Solution that will make people not drive in a closed lane. Make the fine for getting caught EXTREMELY heavy, seeing as people’s lives are at risk for disobeying it. Everyone will of course say oh it’s just motorists being an easy target and it’s money for the highways Xmas party blah blah blah, but hit people in the only place they understand and I’m sure they will start obeying a red X, making it safer for recovery of a broken down vehicle.
People just don’t like change,it’s called progression without it we’d all still be watching black & White TVs wondering whether it’s Rhyl or Blackpool for our holidays next year.
Exactly. Is the problem they are actually unsafe with some evidence to show there was a serious collision before the lane closure went up? Or it the problem people are against change. Because logic would show that for all the time there isn’t a break down then 4 lanes is better than 3. But if the problem is safety due to people disobeying a red X, then make the fine for disobeying them monumentally huge with points on the licence as well. This is unfortunately the only language people understand. But seeing lives are at risk when the red X Is disobeyed it would be justified in my opinion.
4 times so far in the west mids section of live lane running i’ve come across stationary vehicles in the live inside lane, no warnings, no magical red X force fields protecting the innocent.
Fortunately each of these instances was in daylight, and oddly enough the section had overhead lights so even in the dark it would have been better than the hundreds of miles of unlit motorway already open or planned for smart conversion.
At 50mph even in daylight it’s surprising how quickly you come up on an unexpected stationary vehicle, all were cars.
In total darkness, raining, filthy roads like now, are you progressives so certain that if it was you suddenly broken down with a car full of Mrs and kids in the dark and solid armco alongside so no chance of escape, that you’d be quite so blase about this?
xichrisxi:
People just don’t like change,it’s called progression without it we’d all still be watching black & White TVs wondering whether it’s Rhyl or Blackpool for our holidays next year.
That’s why people are trying to stop brexit. Don’t want change life is good as it is why change things.
Could be worse or could be better. Either way change is good
edd1974:
xichrisxi:
People just don’t like change,it’s called progression without it we’d all still be watching black & White TVs wondering whether it’s Rhyl or Blackpool for our holidays next year.That’s why people are trying to stop brexit. Don’t want change life is good as it is why change things.
Could be worse or could be better. Either way change is good
There’s an old saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Juddian:
edd1974:
xichrisxi:
People just don’t like change,it’s called progression without it we’d all still be watching black & White TVs wondering whether it’s Rhyl or Blackpool for our holidays next year.That’s why people are trying to stop brexit. Don’t want change life is good as it is why change things.
Could be worse or could be better. Either way change is goodThere’s an old saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Does hours of congestion everyday count as broke?
xichrisxi:
Juddian:
edd1974:
xichrisxi:
People just don’t like change,it’s called progression without it we’d all still be watching black & White TVs wondering whether it’s Rhyl or Blackpool for our holidays next year.That’s why people are trying to stop brexit. Don’t want change life is good as it is why change things.
Could be worse or could be better. Either way change is goodThere’s an old saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Does hours of congestion everyday count as broke?
Of course, i was relating to losing the hard shoulder, it suddenly appears to be safe space to stop if its a live running lane instead, fear not dear motorist one of our diversified droids will immediately press the Red X force field icon the second your car misses a beat and you and your family are automatically protected from whatever 20/44 ton block of steel is presently aiming straight for you by the force.
The roads weren’t blocked until our omnipotent leaders decided that we needed around 6 (i wonder just how many in truth) million more souls on this already overcrowded island, and this 4 lane live running ■■■■■■■■ is just a sticking plaster.
Because by the time the whole motorway network is smart updated, those 6 millions will be knocking on 10 and still rising and we’ll need hundreds of miles of new roads for all the gridlocked traffic to park on.
Lack of planning as usual by the standard default industrial scale idiots we manage to elect time and again 
, yes the motorways need widening, but they should have been 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder running continuously wherever possible, OK widening bridges would have cost far too much, but the hard shoulder could be missing only where you pass the bridge, this is the case in many sections of our network anyway where the layout won’t support a hard shoulder, but instead of there being a refuge large enough for one artic every mile or so it would be the other way round, a bridge length section of hard shoulder missing at some (not all) bridges.
Juddian:
4 times so far in the west mids section of live lane running i’ve come across stationary vehicles in the live inside lane, no warnings, no magical red X force fields protecting the innocent.
Fortunately each of these instances was in daylight, and oddly enough the section had overhead lights so even in the dark it would have been better than the hundreds of miles of unlit motorway already open or planned for smart conversion.At 50mph even in daylight it’s surprising how quickly you come up on an unexpected stationary vehicle, all were cars.
In total darkness, raining, filthy roads like now, are you progressives so certain that if it was you suddenly broken down with a car full of Mrs and kids in the dark and solid armco alongside so no chance of escape, that you’d be quite so blase about this?
Make you right.
A vehicle could have a power failure for some reason meaning no lights/hazards etc giving following traffic no chance (or the breakdown)
Elderly people or those with children who could take some time to exit to safety.
God knows what the cost is of these changes & the years of disruption and I wonder how this stakes up against new roads or widening ?
Dodgy Permit:
Juddian:
4 times so far in the west mids section of live lane running i’ve come across stationary vehicles in the live inside lane, no warnings, no magical red X force fields protecting the innocent.
Fortunately each of these instances was in daylight, and oddly enough the section had overhead lights so even in the dark it would have been better than the hundreds of miles of unlit motorway already open or planned for smart conversion.At 50mph even in daylight it’s surprising how quickly you come up on an unexpected stationary vehicle, all were cars.
