Near Miss, Reality Check on A12

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Not me usual lite trollin or ■■■■■■ innuendo post but an event occured that caused me to take stock and realise im not as good a driver as I think I am.

Happened on the A12, usual scenario quite busy but travelling at a good pace 52mph.
Anyway I was on adaptive cruise (for noobs thats the mode where the truck will brake for you and keep a set distance to the vehicle in front, but it does ignore vehicles cutting in).

So im a really safe distance from the truck in front who overtook me earlier and having eased off a bit due to the usual early cut in im back on the acc cruise tootling along, relaxed and enjoying the scenery.

Phone rings and as im on hands free proceed to have a chat with a colleague, usual banter involving how I would like to shag his missus etc.

Van on my offside is overtaking nothing unusual yet but making a bit of a meal of it.
Suddenley van cuts in, instinctively I hit the engine brake as acc hasnt picked him up, van brakes, im blinded to what is happening ahead so have to brake, van brakes harder, I brake harder but being almost full weight the trailer is taking the strain and literally pulling me back.

[I should inject here that when your trailer is pulling you back you are relying on the grip of the trailer wheels, due to the weight and physics involved if these let go its unlikely the unit at 1/4 of the weight will be able to hold it back at speed, leading to a potential jacknife/tea spillage event of massive proportions. Remember braking only slows the revolution of the wheels, slowing the vehicle is a secondary event reliant on grip]

So now im saying on the phone WTF is this ■■■■ doing, this is more than your usual late junction event we are in crash for cash territory now.
Due to the sudden panic lane change by the van I can now see the reason for the harsh braking, the truck I mentioned earlier has broken down and is now beckoning to embrace me in a life changing way.

Luckily the van moving out the way has give me enough braking room to stop and look in the mirror to see my outside lane is clear. So over I go and bizarely the road behind is quite empty.

Hard to put in words but if the van hadnt moved over I doubt I would have been able to stop, que squashed van driver and badly injured me at the least.

Now remember I was on the phone, how would this look at an enquiry.

The following 2 hours drive allowed me to replay this incident and I can only conclude even though I was hands free, my reaction/observation time was affected enough that the van driver would have been my crumple zone if he hadnt moved out the way.

Perhaps we need these near misses to remind us that given the right ingredients no matter how good or relaxed the driving conditions appear to be in reality we are only one lapse of concentration away from death.

2

So would you shag his missus? :open_mouth:

3

The answer regarding how would it have looked had it all gone wrong is that your mobile phone records would more than likely be checked. I work with traffic police at times, some of who are accident investigation specialists - mobile records are a standard check in fatalities.

If it was decided the mobile was governing factor in the incident they would also look towards the operator if it was proven the call was work related.

In all seriousness - had you not been on the phone, do you think you’d have seen more or reacted earlier? Do you think the call affected your normal standards?

4

If I’ve read it right the main issue was the zb driving standards of the van driver.Having said that how did the van also wipe out your visibility ahead of it assuming a decent height truck cab.In either case you needed to be on the brakes not the exhaust brake before that point because it’s already developing into a potential emergency stop situation. :bulb:

5

I wrote off a car when I was 17, and had a couple of spin outs in the same year. I definitely feel I’m a better driver for having experienced a few at fault incidents of myself compared to somebody who doesn’t know what it feels like to be involved in something like that.

6

Even on hands free, its scary how much your concentration drops. Its not too bad on a quiet motorway but I very rarely take calls when in busy town centres now and even then its only to tell them I’ll call them back when I stop. Had one a little while ago on the A5 from Towcester heading to Milton Kenyes, bombing along at 50mph when this old boy just pulls out right in front of me. I had no time to brake, only swerve and hope that I missed the traffic islands. Thank god nothing was coming in the on-coming lane. I was at the time on the hands free to my mother who did not like the torrent of blue language that followed said event but as Dipper says, how would it look on me that I’d been on the phone abet using hands free?

7

shep532:
The answer regarding how would it have looked had it all gone wrong is that your mobile phone records would more than likely be checked. I work with traffic police at times, some of who are accident investigation specialists - mobile records are a standard check in fatalities.

