In this part of the world, they are commencing work next year on a huge rail interchange next to junction twelve of the M6 (South Staffordshire). When completed over the next few years, it will eventually be the size of EIGHTY SIX football pitches, comprised mainly of huge warehousing units and be capable of taking up to twelve freight trains of up to 75 wagons in length. In the bigger scheme of things, not a massive reduction in the number of lorries using the M6, but certainly a much greater concentration of lorries within the vicinity of junction twelve, with resultant major bottlenecks at certain times of day.
All that got me thinking about the viability of electric trucks to move freight from the local areas to these rail interchanges. We all know that range is a huge issue with any electric vehicle and that with commercial vehicles, huge banks of batteries are seriously going to interfere with the load carrying capacity of any vehicle. With artics you also have the problem that the only place to store traction batteries is under the trailers themselves, as there simply not the available space on the tractor unit itself. We all know how trailers are dumped in dark corners of yards, left standing for extended periods of time and generally abused. I somehow see a problem arising?
When you look at the bigger picture, even if you had a plethora of rail interchanges built around the country to handle the longer truck journeys, you would still have huge problems with the ‘just in time’ manufacturing outfits such as car makers, that simply don’t have the warehousing capacity to carry extra stock. Likewise if you have an incident that blocks a motorway, you can generally use other roads to bypass the obstruction, not so easy with train tracks though…
At the moment everything is focused on driver shortages, but future transport moves are going to be way more challenging…
JeffA:
I thought one plan was run trucks attached to overhead power cables like trams.
One of the problems with that, is clearance under the motorway (and other) bridges. Following some trucks on the motorways, it looks like they only clearing those bridges by a matter of inches. You would have to take those existing tall trucks off the road to make overhead power lines viable. Plus you’d be reliant on drivers not doing stupid things with the overhead pantograph assembly, when connecting to those power lines (or climbing up to check or adjust their loads).
JeffA:
And what do you do when a very high outsize truck needs to go down that road? Take em all down and put em back up?
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If it’s an abnormal load over 16’6" high taking overhead cables down and putting them back up again is something that is already done if required.
Would the truck driver have to connect their own truck to the electric cable? I can just see electrocuted drivers laid all over the road.
Electric trams powered by overhead cables have been around longer than petrol/diesel powered lorries have. I’m guessing you’ve never been to Sheffield? The tram drivers there don’t seem to have an issue. Are you saying that lorry drivers couldn’t manage to do it when they can? It’ll be no more complicated than pressing a button just like you can with a lift axle. They also run trams the height of single decker buses with overhead cables and they cross the roads and overhead cables seem to be a non-issue there. Google Map streetview of Sheffield ring road where trams cross over. I’ve taken a 16’3" double decker round there.
Franglais:
18 foot off the ground? Only on main routes remember. The trucks still have batteries.
No need for wires in yards, under bridges, etc.
And how stable is the connector going to be at that height? Sitting roughly 2 metres above the cab
It worked with Trolley Buses in Hull, Derby and most other towns in the UK. The vehicle operators had a long pole where they would connect their trolley bus to the overhead cables, maybe that is why they called them Conductors.
The ‘future’ of the road transport industry is that it has no future they intend to send it back to where it was in the 1920’s/30’s.
Doubt if it would need anything more than a fleet of battery powered 7.5/18 tonners for final delivery and day cabbed units shunting trailers and containers between warehouse hubs/RDC’s, with payloads reduced accordingly.
Don’t need high payloads to just run short distances.
Drivers will spend more time working as warehouse labour than driving anywhere.
We’re already being conditioned to accept lower shop shelf stock expectations as part of this brave new nightmare.
If there is a shortage of new entrants to the industry I commend them for their foresight.
Train driver seems to be the more sensible career choice.
We do not have the technology for electric trucks that are practical.
I’ll give you the money myself of you ever see an electric truck run the length of the country. As for overhead power lines. Err… we had those years ago on trolley buses…
All this electric vehicle stuff is great apart from one thing. We don’t yet have the tech for it to work. Truck wise I doubt we ever will have.
Replacing ICE with electric now is like trying to fly to the moon in a Tiger Moth. In theory it seems plausible, but in practice it simply isnt happening anytime soon.
JeffA:
I thought one plan was run trucks attached to overhead power cables like trams.
Yep. Carry smaller battery sets, but recharge them whilst running along main routes.
No way that would make too much sense. Wait until Elon Musk comes up with a 100 times more expensive and complicated solution which ultimately won’t even come to life.
Question is how do goods get from rail to its final destination, by road how else.
Containers go from dock to rail heads but they still need wagons to get them to their destination,move wagons off the motorways but they will still be in the towns and cities and local roads
It just over eight years till it will be impossible to buy a new petrol or diesel engined choice for cars AND vans. Sadly the tens of thousands of charging points you’ll need along the route for longer journeys are unlikely to be in place, which is really going to screw the likes of white van man doing distance panic deliveries, or spread out multi drops.
