National Vocational Driving Instructor Register UPDATE

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
21

elmet training:
Forgive me but I’m a little confused with it all. Would it be a fair assessment the RTITB has more merit at present?

Surely their should be only one register doesn’t bode well when the two governing bodies are in competition with each other.

Paul :smiley:

Paul your first statement, as things stand, are factual rather than a fair statement.

A similar situation occurred with Forklift training a few years ago and the main parties formed a governing body meaning everyone sang from the same song sheet. IMO having more than 1 register does no more than de-value the qualification even more.

I personally have been a DVSA registered Instructor for many years, passing the Driving ability with nil faults twice( last 2 re- registrations) and scoring straight 6’s on both Instructional ability elements. These were independently assessed by an Examiner who had “no financial incentive to judge me” and this for me was a very fair way.

I would like to hope that the industry moves forward in a positive way, customers deserve the best service. I need a lot of convincing about this - and We as a business were never consulted regarding the way forward.

John

22

I don’t see the problem. There are 2 registers. 1 is industry led by a group of extremely enthusiastic trainers keen to achieve and maintain the highest possible standards in the industry. There are NO costs passed to anyone for the operation of the register. It’s set up costs have been borne by the Panel Members. There is no commercial gain from the register. (unless you want to include a handful of test fees which bear a tiny profit element - but not enough to cover the cost of setting up the register!)

The 2nd is a commercial organisation that is known for it’s top heavy management.

Look at the costs: Current DVSA instructors can transfer to BOTH registers at no cost.
On expiry, RTITB will want 4 tests and £555. NVDIR is 1 test and £140.
Unqualified instructors would pay RTITB £555 for 4 tests initially. This includes teaching a classroom session - something foreign to most instructors. The same group would pay £300 for 3 tests with NVDIR with no classroom requirement. All the tests can be done in one day. If any resits are needed, credits are given for the passes for 12 months from the date of the first test pass. So flexibility and common sense is key.

For centre registration the benefit is presence on another website, the knowledge that the same standard has been achieved as was expected by DVSA. This is all done independently by an outside auditor. The cost is £250 + travel - - so half the DVSA fee. Not sure what the RTITB fee is.

I can send you the information if it helps.

To address your comment that you weren’t consulted: this is because you weren’t in a recognised group. In this particular case, LGV Accredited Training Centre. Had you followed that route you would have been consulted the same as everybody else in the group was. We now have direct lines of communication with the folks at the top of DVSA and this is invaluable. Any centre on the register will get precisely the same benefit.

But the future is bright if we join together. We can battle the brokers, influence decisions from DVSA and there are other benefits I can see in the future. I don’t see what you have to lose by joining and, personally, I’d be very pleased to have you on board. But the choice is yours.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

23

Peter Smythe:
I don’t see the problem. There are 2 registers. 1 is industry led by a group of extremely enthusiastic trainers keen to achieve and maintain the highest possible standards in the industry. There are NO costs passed to anyone for the operation of the register. It’s set up costs have been borne by the Panel Members. There is no commercial gain from the register. (unless you want to include a handful of test fees which bear a tiny profit element - but not enough to cover the cost of setting up the register!)

The 2nd is a commercial organisation that is known for it’s top heavy management.

Look at the costs: Current DVSA instructors can transfer to BOTH registers at no cost.
On expiry, RTITB will want 4 tests and £555. NVDIR is 1 test and £140.
Unqualified instructors would pay RTITB £555 for 4 tests initially. This includes teaching a classroom session - something foreign to most instructors. The same group would pay £300 for 3 tests with NVDIR with no classroom requirement. All the tests can be done in one day. If any resits are needed, credits are given for the passes for 12 months from the date of the first test pass. So flexibility and common sense is key.

For centre registration the benefit is presence on another website, the knowledge that the same standard has been achieved as was expected by DVSA. This is all done independently by an outside auditor. The cost is £250 + travel - - so half the DVSA fee. Not sure what the RTITB fee is.

I can send you the information if it helps.

To address your comment that you weren’t consulted: this is because you weren’t in a recognised group. In this particular case, LGV Accredited Training Centre. Had you followed that route you would have been consulted the same as everybody else in the group was. We now have direct lines of communication with the folks at the top of DVSA and this is invaluable. Any centre on the register will get precisely the same benefit.

But the future is bright if we join together. We can battle the brokers, influence decisions from DVSA and there are other benefits I can see in the future. I don’t see what you have to lose by joining and, personally, I’d be very pleased to have you on board. But the choice is yours.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Pete

You are probably one of the most professional and experienced Instructors on this forum, and I respect you for that.

