Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.
One of the criteria to be allowed to stay in Britain after Brexit will be a decent standard of English, both spoken and written. There will be plenty of work.
Thank you please.
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.
And that blow will be cushioned by economic tourists like yourself, so forgive me if I don’t share your pessimism.
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.
Really?, so the overpopulation is going back to living in caves are they, growing simple veg outside and killing anything on 4 legs to cook over an open peat fire?
Well at least the Greens will be happy, or will they?
Operation fear/threat/blackmail didn’t work, get over it.
We’re not all working all hours God sends for poor pay without hardly a proper overtime rate in sight, and those of with a bit of nous won’t be again come the Brexit (that won’t happen as it should), those who put a bit of effort in can always find their way to better things, you might need a bit of luck but you can make your own luck to a certain extent by doing the job right and being totally dependable.
Eagerbeaver’s post above spelled it out for clear as daylight for anyone.
the nodding donkey:
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.One of the criteria to be allowed to stay in Britain after Brexit will be a decent standard of English, both spoken and written. There will be plenty of work.
Thank you please.
And one of standart for transport office staff and drivers must who all must speak English correct.But IN England to many British people (who born here) speak absolutely not correct.Plenty drivers can t write statement or notice or simply text message.
Migrant must learn language but plenty British as well.
Juddian:
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.Really?, so the overpopulation is going back to living in caves are they, growing simple veg outside and killing anything on 4 legs to cook over an open peat fire?
Well at least the Greens will be happy, or will they?
Operation fear/threat/blackmail didn’t work, get over it.We’re not all working all hours God sends for poor pay without hardly a proper overtime rate in sight, and those of with a bit of nous won’t be again come the Brexit (that won’t happen as it should), those who put a bit of effort in can always find their way to better things, you might need a bit of luck but you can make your own luck to a certain extent by doing the job right and being totally dependable.
Eagerbeaver’s post above spelled it out for clear as daylight for anyone.
I don t want dispute but you wiil see next years what will be.If people want out -no problem,it is you right to vote but business,production ,conctruction will slow down.
I don’t want to dispute stuff either but as a time travelling pervert I can confirm that apart from the sticky 2018 missile crisis when Putin and Trump have a slight fallout the futures not to bad post Brexit, historians look back and confirm it was the best choice.
Truckers wages don’t change much but we get longer trucks.
Dipper_Dave:
I don’t want to dispute stuff either but as a time travelling pervert I can confirm that apart from the sticky 2018 missile crisis when Putin and Trump have a slight fallout the futures not to bad post Brexit, historians look back and confirm it was the best choice.Truckers wages don’t change much but we get longer trucks.
Longer is not always better. Or so I’ve been told.
OVLOV JAY:
Andrejs:
Don t worry next years will be to many drivers without job or get less hours.Due this BREXIT company reduce investment ,people will taked less credit ,less buy,less use services.So all this mean who will be less load,less movement .And may be some transport companies go to administration due this Brexit.And that blow will be cushioned by economic tourists like yourself, so forgive me if I don’t share your pessimism.
IF a driver is going to get near minimum wage from their prospective new job - it would be better they also got the barest minimum of hours, thus getting the maximum in top-ups. THIS would be around 30 hours per week then.
What you DON’T want is NMW compounded by a 60 hour week, thus earning “just enough” to be disqualified from most benefits. It’s the combination of low hourly rates combined with hours well in excess of WTD levels - that causes the often ignored COMPOUNDED loss of “Middle Earnings” for “Maxed out Hours” overall.
This simple con is even catching out hard-working immigrants who don’t realize that it’s not actually right and proper to be given a working week “over 48 hours” as “standard”. 48 hours is supposed to be a WTD Maximum and represents time at work minus breaks. It’s bad enough it’s “Minus Breaks”, but all too often the 48 hour maximum gets watered down into a “guideline average goal” for the firm - meaning they can then try and have you work over 48 hours EVERY week, and try and claim your rest days and holidays as “Given back hours” time. Not good! 
eagerbeaver:
That 18 tonner might be available next Saturday for you to help the wifes parents move.
That’s a bit bloody rude mate! 
fuse:
GOV IS SPOT ON FOR A CHANGE . I have said for years there is plenty of drivers trouble is lots will not take the crap that comes with it ie driver cpc ,cameras in cab, long hours not to mention the awkward start and finish times.Not enough places to stop for real rest,sleep shower ect .when I started we had log books I think the spread over was 14 hours I may be wrong at 15 spread we have not come far ,nit picking with hours if a mistake has been made ,i could go on but me I like it but as I say a lot of good people out there do not.
log books ceased 1979 when the first frisbees 
came in. 
upto 1984 t’was a 12 and a half hour spread. Then you could do a sixteen hour day up until 
2007, with four hours off in that day aka 1 hour 2 hour 2 hour and eight hours off! They then simplified that to 15 hours spread, with 3 hours UNINTERRUPTED rest to have 9 off! whoppeeeeee do! VOSA/ DVSA/ ministry or whatever guise/ uniformed Stasi want to call themselves this week < insert your own superlative here > the jobs ■■■■■■ pure and simple. The governmint is wrong and it’ll bite them in their arse soon.