If it was decided the mobile was governing factor in the incident they would also look towards the operator if it was proven the call was work related.

In all seriousness - had you not been on the phone, do you think you’d have seen more or reacted earlier? Do you think the call affected your normal standards?

In all honesty I would have to say yes, even though I feel like im concentrating on traffic as normal as a priority theres been times ive missed my junction due to waffling on, maybe just me but my conclusion was that if I had not been on the phone I may have been more aware the truck in front was slowing even though the van blinded me to it there was a feeling that ‘somethings wrong’, a gut instinct if you will but I cant help but feel my concentration on the road ahead was not 100%.

Not to be a drama queen, tuning the radio or changing the heater setting may have been an equal distraction but I was annoyed with myself for the near miss a long time after.

8

Carryfast:
If I’ve read it right the main issue was the zb driving standards of the van driver.Having said that how did the van also wipe out your visibility ahead of it assuming a decent height truck cab.In either case you needed to be on the brakes not the exhaust brake before that point because it’s already developing into a potential emergency stop situation. :bulb:

High roof van slight dip in the road approaching the down hill drop on the A12 southbound about 5mile from A14, but the vans actions are the usual non event stuff, early cut in, ease off if needed then back to normal cruise. To be fair usually theres no need to ease off but this bugger was struggling to get past.
I could have eased off to help like I do with trucks, but being a van I thought he will be fine.

Thats just it, I should have recognised the possibility of issues earlier, that instinct you get after years on the road. If it wasnt for that gut feeling as events unfolded that this was something more serious I may not be typing this now.

I cant blame the van even though I did at the time, looking back on it hours after all I could think was that im better than this.

9

Dipper_Dave:

shep532:
The answer regarding how would it have looked had it all gone wrong is that your mobile phone records would more than likely be checked. I work with traffic police at times, some of who are accident investigation specialists - mobile records are a standard check in fatalities.

If it was decided the mobile was governing factor in the incident they would also look towards the operator if it was proven the call was work related.

In all seriousness - had you not been on the phone, do you think you’d have seen more or reacted earlier? Do you think the call affected your normal standards?

In all honesty I would have to say yes, even though I feel like im concentrating on traffic as normal as a priority theres been times ive missed my junction due to waffling on, maybe just me but my conclusion was that if I had not been on the phone I may have been more aware the truck in front was slowing even though the van blinded me to it there was a feeling that ‘somethings wrong’, a gut instinct if you will but I cant help but feel my concentration on the road ahead was not 100%.

Not to be a drama queen, tuning the radio or changing the heater setting may have been an equal distraction but I was annoyed with myself for the near miss a long time after.

During some DCPC courses we cover mobile phone use and I meet A LOT of drivers who point blank insist a hands free call does not affect their driving. It is refreshing to hear someone actually own up and realise it just could have been some of the problem.

There is just something different about a phone conversation and tuning the radio. Although I am sure some drivers manage better than others I believe the majority are distracted.

10

Javiatrix:
I wrote off a car when I was 17, and had a couple of spin outs in the same year. I definitely feel I’m a better driver for having experienced a few at fault incidents of myself compared to somebody who doesn’t know what it feels like to be involved in something like that.

Yep safe drivers have often experienced an accident or near miss, that doesnt mean good drivers have to do this just its a reality check when it does happen.

My licence is as clean as a babys bottom (which is more than can be said for my bottom) but a lot of this is down to luck, plus I did most of my dodgy driving before I passed me test or reached puberty for that matter.

11

Evil8Beezle:
So would you shag his missus? :open_mouth:

Definately, unfortunately this bugger is the atypical F’ugly but hung like a horse, I had to touch it once out of curiosity, not in a gay way though, honest.

12

shep532:

Dipper_Dave:

shep532:
The answer regarding how would it have looked had it all gone wrong is that your mobile phone records would more than likely be checked. I work with traffic police at times, some of who are accident investigation specialists - mobile records are a standard check in fatalities.