Please don’t insult me by saying you don’t see the problem - this means you didn’t read my post fully.

Any register needs to have credibility and of course accreditation. Cost should never be an issue- we’re cheaper doesn’t cut it unless I’m getting exactly the same product so please don’t quote figures to me.

You are always pushing accreditation unless someone has a cast iron recommendation- can’t argue with that.

As for not being consulted because I’m not DVSA accredited, you know as well as I do this means nothing, I can name 2 companies who have been on this register who have been done for fraud.

I am all for our industry, which I am passionate about,being professional and regulated, as we spoke about at the meeting in Leicester a few years ago - still looking for an answer.

John

24

Peter I personally think you need to go back to the drawing board if this register has any chance of succeeding.

As John states there was no consultation with reputable training companies who had registered instructors and are well thought of in the training industry. I accept this was probably out of your hands.

It was a chance to get things right from the outset but unfortunately this was over looked.

It might have been better to write to training providers to notify them of the changes to the register, I feel it’s been dragged through the mud already being on a public forum which doesn’t give it a good start.

I personally can’t fault your commitment to this but having my own views and spoken to other trainers I definitely think it needs to be reviewed already if it is to work and it’s not too late.

All trainers on here want what’s best for the industry.

Paul

25

I have been following this subject with great interest and take my hat off to Pete for the huge effort this is obviously taking. Perhaps a public forum is not the best place to iron out details. Could you imagine the DVSA going public before final decisions are made. However it does allow trainers who would otherwise have no input to comment and express views.

One big concern with both registers is who actually conducts these Pass/Fail tests. Formally only senior DVSA examiners performed those but it appears that now it will be trainers testing trainers. What experience or qualification of assessing performance have they got? There is little or even no connection or similarities between training and fault assessing.

To be credible the tests must be independent. The register that takes this key point on board will become the De facto industry standard.

26

I started this thread for a couple of reasons: to give the excellent trainers who use the forum up to date information about their choices and invite them to join the register in recognition of their skills and professionalism. Some good points have been made and, where possible, changes have resulted. It is now up to the trainers to decide whether they want to join or not.

The other reason is to emphasise to those looking for training that the industry is totally unregulated. But by using a registered instructor - regardless of which register - there is at least some measure of assurance that the person has gone through a series of assessments to achieve that registration. Clearly, it’s up to the potential new driver so see a value in that or otherwise.
’
I have now spent far too long defending a product I totally believe in. I’m not prepared to spend more time on a public forum continuing spurious arguments. But, if any instructor wants to talk to me, I’m extremely happy to continue the conversation. You all have my contact details.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

27

Chevmac and Paul have valid points, but you do not have the time or inclination to discuss these topics Peter? Then why post on about it in the first place? I thought this was your baby?

I have made my points clear on this subject and neither schemes have convinced me my business will operate better as a result of investing in them.

Peter you have also been promoting this scheme like it is going out of fashion. Another of the forum sponsors, Ritchies have been a little more subdued and not ragged the ■■■ out of it.

Perhaps Ritchies is thinking it is better to let professional LGV trainers (and companies) make up their own minds on whether to go for it rather than having it rammed down their throats!!

I think most trainers now know the options Peter, why not just let them decide Instead of trying to make the choice for them.

28

It is now up to the trainers to decide whether they want to join or not.

29

This was a chance to get some sort of small recognition or icon symbol in the the industry similar to what’s in the building trades to help distinguish between good and cowboy builders.

All was needed was a company who is on the trainer booking system to recieve a letter to invite them to apply to join the scheme. Could of help rid the brokers as they wont be on this system.

A short visit to have a look at what they have to offer and ask a few questions would suffice like we as trainers encourage trainees to do.

I’m bitterly disappointed how an opportunity like this has been missed.

It could of been a start

A ■■■■■■ off

Paul

30

I have not commented on this idea. I believed it was best to be left to the trainers to work out. I will say that Peter did inform me of an outline of the plans, and I raised some concerns.

I have long advocated all trainers joining together to create an industry body, that is inclusive of all respected trainers . This hasn’t happened , if it had then this scheme could have been industry led and garnered far more support.

I warned last year that if trainers could not put aside commercial interests , then sooner or later and outside body would be imposed to create a industry standard. That I fear has come to pass, because the discussion was led by DVSDA accredited trainers and not by a trade association only a few trainers have been involved/consulted.

You are now in the situation where the RITTB has taken the register out of your hands, the RITTB will now tell you what is expected by your own business to reach their standards.