There’s no driver SHORTAGE, just a shortage of good drivers REFUSING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS. 
pure and simple its Jodrell Bank.
Coolrider:
For once the MPs are spot on. There is and never has been a driver shortage.
I can think of at least 20 people I know off who have a class 1 with a number of years experience but swear they will never step foot inside a truck again!Why? Well that’s an easy one to answer. Look at everything that stands in a drivers way these days and the consequences should an accident happen,
Vosa
Police
Traffic
Speed cameras
The way drivers get treated by customers at RDCs etc
Amount of time spent waiting around
The way they get treated by their very own employers, in some cases
Having to sleep in some lay-bys 4 or 5 nights a week away from your wife and kids just to make a few quid to look after them on the odd occasions you get to see them.
Cpc training every 5 years
Cycling awareness courses
Trackers every where you goThe list goes on and on.
I’m also in no doubt that there will be more thrown at us drivers over the coming months and years.
Already drivers are having in cab cameras looking at them 24/7 and I can tell you that this will become the norm and by no means the exception!!
All for what 4 - 5 hundred quid a week if your lucky!No there is no driver shortage at all. There might be a good driver shortage but no shortage of people holding the licences.
well put
OVLOV JAY:
Let me try and make it simple, seeing as you can’t understand the point.
Well I’m doing my best to try!
Back in the 90’s, most firms only had a handful of agency staff in the warehouse, except at peak times. In my area we had Tesco, Sainsburys, Safeway, Iceland, Comet, Dixons, Brakes, Nft, Cert, RHM and loads of smaller warehouses, run by a combination of Exel, Tibbetts, Wincanton and in house operations. All within a 10 mile radius, and all running minimum agency warehouse staff.
Let’s say ABC Warehousing want a couple of agency bods. They ring Straight arrow staffing. Straight arrow quote abc £7 an hour. They advertise their rates to their staff at rates of £4 an hour. No takers, that’s market forces. Eventually they get blokes in at £4.75 an hour.
A few weeks later and Banana recruiting go in and say they’ll cut ABC down to £5 an hour. They advertise at £3.50 an hour and can’t get a bod. Straight Arrow hold out as they know they will get the work back.
Fast forward to NMW times, and EVERY agency goes in at £4.50 an hour. Advertising at NMW, and setting up in droves. Forcing the likes of Straight arrow to either adapt or go extinct.
I understand the words you’re using. I don’t deny the truth of each statement highlighted in red. What I don’t understand is how these things are caused by the NMW (or its prior absence).
-
Why would agencies suddenly “set up in droves”, if the NMW is lower than the old going rate?
-
Why would they get takers at £3.50, when before they couldn’t get takers at less than £4.75?
-
Why would Silver Arrow be “forced to adapt”, when before they were just able to “hold out” (and by continuing to offer £4.75, they’d have their pick of workers compared to those offering NMW)?
And this is the reason most warehouses are now running at least 50/50 ratio of full time vs temp. When was the last time you saw an agency job that wasn’t advertised as “meets NMW”? I remember when you signed up with an agency, and different jobs paid different rates.
Because if you draw a line of steady deterioration of pay and conditions from the 1970s, you remember a time which was closer in time following the zenith of working class strength and solidarity, when bosses couldn’t drop wages overnight because there’d have been ructions.
By the late 90s, the best you seem to have mustered is to leave as an individual, then go straight into another job at the same lowered rate (nice plan brainbox!), and then gave up and accepted the situation (as will have almost everybody else in your situation).
As I say, your assertion that minimum wages per se cause a drop in wages, is just absurd. All occupations are covered by the NMW, and others (except yours) saw no fall at all - it’s just a coincidence in your case that the NMW triggered employers in your sector to reassess what the market rate for your work actually was, and force your above-market rates down in lockstep with each other (which foiled your plan to just change jobs as an individual, because the employers all dropped their rates in unison, whereas before your individual strategy of changing jobs and creating costly churn which employers at that time weren’t set up to handle, maintained the wage ratchet against any individual employer trying to force local rates down to a lower level).
What you’re observing is just the same as when an employer is seen to smash a union. Actual pay rates don’t fall overnight just because a union is gone, but the underlying rate at which workers can be had is now lower, and all that an employer then has to do is relentlessly attack the contracts, force out old staff, and take new starters at a lower rate, and gradually get the actual rate down to the new lower rate which is enabled by the loss of worker solidarity. In your case, the bosses didn’t smash a union, the willingness of the workforce to stand together and fight pay cuts just silently withered. When your bosses did risk launching an attack because of the payroll pressure created by NMW, they encountered no resistance, and discovered the lack of solidarity.