If it was decided the mobile was governing factor in the incident they would also look towards the operator if it was proven the call was work related.

In all seriousness - had you not been on the phone, do you think you’d have seen more or reacted earlier? Do you think the call affected your normal standards?

In all honesty I would have to say yes, even though I feel like im concentrating on traffic as normal as a priority theres been times ive missed my junction due to waffling on, maybe just me but my conclusion was that if I had not been on the phone I may have been more aware the truck in front was slowing even though the van blinded me to it there was a feeling that ‘somethings wrong’, a gut instinct if you will but I cant help but feel my concentration on the road ahead was not 100%.

Not to be a drama queen, tuning the radio or changing the heater setting may have been an equal distraction but I was annoyed with myself for the near miss a long time after.

During some DCPC courses we cover mobile phone use and I meet A LOT of drivers who point blank insist a hands free call does not affect their driving. It is refreshing to hear someone actually own up and realise it just could have been some of the problem.

There is just something different about a phone conversation and tuning the radio. Although I am sure some drivers manage better than others I believe the majority are distracted.

An actual phone conversation arguably might interfere with the driving process which arguably goes along the lines of a continuous unspoken running commentary with yourself.

Although the problem described here could just as easily be a flaw in that commentary itself.IE the van has cut in a bit closer than ideal thereby affecting seperation distance combined with also reducing the visibility required ahead to an unacceptable level.It’s time to get on the brakes and reduce speed considerably sooner rather than later.As opposed to the wrong call of just applying engine braking regardless of the phone distraction. :bulb:

13

Dipper_Dave:

shep532:
The answer regarding how would it have looked had it all gone wrong is that your mobile phone records would more than likely be checked. I work with traffic police at times, some of who are accident investigation specialists - mobile records are a standard check in fatalities.

If it was decided the mobile was governing factor in the incident they would also look towards the operator if it was proven the call was work related.

In all seriousness - had you not been on the phone, do you think you’d have seen more or reacted earlier? Do you think the call affected your normal standards?

In all honesty I would have to say yes, even though I feel like im concentrating on traffic as normal as a priority theres been times ive missed my junction due to waffling on, maybe just me but my conclusion was that if I had not been on the phone I may have been more aware the truck in front was slowing even though the van blinded me to it there was a feeling that ‘somethings wrong’, a gut instinct if you will but I cant help but feel my concentration on the road ahead was not 100%.

Not to be a drama queen, tuning the radio or changing the heater setting may have been an equal distraction but I was annoyed with myself for the near miss a long time after.

theres been times ive missed my junction due to waffling on

I have to admit - I am guilty of this - few weeks ago, listening to my mate waffling on I missed the junction for the M40 off the 25,
does make you think about it !!
m

14

Reality check… Don’t drive and use a mobile phone is the simplest answer…

Cannot see who your suppose to be concentrating on the road 100% whilst engaged in conversation

15

I’m no angel, I’ll quite happily talk bollox for hours (hands free) whilst I’m driving. If you want to find out how much it affects your concentration just try reversing into a tight spot/bay whilst talking. You WILL mess it up.

16

the maoster:
I’m no angel, I’ll quite happily talk bollox for hours (hands free) whilst I’m driving. If you want to find out how much it affects your concentration just try reversing into a tight spot/bay whilst talking. You WILL mess it up.

Funny you should say this, I have many times been in a pointless conversation as I have arrived at a hub, gone through the gate, round the building, got to the bays & said to the other caller, “I 'll have to call you back, I’m just backing on the bay”
So subconsciously(how do you spell that?) I must have been aware that I can’t give it full concentration.
Another lesson learnt

17

Dipper_Dave:
Not me usual lite trollin or ■■■■■■ innuendo post but an event occured that caused me to take stock and realise im not as good a driver as I think I am.

Happened on the A12, usual scenario quite busy but travelling at a good pace 52mph.
Anyway I was on adaptive cruise (for noobs thats the mode where the truck will brake for you and keep a set distance to the vehicle in front, but it does ignore vehicles cutting in).