I am sorry but your failure as an industry to create a trade association - inclusive of all, DVSA registered or not has led to this. Don’t blame Peter or the other guys who thought up the alternative scheme, they worked with what they had. You had a chance to join together to create standards and policies and be part of the discussions - non of you took that on- don’t cry now that the result is unfair.

You still have a chance- create a trade association, adopt the RTITB or NVDIR scheme and work all together to make that the industry standard on your terms collectively. If you don’t start working together, gaining a unified voice then I can say with some certainty that this register is only the start of legislation that will affect you that you have no voice over.

Wake up guys… :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

31

As a recently newly appointed driver trainer who doesnt have a dsa qualification all Im looking for is some guidance, help and training from a company that can help develop my skills to provide my drivers with the correct guidance and instruction. I like Peter’s enthusiasm and comments and surely any scheme that helps us do our job is better than none at all although I do understand people have to be convinced.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

32

If you would like some guidance or training just send me pm.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

33

Who is going to be responsible for the accreditation of training centres now? NVDIR and RTITB or just NVDIR?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

34

Ricki you make some very valid “unbiased” points.

Sometimes it takes an outside point of view to highlight issues. As long as those involved have commercial interest then I’m sure it’s easy to forget that the interest of the industry won’t always come first, not that I would say this about the 2 current registers.

On that note my personal belief is that 2 registers does no more than dilute an already unregulated industry, surely if we want the best for our customers then there should be one way forward? Set standards, independently assessed with a clear charter. Which register is the way forward depends on your needs.

The idea of a trainer led consortium has been banded about for at least 4-5 years that I know of, it’s such a shame that because we all didn’t belong to the DVSA gang!! - nobody saw the need to asked for our opinion BEFORE telling us what we should do now. Before anyone takes offence the same applies to RTITB, Petes register and DVSA non of whom consulted the those of us who don’t matter, but do the job day in and day out.

It’s just a shame we have let it get it to this stage - hey ho - all we want is answers - shame both registers don’t have someone on trucknet who would answer the questions.

35

paulweller84:
Who is going to be responsible for the accreditation of training centres now? NVDIR and RTITB or just NVDIR?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you mean with the DVSA endorsement then it’s RTITB, but I’m sure Pete will be happy to help you with the NVDIR guidelines on their accreditation

36

But, if any instructor wants to talk to me, I’m extremely happy to continue the conversation. You all have my contact details.

37

I’m not sure what newbies wanting to come into the industry are thinking now viewing this topic.

On reflection this should never been debated on here and is a complete embarrassment to the industry irrespective of the fors and against.

May I suggest the admin team remove the topic as its doing no good whatsoever.

Even though I’m as guilty adding my views to the topic IMO it shouldn’t of been open to debate on here.

Paul

38

Paul calm down. The point of forums is to be public and let people voice their views. I doubt many people looking for training are bothering to read the posts anymore. All they want is a decent trainer at a decent price.

If the DVSA register didn’t encourage more than half the nations trainers to join I doubt anything would.

How does a trainer, new or old benefit from joining any register. In fact it’s more credible for a LGV trainer to become an ADI

I suggest both parties get together and invite every trainer in the UK to a 1 off meeting to discuss and vote for a final binding outcome.

To be eligible to vote you agree to support the outcome.

I’m proposing the equivalent of an LGV Brexit. Clean and sorted

39

elmet training:
I’m not sure what newbies wanting to come into the industry are thinking now viewing this topic.

On reflection this should never been debated on here and is a complete embarrassment to the industry irrespective of the fors and against.

May I suggest the admin team remove the topic as its doing no good whatsoever.

Even though I’m as guilty adding my views to the topic IMO it shouldn’t of been open to debates on here.

Now let’s do the proffesional thing and let’s have it removed from public viewing.

Paul

Unless you have an alternative way of talking about what is an obvious issue, how are you going to resolve what is an issue? I agree that T/Net is not ideal for in depth discussion, but it is a starting point, at least we have you talking, and airing the differences. It is apparent there are deep rooted differences of opinion, but there is from you all a desire to regulate the industry in a way that encompasses all, You can all use this forum to make the initial steps. and grow from that. I don’t see that as unprofessional - just the opposite I would guess that potential clients would view those taking an active part in creating a professional body as more trust worthy- but as I said earlier over to you guys, lets see if you can salvage something from the mess you now find yourselves in

40

I suggest both parties get together and invite every trainer in the UK to a 1 off meeting to discuss and vote for a final binding outcome.

I don’t know if means anything, but I think I am pretty unbiased (apart from the fact I think you guys should get organised) so I would be willing to chair such a meeting… with a couple of proviso’s