I understand why the use of mobile devices are a no no, I’ve seen many drivers with a phone stuck to there ears not indicating because they don’t have a free hand and one day I saw a woman in a polish plated car using a tablet turning right at a junction on the wrong side of the road into on coming traffic.
All our vehicles are equipped with cab phones and I’m constantly asked why I don’t answer it, I’ve even put mine on silent as the tone is rather annoying and if you miss the first call they keep on calling, I remember seeing something quite a while ago that a fleet with cab phones were exempt as they could be classed as a radio device!
Stephenjp:
I understand why the use of mobile devices are a no no, I’ve seen many drivers with a phone stuck to there ears not indicating because they don’t have a free hand and one day I saw a woman in a polish plated car using a tablet turning right at a junction on the wrong side of the road into on coming traffic.
All our vehicles are equipped with cab phones and I’m constantly asked why I don’t answer it, I’ve even put mine on silent as the tone is rather annoying and if you miss the first call they keep on calling, I remember seeing something quite a while ago that a fleet with cab phones were exempt as they could be classed as a radio device!
That’s what I was saying, if you’re some kind of inept buffoon you’ll come a cropper with a phone,.where as a normal person will manage with no difficulty.
I used my first cabphone in 1985 as an owner driver, (it cost me a grand in those days btw ,.so what would it be in today’s terms?) I was never off the bloody thing, it’s what you did in those days, and I managed to kill not one fluffy kitten, and lived to tell the tale myself.
So because of the inept it became overnight…‘‘dangerous’’.and a big no no.
If you keep drumming in to people that Black is White enough times. then they will not only go on to believe it, but repeat it (a bit like the ‘‘benefits’’ of in cab cameras and drivers ) a technique perfected by Mr Goebbles and his mates.
Tell you what Commissioner, want to know who the biggest offender for this in my view - transport offices.
They know I’m driving, vehicles are tracked, so they know I’m on the move - yet they still call and call. Then the texts start - call the office immediately!
So I hope while you’re issuing 4 week driver suspensions, will you issue 4 week O license suspensions if it can proved the office was basically harassing the driver? There are way more dodgy operators than drivers by a country mile.
^^^^^
Spot on. Cab phones should be banned completely exactly the same thing happens. It is not holding the phone which causes the problem it is the distraction of trying to hold a conversation…and even more so with the attitude of some transport companies with “it simply MUST happen”. There was never anything wrong with the BT pagers absolutely nothing has to be dealt with ‘this instant’, it can bloody well wait a few minutes.
^^^^ that is a valid point, but being a contrary git I only answer when it suits me. Tbf our lot only call me if something vital has changed, but I am prepared to ignore any office calls for days at a time. I’d love to see anyone try to discipline a driver for not answering his/her phone.
cav551:
^^^^^
Spot on. Cab phones should be banned completely exactly the same thing happens. It is not holding the phone which causes the problem it is the distraction of trying to hold a conversation…and even more so with the attitude of some transport companies with “it simply MUST happen”. There was never anything wrong with the BT pagers absolutely nothing has to be dealt with ‘this instant’, it can bloody well wait a few minutes.
Are you saying you HAVE to answer it?
I don’t want phones banned in cabs just because other drivers aint got the balls to ignore calls ifrom their office in case they get…‘‘told off’’.
Ffs ! are we adult drivers or school kids.
Just do what I do, ignore the ■■■■ thing when it suits, and ring in later,.and only if you feel the need.
As for concentration issues, as I’ve said it depends if you are (or are not) capable of doing more than one thing at a time.
I’m ■■■■ sick of the ‘Ban everything’ attitude in this country, usually just for the behaviour and abilities of a minority.
Londontrucker123:
Tell you what Commissioner, want to know who the biggest offender for this in my view - transport offices.
They know I’m driving, vehicles are tracked, so they know I’m on the move - yet they still call and call. Then the texts start - call the office immediately!
So I hope while you’re issuing 4 week driver suspensions, will you issue 4 week O license suspensions if it can proved the office was basically harassing the driver? There are way more dodgy operators than drivers by a country mile.
Hmmmm…That’s a really interesting idea.
Drivers have in-cab cameras, GPS tracking, telematics and tachographs. Every second of their day is recorded. In some cases the office can even watch/monitor the driver in real time for harsh braking or see what he’s doing at that moment.
I wonder why they don’t record calls and texts to drivers?
