Carryfast:
I think you’re confusing the massive gap between the performance and comfort levels of older types v the strictly controlled but more comparable outputs and performance of newer types.IE then it could be anything from a day cab Volvo F7/DAF 2300/2500 to a V8 Scania 142/3 or Volvo F12,V8 IVECO,DAF 3600 or the big power Rolls/■■■■■■■ Brits.Any of the latter would be more than capable of sorting out a limited modern in those 38t gross pre limiter times.
Which part? The bit about crawling up a hill?
Volvo F7 or DAF 2300/2500 v the big power premium options in the day absolutely.
IE the latter of those ain’t going to be crawling up any hills bearing in mind a similar power to weight ratio as a modern.But will also obviously leave the limited modern wagon standing on anything like the flat without the limiter getting in the way.
Carryfast:
I think you’re confusing the massive gap between the performance and comfort levels of older types v the strictly controlled but more comparable outputs and performance of newer types.IE then it could be anything from a day cab Volvo F7/DAF 2300/2500 to a V8 Scania 142/3 or Volvo F12,V8 IVECO,DAF 3600 or the big power Rolls/■■■■■■■ Brits.Any of the latter would be more than capable of sorting out a limited modern in those 38t gross pre limiter times.
Which part? The bit about crawling up a hill?
Volvo F7 or DAF 2300/2500 v the big power premium options in the day absolutely.
IE the latter of those ain’t going to be crawling up any hills bearing in mind a similar power to weight ratio as a modern.But will also obviously leave the limited modern wagon standing on anything like the flat without the limiter getting in the way.
Suppose. I was only talking from my experiences driving lorries that were common. As a percentage far more lorries back then did have a lot of slow crawling going on. A V8 scania wasnt a common across the board motor. Take quite a common one, a 360 113 Scania. You would be going slow up the steeper grades. Today the weight of lorries is still 44 and as a whole, most fleet motors pull fine. Where they fail is they’re a bit, well, boring to drive.
What I miss about older lorries is the ease of repairing them, a bit of knowledge and a few spanners could get you out if trouble, now it’s all computers and sensors which hardly anybody knows how to deal with, so they just keep throwing expensive parts at it until they stumble on a cure.
With regard to the early “supertrucks” I’ve been fortunate to own an F16, a 143, a 48 TurboStar and a 520 EuroStar and they had some poke for sure, but it would take a few big hills to make them much faster over a given stretch of road than lower powered lorries and they all used more fuel doing so, especially the F16, that was so bad that I voluntarily fitted a speed limiter before they became compulsory and had it set at 90km/h when the limit was 100km/h. For sheer power nothing could touch the IVECOs, especially the 520, that thing was an absolute animal, it was a very underated lorry and it never rusted either.
All this talk of pre limiter days, of course a pre limited truck will be faster on the flat but put any modern truck with big power and torque against something like a 14l ■■■■■■■ 320-400 and no way would it keep with its modern counterpart. That video F16 470 vs FH16 750 says it all. My old F16 identical to the youtube vid except colour would do 120kmh and would outrun my current FH500 and anything on the road at the time on the gradients without sometimes even a down change but put that F16 against a new 660-750hp FH version and 3550nm of torque it would leave it for dead on a long hill. Rose tints are very tinted here…
I had one of JCB’s demo fleet in here a few months back to load a demo machine. quite honestly I could have just robbed him of it and drove off . ERF 8 wheeler , twin splitter , ■■■■■■■ . it was like it had just come out of sandbach,
I would like to have another go in a Transcon, or a Sed Atk 401 with a 13 speed Fuller to see if I can still change up and down the box, without using a clutch (apart from set off) and still make it sing like I used to.
Or listen to the torquey rasp driving a V8 141 Scania, while pulling uphill, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Would I swap any of these for my modern brand new Merc full time? No.
That is another matter, same as I would like another go in a 70s Mini Cooper S, or a TR6, but would not swap it for my more modern car with all the kit and comforts…despite it being 10 yrs old now
tonyj105:
I had one of JCB’s demo fleet in here a few months back to load a demo machine. quite honestly I could have just robbed him of it and drove off . ERF 8 wheeler , twin splitter , ■■■■■■■ . it was like it had just come out of sandbach,
Talking of JCB, I think anyone who drives/owns one of their products would gladly drive an old model. I’ve heard of loads of problems people have had with their excavators but ours at 14 years old looks a bit rough but just keeps going.
Our two year old 3CX however was a right PITA with crap backup to go with it. It’s going alright now, and we no longer use dealer fitters on it anymore either.
robroy:
I would like to have another go in a Transcon, or a Sed Atk 401 with a 13 speed Fuller to see if I can still change up and down the box, without using a clutch (apart from set off) and still make it sing like I used to.
Or listen to the torquey rasp driving a V8 141 Scania, while pulling uphill, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Would I swap any of these for my modern brand new Merc full time? No.
That is another matter, same as I would like another go in a 70s Mini Cooper S, or a TR6, but would not swap it for my more modern car with all the kit and comforts…despite it being 10 yrs old now
Rob,
You’ll soon be out of the Sed Atk if you go to stick your head out of window and crack it on that stupid aluminium strip
I miss the old lorries and sometimes wonder how I ever got the job done. 230 bhp was normal at 32 ton gross; 290 bhp and you were king of the road. Then 300 to 330 was the norm and the flyers were rated at 420. Now 480 bhp is standard at 40 ton and 600 to 700 is available. Where have all these horses come from and are they still the same size?
robroy:
I would like to have another go in a Transcon, or a Sed Atk 401 with a 13 speed Fuller to see if I can still change up and down the box, without using a clutch (apart from set off) and still make it sing like I used to.