So im a really safe distance from the truck in front who overtook me earlier and having eased off a bit due to the usual early cut in im back on the acc cruise tootling along, relaxed and enjoying the scenery.

Phone rings and as im on hands free proceed to have a chat with a colleague, usual banter involving how I would like to shag his missus etc.

Van on my offside is overtaking nothing unusual yet but making a bit of a meal of it.
Suddenley van cuts in, instinctively I hit the engine brake as acc hasnt picked him up, van brakes, im blinded to what is happening ahead so have to brake, van brakes harder, I brake harder but being almost full weight the trailer is taking the strain and literally pulling me back.

[I should inject here that when your trailer is pulling you back you are relying on the grip of the trailer wheels, due to the weight and physics involved if these let go its unlikely the unit at 1/4 of the weight will be able to hold it back at speed, leading to a potential jacknife/tea spillage event of massive proportions. Remember braking only slows the revolution of the wheels, slowing the vehicle is a secondary event reliant on grip]

So now im saying on the phone WTF is this [zb] doing, this is more than your usual late junction event we are in crash for cash territory now.
Due to the sudden panic lane change by the van I can now see the reason for the harsh braking, the truck I mentioned earlier has broken down and is now beckoning to embrace me in a life changing way.

Luckily the van moving out the way has give me enough braking room to stop and look in the mirror to see my outside lane is clear. So over I go and bizarely the road behind is quite empty.

Hard to put in words but if the van hadnt moved over I doubt I would have been able to stop, que squashed van driver and badly injured me at the least.

Now remember I was on the phone, how would this look at an enquiry.

The following 2 hours drive allowed me to replay this incident and I can only conclude even though I was hands free, my reaction/observation time was affected enough that the van driver would have been my crumple zone if he hadnt moved out the way.

Perhaps we need these near misses to remind us that given the right ingredients no matter how good or relaxed the driving conditions appear to be in reality we are only one lapse of concentration away from death.

Who loaded?

18

Reading the post(s) has made me reconsider my own actions. I have also missed junctions when engaged in a ‘hands free’ conversation but until now I have never gave the potential implications of this any in-depth thought - glad that DD made the post, it certainly made me stop and think - Cheers :smiley:

Now get back to the trollin smutty ■■■■■■ innuendo stuff!! :wink:

EDIT:: My apologies DD I see from your latest posts that you are already back on top form! :laughing:

19

MickyB666:
Reading the post(s) has made me reconsider my own actions. I have also missed junctions when engaged in a ‘hands free’ conversation but until now I have never gave the potential implications of this any in-depth thought - glad that DD made the post, it certainly made me stop and think - Cheers :smiley:

Now get back to the trollin smutty ■■■■■■ innuendo stuff!! :wink:

EDIT:: My apologies DD I see from your latest posts that you are already back on top form! :laughing:

Yep, doesn’t take him too long to get back on track ! :laughing: :laughing:

20

So this clever bit of bloody kit, what’s it called adaptive cruise, doesn’t that come together with automatic emergency braking too…if it does then presumably a similar system will be on the robot lorries, if it works as well on them as it did for you our jobs are safe for generations.

Luckily i tipped with one of our lads last week who’s got this adaptive plus automatic braking, he let it slip how to switch the garbage off, that’s all i wanted to know when i have to drive one of those.

TBH DD, i’m not so sure (guessing cos i wasn’t there silly) that the phone was a contributory factor, those things happen very quickly when they do, (oh and you know these fantastic brakes we have now well they aint so bloody great when you need 'em like), a few times now the cctv geezer covering west mids must have gone for a ■■■■■ cos i’ve encountered broken down cars on the M6 elevated live running hard shoulder and nearby several times over the last 3 years, even at 50mph its surprising how quickly you’re closing on that car whilst braking and trying to get out into the next lane without causing mayhem.

Funny thing in these situations though, driver hands on feel kicks in, where you see car and van drivers brake and swerve all at once, have you noticed that you instinctively won’t do that with a loaded lorry because you can feel in the seat of your pants what the outcome will be, almost as if there’s a G force (not G Spot Dave) sensor up yer arse.