In total darkness, raining, filthy roads like now, are you progressives so certain that if it was you suddenly broken down with a car full of Mrs and kids in the dark and solid armco alongside so no chance of escape, that you’d be quite so blase about this?
Make you right.
A vehicle could have a power failure for some reason meaning no lights/hazards etc giving following traffic no chance (or the breakdown)
Elderly people or those with children who could take some time to exit to safety.God knows what the cost is of these changes & the years of disruption and I wonder how this stakes up against new roads or widening ?
A plane could have a power failure and drop from the skies killing hundreds on board and more on the ground,doesn’t stop thousands taking of everyday…
Still yet to see a convincing argument as to why 4 lane running is a bad idea.
By the way has anyone noticed how in a 4 lane section how often there will be three lanes of lorries elephant racing, not only holding the coaches up for mile after mile, but forcing all the cars and vans to squeeze by in the outside lane.
Had several displays of professionals honing their own elephant rolling roadblock skills in lane 3 today on the M1, i’ll give it 12/18 months and we’ll be banned from anything but the two inside lanes.
Juddian:
By the way has anyone noticed how in a 4 lane section how often there will be three lanes of lorries elephant racing, not only holding the coaches up for mile after mile, but forcing all the cars and vans to squeeze by in the outside lane.Had several displays of professionals
Yep. I’ve wondered about that before.
Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
Am I the only cynic who thinks that these massive civil engineering companies make millions from lucrative government contracts because the hard shoulder is deemed safe? And in less than a decade it’s status becomes unsafe so we’ll shell out more cash from the public ■■■■■ to change it back.
These same massive civil companies are more than likely donors to political parties or their CEOs play golf with influential movers and shakers.
sent using smoke signals
xichrisxi:
Dodgy Permit:
Make you right.
A vehicle could have a power failure for some reason meaning no lights/hazards etc giving following traffic no chance (or the breakdown)
Elderly people or those with children who could take some time to exit to safety.God knows what the cost is of these changes & the years of disruption and I wonder how this stakes up against new roads or widening ?
A plane could have a power failure and drop from the skies killing hundreds on board and more on the ground,doesn’t stop thousands taking of everyday…
Still yet to see a convincing argument as to why 4 lane running is a bad idea.
For the simple fact that it a much more likely scenario (unlike your plane one ?)
IMO of course. 
When building smart motorways in my eyes would.been quicker and probably easier in my eyes to just make another hard shoulder
ie convert the current one into a live lane then add another one instead off adding emergency laybe byes
Then you’d have 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder every one wins.
Can have 4 lane running permenat then instead of only at certain times
This article seems to have gathered what a number of us drivers actually think…
“Useless concept Refuge Area”. 
edd1974:
When building smart motorways in my eyes would.been quicker and probably easier in my eyes to just make another hard shoulder
ie convert the current one into a live lane then add another one instead off adding emergency laybe byesThen you’d have 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder every one wins.
Can have 4 lane running permenat then instead of only at certain times
Because demolishing and rebuilding every bridge and widening embankments is so much quicker and easier than reinforcing a strip of tarmac and upgrading a bit of drainage and signalling…
I think the M1 is a much improved motorway to drive on since most of it went all lane running, always a reliable journey through the new stretches so based on that I don’t think smart motorways a bad idea. The M6 will be miles better J16-J19 when it’s all open. We should convert all the existing stretches to all lane running, the system of opening & closing the hard shoulder is too much for the average motorist to comprehend.
It’s the only financially viable way to increase the capacity on the roads. If people don’t want smart motorways they either have to accept bad traffic and the economic consequences of that or leave the car at home and travel by other means.
The thing that really needs sorting is the reliability of the information on the signs. It always seems although the lane closures & speed restrictions are never in place quickly enough when they are needed & then never removed quickly enough after the hazard is cleared. It’s no excuse, but people don’t take the signage seriously because they are so used to it being inaccurate & seeing lane closures and speed restrictions in place for no apparent reason.
rob22888:
I think the M1 is a much improved motorway to drive on since most of it went all lane running, always a reliable journey through the new stretches so based on that I don’t think smart motorways a bad idea. The M6 will be miles better J16-J19 when it’s all open. We should convert all the existing stretches to all lane running, the system of opening & closing the hard shoulder is too much for the average motorist to comprehend.< For sure many are now better as we have another lane & yes “some” will simply ignore the red cross but will no doubt change their mind when the fines arrive.>
It’s the only financially viable way to increase the capacity on the roads. If people don’t want smart motorways they either have to accept bad traffic and the economic consequences of that or leave the car at home and travel by other means.
<From what I have seen (?) it can take years to convert a motorway to smart which includes the need to replace many bridges, so why not simply add another lane in the process.>
The thing that really needs sorting is the reliability of the information on the signs. It always seems although the lane closures & speed restrictions are never in place quickly enough when they are needed & then never removed quickly enough after the hazard is cleared. It’s no excuse, but people don’t take the signage seriously because they are so used to it being inaccurate & seeing lane closures and speed restrictions in place for no apparent reason.
Yes the sign info is often not what the public see (a real issue) and this area must be improved.
I notice that you do not address the safety issue though which is the thrust of this thread.
edd1974:
When building smart motorways in my eyes would.been quicker and probably easier in my eyes to just make another hard shoulder
ie convert the current one into a live lane then add another one instead off adding emergency laybe byesThen you’d have 4 lanes plus a hard shoulder every one wins.
Can have 4 lane running permenat then instead of only at certain times
Then next year add another one as the traffic has increased, then another one…when do we stop?
The only solution is to restrict the number of vehicles on our inadequate roads.
We need something like goods trains. There’s a fortune waiting for whoever invents them!
Oh, hang on, didn’t we have them once?