Mr Traffic Commissioner - you’re a clever bloke, you understand the industry, you know the pressure the office puts on drivers. You can’t just wimp out and “blame the driver” for everything. In a perfect world every driver would tell the office where to go, that’s not so easy when you’ve got rent to pay and kids to feed.
Surely for safety and a complete picture recording calls is not just sensible but should be mandatory just like aircraft and traffic control, every interaction is recorded. Or maybe you don’t really want to see what we all know?
adam277:
I think if he just posted a few pictures like the police do on twitter of the incident just mentioning how the driver got caught and what a [zb] the driver is it would of been fine. Just too preachy.
I wouldn’t expect anything else from a TC, and if you think Nick posting here is too preachy, you should see them in action in a PI. Admittedly I’ve never seen Nick in action, but I wouldn’t imagine he’s much different from any of his cohort.
I got a grilling from TC Simon Evans, not because I’d done anything wrong, but just for him to decide if he was going to approve me as TM for a company who got on the wrong side of him (before my involvement). We were all happy to find that he did approve my appointment.
TCs are essentially judge, jury and executioner in their own “court”, answerable only to the Home Secretary, so if you don’t like the cut of Nick’s jib, Ms Patel would be the one to talk to… (good luck with that )
Londontrucker123:
Tell you what Commissioner, want to know who the biggest offender for this in my view - transport offices.
They know I’m driving, vehicles are tracked, so they know I’m on the move - yet they still call and call. Then the texts start - call the office immediately!
So I hope while you’re issuing 4 week driver suspensions, will you issue 4 week O license suspensions if it can proved the office was basically harassing the driver? There are way more dodgy operators than drivers by a country mile.
Hmmmm…That’s a really interesting idea.
Drivers have in-cab cameras, GPS tracking, telematics and tachographs. Every second of their day is recorded. In some cases the office can even watch/monitor the driver in real time for harsh braking or see what he’s doing at that moment.
I wonder why they don’t record calls and texts to drivers?
Mr Traffic Commissioner - you’re a clever bloke, you understand the industry, you know the pressure the office puts on drivers. You can’t just wimp out and “blame the driver” for everything. In a perfect world every driver would tell the office where to go, that’s not so easy when you’ve got rent to pay and kids to feed.
Surely for safety and a complete picture recording calls is not just sensible but should be mandatory just like aircraft and traffic control, every interaction is recorded. Or maybe you don’t really want to see what we all know?
Conversations may not be recorded, but logs are there for all calls and texts in the phone arent they? Habitual calls from office to driver at work are plain to see by times logged against tacho card records. Its all there already isn`t it?
Londontrucker123:
Tell you what Commissioner, want to know who the biggest offender for this in my view - transport offices.
They know I’m driving, vehicles are tracked, so they know I’m on the move - yet they still call and call. Then the texts start - call the office immediately!
So I hope while you’re issuing 4 week driver suspensions, will you issue 4 week O license suspensions if it can proved the office was basically harassing the driver? There are way more dodgy operators than drivers by a country mile.
Hmmmm…That’s a really interesting idea.
Drivers have in-cab cameras, GPS tracking, telematics and tachographs. Every second of their day is recorded. In some cases the office can even watch/monitor the driver in real time for harsh braking or see what he’s doing at that moment.
I wonder why they don’t record calls and texts to drivers?
Mr Traffic Commissioner - you’re a clever bloke, you understand the industry, you know the pressure the office puts on drivers. You can’t just wimp out and “blame the driver” for everything. In a perfect world every driver would tell the office where to go, that’s not so easy when you’ve got rent to pay and kids to feed.
Surely for safety and a complete picture recording calls is not just sensible but should be mandatory just like aircraft and traffic control, every interaction is recorded. Or maybe you don’t really want to see what we all know?
Conversations may not be recorded, but logs are there for all calls and texts in the phone arent they? Habitual calls from office to driver at work are plain to see by times logged against tacho card records. Its all there already isn`t it?
Conversations CAN be recorded if both parties agree. It’s a safety issue just like in cab cameras. There’s really no defense not to do it.
Logs wouldn’t show the pressure and strong arm tactics used on drivers to do questionable stuff.
If you’ve ever watched those aircraft investigation type programs you’ll know what I mean about a chain of events or external pressure on the pilot from air traffic control or their employer to get stuff done. It’s always interesting to hear ATC and the flight recorder.
Basically, what I’m saying is play them at their own game - I need in cab cameras and GPS and trackers and tachographs and telematics to keep you, the driver safe
…thank you boss, now can you record all calls, texts and emails to me as well because we wouldn’t want any misunderstanding when I get collared do we.
