At last they have finally agreed as to what we have all been saying on here for years. 
The rollout of smart motorways, where the hard shoulder has been permanently converted into a fourth lane, should be stopped, a group of MPs says.
The all-party group backed campaigners say having no hard shoulder puts motorists and recovery workers at risk.
Full article here on BBC News
As per usual Highways England come out and say ALR smart motorways are safe.
As a side issue i would like to see the figures for accidents and fatalities which have taken place during the slow building of these so called ‘Smart Motorways’.
They have been doing the M6 between Junctions 19 and 16 for the last three years, it only took 3 years to build the M62 from scratch between junctions 1 and 12 in the 1970’s
Wot? you mean having no possible escape place on a 4 live lane motorway with continuous armco to the left, and in total darkness, isn’t the wisest of designs?
Juddian:
Wot? you mean having no possible escape place on a 4 live lane motorway with continuous armco to the left, and in total darkness, isn’t the wisest of designs?
The computer stimulation says it’s safe… Case closed
What do people who use the motorways know.
Duel carriageways have no hard shoulder,should we make all of those into one lane carriageways using the other as a hard shoulder?!
Load of tripe,people just don’t like change.
Dual carriageways generally have some sort of grass verge alongside, and anyone with an ounce of sense in a car or light vehicle is going to use the last momentum of a breakdown to get the vehicle off or even partly off the road.
Breaking down with a lorry is a bit different, no you can’t take to the verge but not only is it a hell of a lot more visible, the stranded lorry hit up the arse by half asleep artic driver isn’t the almost certain death sentence it is for car or smaller vehicle drivers/passengers.
Drivers also have driven duals for many years and come to expect it not to be a cruise controlled semi comatose journey, what with laybys and junctions to contend with along the way, let alone the odd tractor JCB or bicycle or even footpaths crossing or the odd horse and trap trotting along.
Motorways are nothing like, on a motorway one is lulled into a sense of a never ending road where obstructions or slow moving or turning vehicles are not the case, even at junctions all but the heaviest lorries should be doing at least 40 mph by the time they reach the end of a standard acceleraton lane.
Juddian:
Motorways are nothing like, on a motorway one is lulled into a sense of a never ending road where obstructions or slow moving or turning vehicles are not the case, even at junctions all but the heaviest lorries should be doing at least 40 mph by the time they reach the end of a standard acceleraton lane.
As a daily M25 driver I call bull on that. 
adam277:
Juddian:
Motorways are nothing like, on a motorway one is lulled into a sense of a never ending road where obstructions or slow moving or turning vehicles are not the case, even at junctions all but the heaviest lorries should be doing at least 40 mph by the time they reach the end of a standard acceleraton lane.
As a daily M25 driver I call bull on that.
Yeah i wasn’t including the road to hell where no bugger has a clue, but it does have a hard shoulder as well as 4 lanes in many sections.
I’ve never liked using the hard shoulder as a live lane, and have taken to the habit of rarely moving over to the left when the hard shoulder drops, and becomes a live lane one…
Is this roll-out too far gone by this point to stop though? 
Sorry, I didn’t see someone had already started a thread the same as my post above…
Mods - you can merge the two perhaps?
Dual Carriageways may have pushbikes tractors and horses on them, they normally have plenty of lay by and verges.
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I’ve been hearing murmurings lately about Kier, the contractor converting the stretch of the M6 between J16-19 (formerly in a JV with Carillion), hurdling towards BIG financial turmoil.
Garbo2018:
I’ve been hearing murmurings lately about Kier, the contractor converting the stretch of the M6 between J16-19 (formerly in a JV with Carillion), hurdling towards BIG financial turmoil.
There in debt same as carillion take on contracts by undercutting competition then wonder why cant pay there bills. But most there work is for government ie highways School maintenance etc. . So now there hoping government will bail.them.out .
Anyway m 6 16 -19 I’m up down there almost every day supposed me opening march. And.theve more or less finished it all.now most sections have all 4 lanes done . Still coned off though
the best and quickest solution is for all of us to refuse to use the hard shoulder except for what it was designed for in the first place.
When you come down the M1 southbound, there are a few places where you’d normally be expected to move over onto the live hard shoulder - only to have it abruptly end about a mile down the road!
One wonders if there are any upsides to having hard shoulders act as part-time lane ones at ALL - other than saving local councils some money, so they don’t get busted out of office for endless cuts otherwise…
It’s a conspiracy I say!
edd1974:
Garbo2018:
I’ve been hearing murmurings lately about Kier, the contractor converting the stretch of the M6 between J16-19 (formerly in a JV with Carillion), hurdling towards BIG financial turmoil.
There in debt same as carillion take on contracts by undercutting competition then wonder why cant pay there bills. But most there work is for government ie highways School maintenance etc. . So now there hoping government will bail.them.out .
Anyway m 6 16 -19 I’m up down there almost every day supposed me opening march. And.theve more or less finished it all.now most sections have all 4 lanes done . Still coned off though
So there’s now the risk of Kier becoming Carillion MK2?
Anyway, back on topic.
Are they that unsafe? Is there any evidence of a serious crash or a death where someone has stopped in the live lane and someone has ploughed into them BEFORE the red X was put up? Key thing being before the red X was put up. I know there was a serious crash on the M1 a few months ago but the driver who went into the back of the other one had stayed in a closed lane. Crashes will always happen everywhere on every type of road where drivers can’t obey a simple traffic sign.
I’m just asking the question, is there any evidence to show they so unsafe compared to anywhere else?
For years we were always told if you break down, use the hard shoulder , get out of the vehicle and get up the bank as it’s a very dangerous place to be .
As an ex recovery driver I can testify that it certainly is a terrifying place to be .
Then suddenly to justify the change in government policy it’s now deemed safe .
We have these magic red X safety force sheilds to protect us !
The problem is with gantry signs most of them are ignored for many reasons, mainly because motorists have found them to be largely inaccurate.
Miles of speed restrictions for no apparent reason , phantom warnings of obstructions etc etc .
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Garbo2018:
edd1974:
Garbo2018:
I’ve been hearing murmurings lately about Kier, the contractor converting the stretch of the M6 between J16-19 (formerly in a JV with Carillion), hurdling towards BIG financial turmoil.
There in debt same as carillion take on contracts by undercutting competition then wonder why cant pay there bills. But most there work is for government ie highways School maintenance etc. . So now there hoping government will bail.them.out .
Anyway m 6 16 -19 I’m up down there almost every day supposed me opening march. And.theve more or less finished it all.now most sections have all 4 lanes done . Still coned off though
So there’s now the risk of Kier becoming Carillion MK2?
Anyway, back on topic.
Yep.
It’s kind of.slipped under the radar along with other bad news. Its kind of brused aside . And all brexit brexit brexit . All other news etc is just ignored lately.
But yes kier are in trouble
grumpyken52:
For years we were always told if you break down, use the hard shoulder , get out of the vehicle and get up the bank as it’s a very dangerous place to be .
As an ex recovery driver I can testify that it certainly is a terrifying place to be .
Then suddenly to justify the change in government policy it’s now deemed safe .
We have these magic red X safety force sheilds to protect us !
The problem is with gantry signs most of them are ignored for many reasons, mainly because motorists have found them to be largely inaccurate.
Miles of speed restrictions for no apparent reason , phantom warnings of obstructions etc etc .
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The age old problem that because someone can’t see a reason for it themselves they choose not to obey it.