MPs want halt to smart motorway rollout over safety concerns

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

rob22888:
The thing that really needs sorting is the reliability of the information on the signs. It always seems although the lane closures & speed restrictions are never in place quickly enough when they are needed & then never removed quickly enough after the hazard is cleared. It’s no excuse, but people don’t take the signage seriously because they are so used to it being inaccurate & seeing lane closures and speed restrictions in place for no apparent reason.

As one that used to set signs & signals before retiring, you’re pointing the blame at the wrong people Rob
Signs & signals can only be set once the HE operator knows of a problem, and a location. If no-one calls it in, then they don’t know about it and can’t set anything.
If it’s called in on 999, then it goes to the police force that covers the area where the mobile tower has picked up the call, that in itself can delay things, as if it goes to the wrong police force, it then needs to be transferred to the correct one, then the details are taken, often by a police staff operator that is not “Motorway knowledgeable” and are not up to date with marker-posts and c/way designations. we’ve had reports between junctions A - B, when in fact it was B - A, but because A comes before B then that’s how it was passed, so signals got set on the wrong c/way.
Also drivers are not aware of their location, and will offend give between junctions, now if you think of the distances between some junctions, J32 - J33, M6 is over 13 miles and there is only 4 cctv cameras on that stretch, so you could easily get 50’s set for 13+ miles.
Procedures say 50’s for unconfirmed reports, if confirmed, then reduced speeds or lane closures can be set. Incidents can be confirmed from CCTV or an “Authorised, reliable source”
Signals can only be cleared if authorised by either a HE Traffic Officer at scene, a Police Officer at scene, or if it’s roadworks, then the Foreman over the traffic management crew.
Once the RCC is called up to clear signals, then they must be cleared within 3 minutes (the system can be a bit slow if it’s busy) Initially, they must be set within 2 minutes of receiving the call about an incident.
The quality of signal setting, ie speeds set / cleared / accuracy, is constantly monitored, anyone falling out of the required guidelines is taken aside for retraining.

I will repeat, the biggest problem with setting signals is having the correct information passed. to clear signals it has to come from a police or T/O on scene, that has either dealt with the incident, or has searched for it and found nothing.
A big plus is that “REPORT OF …” can now be set if uncinfirmed.

42

The Real Biffo,
a very interesting post, but there are nothing like enough police or traffic officers for this confirmation to be fast enough.

Now just imagine for a moment if there were thousands of experienced drivers out there, you know the sort who might have spent half or more of their life on the road and covered millions of miles, you never know they might even have quite a high vantage point from their normal sitting position :bulb:

Now, a lot of these drivers are responsible sensible people who would be only too happy to be given an identification number and would phone in the correct info to the correct phone line if they knew it, ending with a bloody sight quicker reaction times to getting the correct road signage out would be.

You would have thought with all the brains, well, all the people, employed by the state that someone would have come up with a system to ‘vet’ those interested in helping out in such a way, and within a short time you’d have small army of trusted people, all very experienced in what happens on the road every day, i’m surprised no one has come up with it before, it would help everyone.

43

Juddian:
By the way has anyone noticed how in a 4 lane section how often there will be three lanes of lorries elephant racing, not only holding the coaches up for mile after mile, but forcing all the cars and vans to squeeze by in the outside lane.

Had several displays of professionals :unamused: honing their own elephant rolling roadblock skills in lane 3 today on the M1, i’ll give it 12/18 months and we’ll be banned from anything but the two inside lanes.