It’s a really cheap and easy thing to do. Makes you wonder why they’ve never done it if it’s really all about safety.
adam277:
I think if he just posted a few pictures like the police do on twitter of the incident just mentioning how the driver got caught and what a [zb] the driver is it would of been fine. Just too preachy.
I wouldn’t expect anything else from a TC, and if you think Nick posting here is too preachy, you should see them in action in a PI. Admittedly I’ve never seen Nick in action, but I wouldn’t imagine he’s much different from any of his cohort.
I got a grilling from TC Simon Evans, not because I’d done anything wrong, but just for him to decide if he was going to approve me as TM for a company who got on the wrong side of him (before my involvement). We were all happy to find that he did approve my appointment.
TCs are essentially judge, jury and executioner in their own “court”, answerable only to the Home Secretary, so if you don’t like the cut of Nick’s jib, Ms Patel would be the one to talk to… (good luck with that )
Well, if you think the TC system should be changed or that we should be abolished, the Government is consulting on precisely that question at this moment. Here’s the link: gov.uk/government/consultati … n-function
This is your chance to get rid of us. But be careful what you wish for!
Sorry for being preachy. Posters above are right when they say that some operators put pressure on drivers by constantly phoning them up. Of course I am aware of that and I always take a very dim view of these operators in public inquiries. But this is a forum for drivers, so I tried to tailor my message to drivers rather than operators.
Responding to some of the other points: speaking on a hands-free device, though legal, is still dangerous. Research by (I think) Southampton University has shown that using a hands-free phone has a concentration impairment effect twice that of being exactly at the maximum legal blood/alcohol level. Talking on a phone to someone is not the same as talking to a passenger in your cab: the passenger can see what is happening in the vehicle and the traffic situation and can moderate their conversation accordingly (often unconsciously). The person at the other end of the phone just keeps wittering on regardless.
A bit off the topic of the posts above but what i would like to know from the commissionaire is why is it OK for police drivers to talk into those small phones they have on the front of their uniform (see picture below) when its not OK for the rest of us, i watch a couple of these 999 interceptor type cop shows on the T.V (the guys in the picture are from one of them )and they do it all the time surely with the technology we have today they should be hands free not shouting road names down a phone with one had on the phone and one on the wheel doing 50mph through the middle of a town centre chasing a car thief, and please don’t say they are trained to do it driving at that speed with one hand on the wheel is not safe however qualified you are.
SHYTOT:
Mobile phones should be banned at work we managed without them years ago
there is far too much carnage and devastation lost lives children included
not to mention lost productivity.
They can also massively improve productivity, especially for lorry driving. You’re not having to take time out of the journey to find a phone and then make the phone call, you can take it on the move. They also have satnavs with real time updated traffic information so you can avoid being sat in a jam for 5hrs or more on the motorway when there’s been a serious accident. In an indoor setting if you need to contact someone you can do it from where you’re stood, you don’t have to go to a desk to find a phone to use and if you need to find something out whilst you’re doing something you have the entirety of the knowledge of man at your fingertips in your pocket - no need to go to a desk to use a computer or to go find a book and then wade through that book - a quick “hey Siri” or “hello google” followed by your question gets you an answer almost instantly.
And regards the carnage, devastation and lost lives despite the protestations about both mobile phone use and speeding road deaths are at just above a third of the level they were in 1979 despite the number of vehicles increasing from ~18 million to ~34 million and mobile phone use massively increasing over the same time. Surely if it was as bad as the government and police claim it is then the number should be rising rapidly given that there are more mobile phones than people in this country, especially since 2009 when the number of road deaths per year has pretty much remained flat whilst mobile phone use has exploded due to the widescale adoption of unlimited calls and texts and apps like Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger being used for voice and video calls?
Road deaths in reported road crashes in Great Britain, 1979-2019, DfT RRCGB 2020
They can also massively improve productivity, especially for lorry driving. You’re not having to take time out of the journey to find a phone and then make the phone call, you can take it on the move.
I don’t think anyone seriously wants phones to be banned from vehicles but something has to be done to stop people using them while driving (all drivers not just trucks) the problem is the fine and points are still low enough to make people take the risk if they were to bring in a months automatic driving ban and car confiscation for that month the majority of these people would stop overnight.
Most new vehicles now come with Bluetooth connectivity so the days of needing to touch your pone will soon be over, some think talking hands free is just as dangerous as hand held having done both i can honestly say i don’t find hands free any more of a distraction than talking to a passenger.
