toonsy:
Cracks me up “the good old days” of handballing, roping and sheeting and so. As if technological advances are a bad thing.
We’ve got a guy at our place - he’s one of “the good old days” crew, believes everything in this day and age is bad, goes on about how everything was better in them days, believes satnavs should be banned for lorry drivers and you should only use the old fashioned map. Yes he has a point when it comes to one’s blindingly following it and hitting bridges, getting stuck etc. but it’s as if using technology to make your life easier is some sort of heinous crime.
I know it’s human nature and we all do it with all aspects of our life and look back thinking “it was so much better then” but I think if you invented a time machine and went back then perhaps you’d realise it wasn’t quite as good as you thought. Or that you weren’t actually thinking that at the time, it’s just the natural effect of what nostalgia does to you.
Franglais:
True, there seems no plans at the moment to drop anything else, just the licence requirement.
But if 7.5t vehicles become more popular, then wont the operators start saying "they arent real trucks, you dont need a special licence, so why an O-licence?" or "I can hire one of these on my car licence, I can have tons of my gear in it,why shoudnt I carry someone else`s?"
Why let someone drive one without a special licence, to keep costs down, but still expect them to pay for DCPC costs?
Sorry i disagree. I looked into getting myself a beaver tail transporter over 3.5 tonnes was told i didnt need an o licence or cpc unless i was carrying out paid work. I was getting it for the sole purpose of transporting my own classic cars so no paid work so no cpc or o licence. As far as i know there isnt a single operator that does paid work that has said that isnt fair and tried to run a fleet of transporters without the appropriate bits of paper
Franglais:
True, there seems no plans at the moment to drop anything else, just the licence requirement.
But if 7.5t vehicles become more popular, then wont the operators start saying "they arent real trucks, you dont need a special licence, so why an O-licence?" or "I can hire one of these on my car licence, I can have tons of my gear in it,why shoudnt I carry someone else`s?"
Why let someone drive one without a special licence, to keep costs down, but still expect them to pay for DCPC costs?
Sorry i disagree. I looked into getting myself a beaver tail transporter over 3.5 tonnes was told i didnt need an o licence or cpc unless i was carrying out paid work. I was getting it for the sole purpose of transporting my own classic cars so no paid work so no cpc or o licence. As far as i know there isnt a single operator that does paid work that has said that isnt fair and tried to run a fleet of transporters without the appropriate bits of paper
There may not be a single LEGITIMATE operator. I don’t think DVSA would agree with your comments though.
Juddian:
What’s changed is that the job is now so easy, and arguably so well paid for such little actual work/nous/skill/effort/muck involved, that is has attracted and allowed to flourish a breed of driver wholly unsuited to the job.
They simply wouldn’t be in the job if it was as it used to be.
No one’s saying either that all new drivers are rubbish and yes there were bad drivers in the past, what’s different is that one had to have some mechanical aptitude to drive the old motors where anyone can now get in a modern truck and take it out on the road, any who can’t see the standards have dropped rapidly is denying reality.
No one’s arguing about wishing going back to those days, but you have to be careful how desirable the job becomes because it doesn’t take a genius to work out that the so called driver shortage and the subsequent well paid job its become can very quickly tip the other way if it becomes flooded with those who just see it as a route to a fast and easy buck, just be careful what you wish for.
this.
I have recently got my class 1 does that mean i have a clue what im doing yet… no it just means for that hour or so i was able to drive to a prescribed standered. Im am by no means an expert driver if i was shown a skelly trailer and told togo pick up a container i wouldnt have a clue nor would i have a clue if i wasgiven a truck with a gearstick. Thats not putting myself down its just i havent had the experience and been shown. Doesnt mean im not willing to learn.
however there is a big difference in my opinion between this and some of the people that turn up with a licence because the moneys good. For example i had someone with me that i was supposed to be showing the ropes as he had come from a car licence and was a new pass. So vehicle checks tacho operation how to check the load (if needed) he had a licence and was supposed to be able to point the thing.