Then take into account those who are towing, whether that be a plant trailer, caravan, horsebox etc. Apart from their range being reduced by the extra train weight, you are going to have an outfit sticking out from the charge point by about thirty five to forty foot. How many charge points will accommodate variables like that?
If you going to have those sort of problems with just cars and lightweight commercials, then it would be reasonable to assume that for heavier HGV vehicles, then the problems are going to be even more profound. Overhead power lines on motorways or major A roads sound okay, but would be lethal if someone crashes a truck into the gantries at high speed and brings the power lines down on top of moving vehicles.
Trouble is, heavier items still need to be moved around and in some of the more remote areas where no rail lines exist, the whole rail/road thing is going to fall flat?
LIBERTY_GUY:
It just over eight years till it will be impossible to buy a new petrol or diesel engined choice for cars AND vans. Sadly the tens of thousands of charging points you’ll need along the route for longer journeys are unlikely to be in place, which is really going to screw the likes of white van man doing distance panic deliveries, or spread out multi drops.
Then take into account those who are towing, whether that be a plant trailer, caravan, horsebox etc. Apart from their range being reduced by the extra train weight, you are going to have an outfit sticking out from the charge point by about thirty five to forty foot. How many charge points will accommodate variables like that?
If you going to have those sort of problems with just cars and lightweight commercials, then it would be reasonable to assume that for heavier HGV vehicles, then the problems are going to be even more profound. Overhead power lines on motorways or major A roads sound okay, but would be lethal if someone crashes a truck into the gantries at high speed and brings the power lines down on top of moving vehicles.
Trouble is, heavier items still need to be moved around and in some of the more remote areas where no rail lines exist, the whole rail/road thing is going to fall flat?
Exactly.
I think the ban on ICE will be delayed. At least when the public realises they won’t be getting their ■■■■ from Amazon the next day and the supermarket shelves are empty the pressure to reinstate them will be vast. The government are banning something essential with no viable alternative to offer. A recipe for disaster I’d say.
To make it even sillier - It’s all ■■■■■■■■ anyway.
Franglais:
18 foot off the ground? Only on main routes remember. The trucks still have batteries.
No need for wires in yards, under bridges, etc.
And how stable is the connector going to be at that height? Sitting roughly 2 metres above the cab
Not been a problem for electric trains that can go a lot faster than hgvs.
I’d be more worried about overtaking/changing lanes. EST used to stand for Edwin Shirley Trucking (remember them yellow and purple), could stand for Electrified Spaghetti Transport if this comes in.
LIBERTY_GUY:
It just over eight years till it will be impossible to buy a new petrol or diesel engined choice for cars AND vans. Sadly the tens of thousands of charging points you’ll need along the route for longer journeys are unlikely to be in place, which is really going to screw the likes of white van man doing distance panic deliveries, or spread out multi drops.
Then take into account those who are towing, whether that be a plant trailer, caravan, horsebox etc. Apart from their range being reduced by the extra train weight, you are going to have an outfit sticking out from the charge point by about thirty five to forty foot. How many charge points will accommodate variables like that?
If you going to have those sort of problems with just cars and lightweight commercials, then it would be reasonable to assume that for heavier HGV vehicles, then the problems are going to be even more profound. Overhead power lines on motorways or major A roads sound okay, but would be lethal if someone crashes a truck into the gantries at high speed and brings the power lines down on top of moving vehicles.
Trouble is, heavier items still need to be moved around and in some of the more remote areas where no rail lines exist, the whole rail/road thing is going to fall flat?
Exactly.
I think the ban on ICE will be delayed. At least when the public realises they won’t be getting their [zb] from Amazon the next day and the supermarket shelves are empty the pressure to reinstate them will be vast. The government are banning something essential with no viable alternative to offer. A recipe for disaster I’d say.
To make it even sillier - It’s all ■■■■■■■■ anyway.
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Without an incentive, or a stick, there is no impetus for change. The fact that a date has been set to ban certain engines (whether realistic or not) has forced the manufacturers to make a real attempt to come up with alternatives, lest they be left behind. More progress has been made in the last decade, than the since the oil crisis in the 70’s, and the widespread realisation of climate change. The days of the ICE engine as we know it are numbered.
Sticking your fingers in your ears, shouting “whaa whaa whaaaa” ain’t going to change that.
Franglais:
18 foot off the ground? Only on main routes remember. The trucks still have batteries.
No need for wires in yards, under bridges, etc.
And how stable is the connector going to be at that height? Sitting roughly 2 metres above the cab
Not been a problem for electric trains that can go a lot faster than hgvs.
I’d be more worried about overtaking/changing lanes. EST used to stand for Edwin Shirley Trucking (remember them yellow and purple), could stand for Electrified Spaghetti Transport if this comes in.
Correct but there is a big difference in the two travelling surfaces high speed lines are like a bowling green compared with the average UK motorway surface
