Hi, im a tarmac tipper driver, over the last couple of months or so i have been training new starters. He drives so his card is in slot 1 and mine is in slot 2.
When we get to the plant we pull up and swap cards over then i drive into the plant and get loaded (new starters cant load yet). After we pull back up and swap cards back then he carrys on driving.
My manager has said that i have a bunch of infringements for multi-manning. Every time im swapping cards and stuff?
What HE told me to do, which i know is wrong, is to leave my card in slot 2 all day and drive into the plant with my card in slot 2. So hes telling me to drive on sombody elses card, even he its only for 5 minutes or so that is illegal.
Just a bit more information when i do this we both take the same breaks. This isn’t really multi-manning because we are taking the same breaks i would if i was on my own. Both tachos go on break at same time.
So my question is… am i doing what i should be doing and does anybody have the full rule of the law regarding driving on sombody elses card. My manager seems to think its fine to do, which we all know you cant. Thanks.
Yes you are doing it correctly. You never drive using someone else’s card that is a big no no. Swapping cards is the correct way to do it. If you take your appropriate breaks then it’s fine. Also the first 45 mins of poa in slot 2 whilst driver 1 is driving is accepted as a tacho break by DVSA for double manning.
I’d be asking what infringements you are getting and why.
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Tacho software can give you infringements if it is not set up properly for double manning rules if using slot 2 POA as break whilst another driver is driving, but as you said you both take your breaks together then that isn’t what is causing the infringements. You are putting both card 1 and card 2 both on break at the same time?
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Ask him to show you legally where it says you can drive using someone else’s card! He won’t be able to. A driver card is the property of the driver it belongs to, and you would be committing an offence of falsification of records to let someone else drive using your card or driving using their card.
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Using a Driver’s card belonging to another
By driving using another person’s tachograph card, a driver is creating a false record. The DVSA / VOSA will want to investigate why the other card was used, and how it was obtained. This offence can carry up to two years in prison. The authorities will want to know whether the Operator was aware that a driver was using another’s card. Operators who fail to notice this happening, or are complicit in it, can expect to be either prosecuted or called to Public Inquiry by the Traffic Commissioner.
smithbowyerclarke.co.uk/service … n%20prison.
commercialmotor.com/news/ar … wrong-card
False entry or alteration of a record with the intent to deceive. On summary conviction Level 5 fine or on indictment 2 years’ imprisonment
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … -penalties
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Are you doing a manual entry for every time you remove and reinsert your card? Even if it’s just a minute that is missing, you have to account for it.
When i questioned it he said it has flagged up on the system as double manning canceled. So maybe the tacho isn’t set up correctly like you said. I told him i cant drive on sombody else’s card and hes going to look into it. He also said he’s been telling other people to drive on sombody else’s card when training. He’s quite new and as it turns out doesnt know what hes doing.
As already said, dont drive on someone elses card. That cant be stressed too hard. See if they will put that instruction in writing? Even if they do dont do it, but I`ll bet they change their tune.
A Simcor has said it should be mad clear to you exactly what is alleged to be wrong.
ChessNate:
When i questioned it he said it has flagged up on the system as double manning canceled.
What does that mean? Did he explain that to you?
Ill bet any sheet with infringements you are expected to sign says "I have had these infringements explained to me" ? If you dont understand what you are alleged doing wrong: Do Not Sign. Maybe someone who does know what is happening will get involved.
As already suggested the software being used is probably at fault. Maybe it doesn`t recognise double manning.
That is a fault of the office. Do NOT sign to admit you have been at fault, when it is their ■■■■ up.
And to repeat: do not misuse cards and commit fraud to cover their admin mistake!
Sincerely has answered brilliantly and completely right.
Around 75% of our work was multi manning and you never drive with someone else’s card in.
As a side note if you are both present at the start of shift and show 10/15 min other work for vehicle checks, should the driver taking over conduct a check when you swap cards?
njl:
As a side note if you are both present at the start of shift and show 10/15 min other work for vehicle checks, should the driver taking over conduct a check when you swap cards?
No need.
“Daily walkaround check
A driver or designated responsible person must conduct a walkaround check of a vehicle/
trailer prior to using the equipment on the public highway. At least one walkaround check
should be carried out in every 24-hour period that the vehicle/trailer is in service.”
assets.publishing.service.gov.u … hicles.pdf
Once a day is enough.