vehicle checks took nearly 1.5 hours i swear if he had a torque wrench in the back of his car he would of checked the tightness of every bolt on the bloody unit he could get his hands on. every scratch, mark or dead fly he wanted to photograph and document. I had to show him how to couple up to the trailor as he wanted to wind the legs down before he had put the unit under it. On the road i said he needed to be in the right hand lane for the junction ahead and he swerved into the lane nearly taking out a car. When i asked why he didnt check his mirrors his excuse was “you told me to do it”. On arriving at the turn around point he had to pick up another trailer and missed the pin then proceded to try and drive 50 yards away from the trailer with the airlines still attached which luckely i managed to stop him. then on top of that decided that to disconect the airlines he couldnt reach one of them so rather than warlk around the unit to the other side he stood on the 5th wheel to reach it. His final silly question/comment to me was well how do i tell if the bridge is too low for me. and couldnt understand that if the marking on the bridge was x and the truck height was y and x<y it wouldnt fit.
turned out that the company he worked for went bust and decided that he needed to earn x to make his bills etc and lorry drivers were well paid (75k+) (his words) and it was an easy job so he decided to do that.
This is the difference that is being alluded to i think
Franglais:
True, there seems no plans at the moment to drop anything else, just the licence requirement.
But if 7.5t vehicles become more popular, then wont the operators start saying "they arent real trucks, you dont need a special licence, so why an O-licence?" or "I can hire one of these on my car licence, I can have tons of my gear in it,why shoudnt I carry someone else`s?"
Why let someone drive one without a special licence, to keep costs down, but still expect them to pay for DCPC costs?
Sorry i disagree. I looked into getting myself a beaver tail transporter over 3.5 tonnes was told i didnt need an o licence or cpc unless i was carrying out paid work. I was getting it for the sole purpose of transporting my own classic cars so no paid work so no cpc or o licence. As far as i know there isnt a single operator that does paid work that has said that isnt fair and tried to run a fleet of transporters without the appropriate bits of paper
There may not be a single LEGITIMATE operator. I don’t think DVSA would agree with your comments though.
sorry i thought you ment legitimate operators would cry that it wasnt fair and would try and get the rules changed so they didnt need the correct bits
cooper1203:
This is the difference that is being alluded to i think
I think you’re right there.
I’ve long been of the opinion that good lorry drivers are not made, to a certain extent they are born. Nor is driving a lorry a job, it’s more a way of life.
Your example is probably at the extreme; one does have to wonder how he ever passed the test for a car let alone an artic. But I too have come across people who have a Class 1 but genuinely cannot drive. Lack of visual perception and spatial awareness cannot be educated out of folk, nor can sheer stupidity.
Actrosman:
Do you mean allowing those that drive cars to go straight to class 1? We have several at my depot already….and yes, their standards and abilities are way lower than those that went up through the ranks over a few years
What a load of rubbish.
You’re trying to compare a new pass to someone with 50 years experience.
Relatively new pass (2.5 years) no previous experience apart from his Corsa, making a poor attempt at getting on a bay
Actrosman:
Do you mean allowing those that drive cars to go straight to class 1? We have several at my depot already….and yes, their standards and abilities are way lower than those that went up through the ranks over a few years
What a load of rubbish.
You’re trying to compare a new pass to someone with 50 years experience.
Relatively new pass (2.5 years) no previous experience apart from his Corsa, making a poor attempt at getting on a bay
I’m glad you agree with me. Someone with little experience is not as good as someone with 50 years experience such as yourself. As you say, hard to argue with.
For some reason my post hasn’t appeared, probably pressed cancle LOL.
Maybe there is a middle ground and training providers should do the testing rather than having to go through a proper test. Can you drive a fork lift without going through a test?
However isn’t it legal for 16 year olds to be driving 30T tractors and trailers on public roads without a licence, how do they get insurance?
I have recently got my class 1 does that mean i have a clue what im doing yet… no it just means for that hour or so i was able to drive to a prescribed standered. Im am by no means an expert driver if i was shown a skelly trailer and told togo pick up a container i wouldnt have a clue nor would i have a clue if i wasgiven a truck with a gearstick. Thats not putting myself down its just i havent had the experience and been shown. Doesnt mean im not willing to learn.
however there is a big difference in my opinion between this and some of the people that turn up with a licence because the moneys good. For example i had someone with me that i was supposed to be showing the ropes as he had come from a car licence and was a new pass. So vehicle checks tacho operation how to check the load (if needed) he had a licence and was supposed to be able to point the thing.