It never ceases to amaze me the number of drivers of top of the range/ executive cars with a phone to their ear. These are all new models with in-built bluetooth tethering as standard
By the look of the drivers they are in good employment and must be of reasonable intelligence to be in a position to be driving such vehicles yet they still put themselves and others at risk, never mind their risk of prosecution
It’s good to see a TC with their finger on the pulse and upfront enough to participate in the discussion
Traffic Commissioner:
Responding to some of the other points: speaking on a hands-free device, though legal, is still dangerous. Research by (I think) Southampton University has shown that using a hands-free phone has a concentration impairment effect twice that of being exactly at the maximum legal blood/alcohol level. Talking on a phone to someone is not the same as talking to a passenger in your cab: the passenger can see what is happening in the vehicle and the traffic situation and can moderate their conversation accordingly (often unconsciously). The person at the other end of the phone just keeps wittering on regardless.
A joint study into mobile phone use between Carnegie Mellon and LSE universities found calling from the car does not cause crashes.
The study examined calling and crash data from 2002 to 2005, a period when most cellphone carriers offered pricing plans with free calls on weekdays after 9 p.m. Identifying drivers as those whose cellphone calls were routed through multiple cellular towers, they first showed that drivers increased call volume by more than 7 percent at 9 p.m. They then compared the relative crash rate before and after 9 p.m. using data on approximately 8 million crashes across nine states and all fatal crashes across the nation. They found that the increased cellphone use by drivers at 9 p.m. had no corresponding effect on crash rates.
Additionally, the researchers analyzed the effects of legislation banning cellphone use, enacted in several states, and similarly found that the legislation had no effect on the crash rate.
Referring back to the Southampton University study and why their study and other laboratory studies may be flawed…
“One thought is that drivers may compensate for the distraction of cellphone use by selectively deciding when to make a call or consciously driving more carefully during a call,” Bhargava said. “This is one of a few explanations that could explain why laboratory studies have shown different results. The implications for policymakers considering bans depend on what is actually driving this lack of an effect. For example, if drivers do compensate for distraction, then penalizing cellphone use as a secondary rather than a primary offense could make sense. In the least, this study and others like it, suggest we should revisit the presumption that talking on a cellphone while driving is as dangerous as widely perceived.”
And as I’ve shown above, rates have remained constant for over a decade despite significant increases in mobile phone ownership, usage and number of vehicles.
By the look of the drivers they are in good employment and must be of reasonable intelligence to be in a position to be driving such vehicles yet they still put themselves and others at risk, never mind their risk of prosecution
The only reason can be they don’t think its likely they will be caught and a £200 fine and 6 points is not going to bother them too much so they risk it, make it £1000 and 11 points and lets see how many we see then. (i would prefer a instant ban as i said in my last post)
In my opinion transport offices should never be calling personal mobile phones when they know a driver is on the move. It is distracting having it ring and then wondering who it was that was calling, which there is no way of finding out, because the phone is in the driver’s pocket. The driver is then in a quandary about whether to pull into the services to check who it was that was calling. If it wasn’t the transport office, then the driver could be accused of making unnecessary stops every time the phone rings. If the driver answers the phone and it is clear he was driving, the transport office could say he/she shouldn’t have answered the phone while driving and produce a piece of paper that was signed 3 years ago, when the driver agreed not to use a phone at all while driving, handsfree or otherwise.
At least with a cab phone or a work phone, you know who it is that is calling, so you know to pull in and take the call. Most other professions involving mobile work, such as salesman, engineer etc, a phone is a standard bit of kit. We all know that in the event of an emergency or another reason to phone the office, a driver ends up using his/her own personal minutes and everyone in the transport office has his/her personal mobile phone number. Quite often this list of numbers is freely available to anyone that happens to be in the office and often personal mobile phone numbers are given out to other drivers, possibly drivers who the driver would never voluntarily give his personal mobile phone number to.
This is a reason why I decided to have a secondary phone and number so my main personal mobile phone number is separate.
,.so what would it be in today’s terms?) I was never off the bloody thing, it’s what you did in those days, and I managed to kill not one fluffy kitten, and lived to tell the tale myself.
) a technique perfected by Mr Goebbles and his mates.
I wouldn’t expect anything else from a TC, and if you think Nick posting here is too preachy, you should see them in action in a PI. Admittedly I’ve never seen Nick in action, but I wouldn’t imagine he’s much different from any of his cohort.
)