Personally I quickly check tyres and wheels every time I stop for coffee, (it takes a minute) and glance at dog clip every time I get into cab, but a full check? No need.
Are you waiting for both cards to load up before moving, this could be your problem
justpassing:
Are you waiting for both cards to load up before moving, this could be your problem
Yes this could cause the problem, normally slot 1 is ok but slot 2 can take a few mins to load properly
drover:
justpassing:
Are you waiting for both cards to load up before moving, this could be your problem
Yes this could cause the problem, normally slot 1 is ok but slot 2 can take a few mins to load properly
Cards should be in before 10/15 min walk around surely?
stu675:
drover:
justpassing:
Are you waiting for both cards to load up before moving, this could be your problem
Yes this could cause the problem, normally slot 1 is ok but slot 2 can take a few mins to load properly
Cards should be in before 10/15 min walk around surely?
When they change drivers during the shift, to load on site, they don`t do a walkaround.
Swop seats and cards, and go.
(They are both there at start of shift to do checks, and if on short runs might change seats multiple times a shift)
The only exception to doing a walk around check when double manning would be if the second driver was picked up enroute within the hour window from the first driver start time. The second driver should do a walk around check when he inserts his card in slot 2 or when he inserts his card into slot 1 when taking over the vehicle. You should do a walk around check of every new vehicle you take over.
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I’m so bloody glad I’ve retired and don’t have to learn all this bull**** or employ a secretary.
simcor:
The only exception to doing a walk around check when double manning would be if the second driver was picked up enroute within the hour window from the first driver start time. The second driver should do a walk around check when he inserts his card in slot 2 or when he inserts his card into slot 1 when taking over the vehicle. You should do a walk around check of every new vehicle you take over.
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Where do you get that from?
Franglais:
“Daily walkaround check
A driver or designated responsible person must conduct a walkaround check of a vehicle/
trailer prior to using the equipment on the public highway. At least one walkaround check
should be carried out in every 24-hour period that the vehicle/trailer is in service.”
assets.publishing.service.gov.u … hicles.pdf
One check by responsible person per 24 hrs is enough.
If a vehicle has two or more drivers per day then it may be a good idea, but it isn`t obligatory.
Two drivers starting duty at the same time (or an hour different) affects the available spread-over* available. Nothing else that I know of.
In the OP`s case they are sticking to the same drive/duty regs as if single manned and the vehicle is only being used as if single manned.
*I know…spreadover: length of working day before a daily rest needs to be taken, and length of that rest, under double manning rules.
Using spreadover makes for a shorter sentence with fewer subsections.
**And a long footnote! Dunno what`s clearer?
Franglais:
simcor:
The only exception to doing a walk around check when double manning would be if the second driver was picked up enroute within the hour window from the first driver start time. The second driver should do a walk around check when he inserts his card in slot 2 or when he inserts his card into slot 1 when taking over the vehicle. You should do a walk around check of every new vehicle you take over.
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Where do you get that from?
Franglais:
“Daily walkaround check
A driver or designated responsible person must conduct a walkaround check of a vehicle/
trailer prior to using the equipment on the public highway. At least one walkaround check
should be carried out in every 24-hour period that the vehicle/trailer is in service.”
assets.publishing.service.gov.u … hicles.pdf
One check by responsible person per 24 hrs is enough.
If a vehicle has two or more drivers per day then it may be a good idea, but it isn`t obligatory.
Two drivers starting duty at the same time (or an hour different) affects the available spread-over* available. Nothing else that I know of.
In the OP`s case they are sticking to the same drive/duty regs as if single manned and the vehicle is only being used as if single manned.
*I know…spreadover: length of working day before a daily rest needs to be taken, and length of that rest, under double manning rules.
Using spreadover makes for a shorter sentence with fewer subsections.
**And a long footnote! Dunno what`s clearer?
Would you really trust your licence with someone else doing the walk around checks earlier in the day and going yeah I’m sure it will be fine. At the very least you need to make sure the tyres are legal.
I can guarantee that in that scenario saying oh the walk around check was done by driver 2 won’t wash. You are the person driving the vehicle at that time, you are responsible for its roadworthiness. You are the person driving it that will get fined/points etc.
There is not a single person I would trust my licence with anywhere, if double manning I would certainly be checking the truck myself in any double manning situation.
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