vehicle checks took nearly 1.5 hours i swear if he had a torque wrench in the back of his car he would of checked the tightness of every bolt on the bloody unit he could get his hands on. every scratch, mark or dead fly he wanted to photograph and document. I had to show him how to couple up to the trailor as he wanted to wind the legs down before he had put the unit under it. On the road i said he needed to be in the right hand lane for the junction ahead and he swerved into the lane nearly taking out a car. When i asked why he didnt check his mirrors his excuse was “you told me to do it”. On arriving at the turn around point he had to pick up another trailer and missed the pin then proceded to try and drive 50 yards away from the trailer with the airlines still attached which luckely i managed to stop him. then on top of that decided that to disconect the airlines he couldnt reach one of them so rather than warlk around the unit to the other side he stood on the 5th wheel to reach it. His final silly question/comment to me was well how do i tell if the bridge is too low for me. and couldnt understand that if the marking on the bridge was x and the truck height was y and x<y it wouldnt fit.
turned out that the company he worked for went bust and decided that he needed to earn x to make his bills etc and lorry drivers were well paid (75k+) (his words) and it was an easy job so he decided to do that.
This is the difference that is being alluded to i think
They are out there, quite how they manage to scrape through the test is a mystery, i’d have hated being sat with himbecause when it goes pear shaped you’re implicated (where he obviously needs a competent full time trainer), when i got given one particular bloke to train up on a transporter refused to have anything else to do with him after the first utterly terrifying day out on the road, never had to do that before or since, i was proved right within a matter of weeks because he had an incident entirely down to him that cost well into 6 figures and possibly nudging 7, he should never have been allowed to carry on training for his own safety let alone the public but sometimes companies/operators can’t be told and have to learn the hard way.
For all that the general public look down their noses at us it isn’t a job for numpties, and the industry hell bent on deskilling itself will backfire.
Difference with you is you are intererested in learning all you can and not afraid to ask and i bet you get good advice and help when you need it both here and out on the road, ask anyone who’s been doing it for years they’ll all say the same, every day’s a schoolday no matter how long you’ve been in the saddle.
Juddian:
, i was proved right within a matter of weeks because he had an incident entirely down to him that cost well into 6 figures and possibly nudging 7, .
I think some people need to remove their rose tinted spectacles. Many jobs years ago were not as safe as they are these days, not just truck driving.
I like many started on vans, with flat bed vans and roping and sheeting, moved on to 7.5 tonners then class 2 and then finally class one.
It didn’t do me any harm but things and times have changed and people need to get used to that. Not keep harking “back to the good old days”.
Things change and technology changes it’s the way of the world and advancement.
In both times there will be and are those who are crap at the job and will cause carnage, whether like back in the day or now there will always be those people.
simcor:
I think some people need to remove their rose tinted spectacles. Many jobs years ago were not as safe as they are these days, not just truck driving.
In both times there will be and are those who are crap at the job and will cause carnage, whether like back in the day or now there will always be those people.
In the old days there were deffo crap drivers yes, but there is a big difference between a poor driver and an incapable, inept and ■■■■ useless one.
The latter were filtered out, because in those days driving an old truck and a car was like comparing chalk to cheese, they were not that easy, enigmatic non synchronized gearboxes to name one aspect, but nowadays a truck is essentially the same as driving a bloody big car in terms of similarities … so imo that is why we get the clowns and the chimps, because there is no net to stop them getting through any longer…virtually anybody can pass a test to drive a one.
After saying that there are also a lot of good drivers today as in older times, it’s just that the previously mentioned clowns and chimps stand out more.
simcor:
I think some people need to remove their rose tinted spectacles. Many jobs years ago were not as safe as they are these days, not just truck driving.
In both times there will be and are those who are crap at the job and will cause carnage, whether like back in the day or now there will always be those people.
In the old days there were deffo crap drivers yes, but there is a big difference between a poor driver and an incapable, inept and [zb] useless one.
The latter were filtered out, because in those days driving an old truck and a car was like comparing chalk to cheese, they were not that easy, enigmatic non synchronized gearboxes to name one aspect, but nowadays a truck is essentially the same as driving a bloody big car in terms of similarities … so imo that is why we get the clowns and the chimps, because there is no net to stop them getting through any longer…virtually anybody can pass a test to drive a one.
After saying that there are also a lot of good drivers today as in older times, it’s just that the previously mentioned clowns and chimps stand out more.
They do but would you honestly want to go back to crappy knackered boxes giving you a workout or just go with the flow. Not to mention all the other stuff like no air con etc and uncomfortable to drive.
Things change and times change as I said, but either way there will still be numpties that should not be let loose in a car let alone a truck.
But look after yourself and keep out of their way is the best bet.