What don’t you understand? Before the NMW they pushed wages down as far as they could. Individual jobs paid different rates. There were only two agencies in Hoddesdon at the time. Then up pops the NMW. A further 5 agencies popped up, all chasing the work. The government had set the price, they put 50p or so on top and hoovered up. What could the existing agencies do? One closed its doors and the other, over time, ended up buying 3 of the other 5. I found a permanent job, on a fiver an hour as a van boy, but many people who needed work, took their £40-£50 a week pay cuts and carried on. Now every third shopfront (after charity shop and coffee shop) is an agency. All paying NMW across the board. I’m adamant that if left alone, wages would have risen much more if it wasn’t for the NMW. It gives employers the excuse to hide behind the notion that the government say that wage is fine. It’s chicken and egg. If they raise the rates for staff, they won’t get the work. At the end of the day, temporary staff on zero hour contracts will always work, even for NMW as they can’t guarantee where the next job is coming from
OVLOV JAY:
What don’t you understand? Before the NMW they pushed wages down as far as they could.
No, they obviously didn’t!
As I say, there was a weakness in your individualist strategy, which was that if the employers acted in concert to force down wages, they would succeed without creating undue churn. Before the NMW, they simply hadn’t tried to force wages down in unison - and then they did try and succeeded.
Managers in the 1990s did not widely assume the workforce had only this individualist strategy, because in the 1980s collective industrial action (even in unskilled work) was the normal response of the workforce to a sudden pay cut, not individuals just resigning to seek work from another employer.
many people who needed work, took their £40-£50 a week pay cuts and carried on.
See!
I’m adamant that if left alone, wages would have risen much more if it wasn’t for the NMW. It gives employers the excuse to hide behind the notion that the government say that wage is fine. It’s chicken and egg. If they raise the rates for staff, they won’t get the work. At the end of the day, temporary staff on zero hour contracts will always work, even for NMW as they can’t guarantee where the next job is coming from
I know you’re adamant, but you’re fundamentally misattributing the cause. The only reason the employers didn’t attack your wages sooner, is they had no signal to coordinate the attack amongst themselves (which the NMW provided).
Dipper_Dave:
I don’t want to dispute stuff either but as a time travelling pervert I can confirm that apart from the sticky 2018 missile crisis when Putin and Trump have a slight fallout the futures not to bad post Brexit, historians look back and confirm it was the best choice.Truckers wages don’t change much but we get longer trucks.
I would love to see the american truck+trailer I drove in the States on a British road, more specifically on roundabout in industrial area, that will be fun 
Dolph:
Dipper_Dave:
Truckers wages don’t change much but we get longer trucks.I would love to see the american truck+trailer I drove in the States on a British road, more specifically on roundabout in industrial area, that will be fun
youtube.com/watch?v=0xDhKuT1JII 2.47-3.07
Ironically allowing LHV’s and use of red diesel would be a lot more likely to create an environment in which train driver type wages could be applied to road transport.In certainly providing fairer and more efficient access to container work for one example.Than continuing with the status quo of bridges being taken out by silly vehicle heights and the risks of equally silly amounts of over hangs on pointlessly longer artic trailers and continuing the situation of even more silly fuel taxation.
Drivers pay needs to be graded, based on experience and demand for the job. Hgv driving is the only industry I am aware of where a new starter can earn the same (in some cases more) as a driver with 40 years under his belt.
Honestly !
One thing that seems to have been missed by ALL here is the notion that the Transport Industry is actually a political faction in it’s own right. Big time.
Any Sci Fi fan might be aware of a series of books by Frank Herbert called “Dune” which deals with issues like a scare commodity (like Oil today) along with a transport industry that holds entire planets to ransom (by threatening them with isolation).
A transport boycott of any business - would bring it to it’s knees in short order. YET there has never been any political organization of a really effective Transport Pressure Group (NOT the toothless Road Haulage Association) which could bring a lot of pressure upon governments in a similar way that the rail unions did in the past.
Lack of a nationwide trucker’s Union then - is to blame for a lot of the crap that we drivers now find ourselves saddled with in this country.
Anyone here working as a supermarket delivery driver in a puddle jumper van to people’s private homes?
There must be more job vacancies in this line of work right now - than any other “transport” related job in the country!
Too many jobs - not enough willing to fill them @ £7.50ph for working in London FFS.
So they’ll all end up going to the desperate and the unvetted. Whilst we all feel sorry for the desperate - we’ll miss the fact that the next Jihadist bombing campaign might be literally brought to people’s doorsteps by the growing army of jihadists that now find themselves left in charge of a puddle jumper!
LOL The RHA and the FTA and the BAR are only interested in Operators. They are driven by their membership and they view drivers as inconvenient overheads. If they could get driverless trucks on the road tomorrow, they would be turning bloody cartwheels.
Do not expect any of these organisations to have any interest in drivers other than how it affects their member’s businesses. Except maybe for a cursory nod towards road safety, mainly so their chief executives can continue to grab a monthly lunch date in Whitehall.