. You can ask for clarification (“this town center?”), but nothing more.

18

TruckerGuy:

stu675:

Hussar:
On your next test if the signage gives you any doubt then ask the examiner for clarification.

On the independent drive, I’m guessing and don’t know for sure, I would assume that you cannot ask for advice. In that situation you would just take the exit for the lane you were in. Therefore you might get lost, but it would be safe. As long as it was not an illegal route for HGVs.

Correct. The examiner is off-limits during the test. You can ask for clarification (“this town center?”), but nothing more.

Shouldn’t the trainer take the trainee through some mock routes for the test? Just sounds like the trainer hasn’t really prepped the trainee very well at all.

My partner just had a car test and was taken on 6 different routes so that he had a good enough idea of the roads and stuff.

19

bugger.lugs:
I’d probably wait until morning though [emoji23]

Hahah yeah I don’t think they would have appreciated that.

20

stu675:

Hussar:
On your next test if the signage gives you any doubt then ask the examiner for clarification.

On the independent drive, I’m guessing and don’t know for sure, I would assume that you cannot ask for advice. In that situation you would just take the exit for the lane you were in. Therefore you might get lost, but it would be safe. As long as it was not an illegal route for HGVs.

Yeah it was at the end of the end of the independent drive - I did say to the examiner that the sign isn’t clear and and I need that one I think, before checking,siganlling and manouvering. But yeah independent drive so I don’t think they have an input -thing is I’ve ballsed up destinations on roundabouts during the training (new area to me) and done exactly the same or gone right round the roundabout again (safe manner) not once did the trainer say don’t do that on your test just continue on and adapt your route at the next opportunity. I actually learnt that throught National driving centre videos. Too bad I didn’t remember on the actual test haha