Yeh, I’ve noticed that coming down the M1 for the first time in years a couple of weeks ago…

I’m currently boycotting the M1, and using the M40 when I can (nice and clear at night!), this ■■■■■■ me off so much… :imp:

I’m fed up with clicking back to let these idiots get past me, and then trundling on at 54 to make sure I don’t catch them up again. :angry:

44

Juddan, you wouldn’t believe the things that some drivers come up with.
I’ve had a disabled driver that had broken down, thankfully not in a live lane, he wouldn’t get out of the car to look for a marker-post, (he could but wouldn’t) he didn’t even know which motorway he was on. He was travelling from Manchester to Wales, didn’t know if he’d gone over any big bridges ( Thelwall viaduct or Barton bridge) or which route he’d taken, he’d just followed his satnav, what I did get out of him was that there was only 2 live lanes next to him, and that he’d been on the road for a certain length of time. the recovery service was looking for him around the Manchester end of the M56, we’d made our traffic officers aware of him and his car, should they see him. It was ■■■■ before the end of my shift, at home I put his start location into Google maps, and his destination, it then gave me his possible route, from that a spark lit up in my brain and I deduced that he must be on the slip-road from the M6 south to the M56 west, I called back into the RCC, a T/O was deployed, and yes that’s where they found him, contacting his recovery to get him sorted.
Another one was in the early hours of the morning, a distraught lady had called 999 that she had broken down, the police passed it to me, again not in a live lane, but she had her disabled daughter in the car that she was rushing to Hope hospital in Manchester, she didn’t know where she was or which motorway she was on, she wouldn’t get out of the car to look for a marker-post as it would mean leaving her daughter who would become traumatised. I asked her where she’d started out from (Cheshire) and how long she’d been travelling, from this I deduced that she was probably on the M602. She could see a blank signal gantry just in front of her, so I lit the whole eastbound side of the M602 up with 60’s, she saw those come up on the gantry, then i cleared them one gantry at a time until she told me that the one in front of her had cleared, now I knew just where she was, clearing all the other signals, I sent a T/O to her who then arranged recovery etc.
These are just two such incidents where drivers have had no idea where they are, there were numerous others. In fact I believe that unless it’s your normal daily route, and you know it intimately, then most drivers would not be able to tie down their location without some sort of guidance. Just try it the next time you’re on a long journey on the motorway, just ask yourself, where am I now? Most people know the junction number they get on the motorway, and the junction number where they get off or change motorways, but part way along, they don’t have a clue.
Now if you’re an experienced driver, seeing a live lane incident made a note of the marker-post (the large ones are every ½ km, the small ones every 0.1 km) and called it in similar to “Broken down white car at approx 320/2 on the Northbound M6 in lane 1” instead of between J25 & J26. signals would then be set just in front of that location and not the full length between the junctions, also it gives a better location to search on CCTV. Calling from one of the roadside emergency phones puts you directly in touch with a HE operator who can set signals immediately.
I’ve also had “discussions” with operators in other types of control rooms, a T/O came across an RTC on the A627(M) between the M62 and Rochdale, we needed another emergency service to attend (note how I’ve not mentioned which!) I called their control room and gave the location as the A627(M) northbound between J3 and J4, I was asked for the name of the road, I said “The A627(M), it’s a motorway” their operator got a bit shirty, saying “It’s an A road, it must have a name” “No love, it’s a motorway, it’s the A627(M)” she wouldn’t have it, so I asked to be put through to a supervisor, finally getting things sorted out. This shows that operators in various control rooms might not be “Motorway knowledgeable” so calling 999 instead of using the emergency phones in some cases can lead to problems.

45

Juddian:
Had several displays of professionals :unamused: honing their own elephant rolling roadblock skills in lane 3 today on the M1, i’ll give it 12/18 months and we’ll be banned from anything but the two inside lanes.

Hopefully, but don’t hold your breath.

46

xichrisxi:
Duel carriageways have no hard shoulder,should we make all of those into one lane carriageways using the other as a hard shoulder?!
Load of tripe,people just don’t like change.

Duel carriageways. Sad but true.

47

dexxyy:

Juddian:
Had several displays of professionals :unamused: honing their own elephant rolling roadblock skills in lane 3 today on the M1, i’ll give it 12/18 months and we’ll be banned from anything but the two inside lanes.

Hopefully, but don’t hold your breath.

If Brexit gets turned over, we’ll be banned from driving on roads in 18 months time. :frowning:

Khaan has already banned us from central London, after all…
The permissions you need to get now cost what? - Just how much is a “Gold” FORS sticker these days?