Or listen to the torquey rasp driving a V8 141 Scania, while pulling uphill, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Would I swap any of these for my modern brand new Merc full time? No.
That is another matter, same as I would like another go in a 70s Mini Cooper S, or a TR6, but would not swap it for my more modern car with all the kit and comforts…despite it being 10 yrs old now
Rob,
You’ll soon be out of the Sed Atk if you go to stick your head out of window and crack it on that stupid aluminium strip
Yeh I remember those, with those stupid little side windows on a catch that used to drop out when the truck got older.
A good hard working truck though.
robroy:
I would like to have another go in a Transcon, or a Sed Atk 401 with a 13 speed Fuller to see if I can still change up and down the box, without using a clutch (apart from set off) and still make it sing like I used to.
Or listen to the torquey rasp driving a V8 141 Scania, while pulling uphill, but purely for nostalgic reasons. Would I swap any of these for my modern brand new Merc full time? No.
That is another matter, same as I would like another go in a 70s Mini Cooper S, or a TR6, but would not swap it for my more modern car with all the kit and comforts…despite it being 10 yrs old now
Rob,
You’ll soon be out of the Sed Atk if you go to stick your head out of window and crack it on that stupid aluminium strip
Yeh I remember those, with those stupid little side windows on a catch that used to drop out when the truck got older.
A good hard working truck though.
0
Dead ringer for my old girl when i first got her, B reg too, she got painted in the firms livery after about 3 months, agreed a very good working lorry, probably my favourite tractor of all. my gaffer had the rear windows fitted cos i did a lot of tight farm work but the fitters left me the insulating pads which i velcro’d on at night, do miss rear windows.
AndrewG:
All this talk of pre limiter days, of course a pre limited truck will be faster on the flat but put any modern truck with big power and torque against something like a 14l ■■■■■■■ 320-400 and no way would it keep with its modern counterpart. That video F16 470 vs FH16 750 says it all. My old F16 identical to the youtube vid except colour would do 120kmh and would outrun my current FH500 and anything on the road at the time on the gradients without sometimes even a down change but put that F16 against a new 660-750hp FH version and 3550nm of torque it would leave it for dead on a long hill. Rose tints are very tinted here…
The point is that we’re comparing something limited to 90 kmh regardless of whether it’s got 750 hp and which by definition ain’t going to get anywhere near 120 kmh or even 65 mph.While any advantage on the hills is also limited to that speed regardless.While in the real world it’s just a comparison between reasonably closely matched outputs on a 10 hp per tonne basis in which case 300 + at 38 t gross isn’t much different to 400 + at 40-44t gross.Bearing in mind that there were also plenty of examples of around 280-300 hp + running at 32t gross or less in the day.In which case on the basis of unlimted v limited the modern is toast.
newmercman:
With regard to the early “supertrucks” I’ve been fortunate to own an F16, a 143, a 48 TurboStar and a 520 EuroStar and they had some poke for sure, but it would take a few big hills to make them much faster over a given stretch of road than lower powered lorries and they all used more fuel doing so, especially the F16, that was so bad that I voluntarily fitted a speed limiter before they became compulsory and had it set at 90km/h when the limit was 100km/h. For sheer power nothing could touch the IVECOs, especially the 520, that thing was an absolute animal, it was a very underated lorry and it never rusted either.
I was thinking that maybe a reference to that Independent Express MAN example you’ve made previously on the roads of the 1980’s v modern 750 Volvo limited to 90 kmh running on modern managed motorways might decide the the issue for once and for all.Bearing in mind the guvnor is paying for the fuel and speed is everything.
AndrewG:
All this talk of pre limiter days, of course a pre limited truck will be faster on the flat but put any modern truck with big power and torque against something like a 14l ■■■■■■■ 320-400 and no way would it keep with its modern counterpart. That video F16 470 vs FH16 750 says it all. My old F16 identical to the youtube vid except colour would do 120kmh and would outrun my current FH500 and anything on the road at the time on the gradients without sometimes even a down change but put that F16 against a new 660-750hp FH version and 3550nm of torque it would leave it for dead on a long hill. Rose tints are very tinted here…
The point is that we’re comparing something limited to 90 kmh regardless of whether it’s got 750 hp and which by definition ain’t going to get anywhere near 120 kmh or even 65 mph.While any advantage on the hills is also limited to that speed regardless.While in the real world it’s just a comparison between reasonably closely matched outputs on a 10 hp per tonne basis in which case 300 + at 38 t gross isn’t much different to 400 + at 40-44t gross.Bearing in mind that there were also plenty of examples of around 280-300 hp + running at 32t gross or less in the day.In which case on the basis of unlimted v limited the modern is toast.
Except on the hills, take a very long gradient for example the likes of which i do regularly, the modern truck takes it in its stride whereas the old Sudden Accident or ERF (examples) with whatever mish mash combination they fitted would be down to a crawl. My old F7 would do 115kph downhill and blast past many trucks even at 40tonnes but fall flat on its face on the next hill.Modern trucks will keep a steady speed uphill or down, my Fh500 does anyway at 100kph, an old truck in comparison the driver has to work the guts out of it with constant rises and dips in speed. I like something that flattens the hills out,no such thing as too much power, nothing like a big hitter, my next one will be an FH16, maybe not the 750 but ill be happy with 660…
AndrewG:
the old Sudden Accident or ERF (examples) with whatever mish mash combination they fitted …
I realise these trucks were very much ‘of their time’ and inevitably not as good as a modern truck, but you could never call a combo of 14 litre Big Cam ■■■■■■■■ a 13 Speed Eaton Fuller, with a Rockwell axle a ‘‘mish mash’’
Modern trucks might gain on long hills but they don’t appear to perform that well on the steep banks around Matlock where I live or on the climb out of Chesterfield towards Matlock. I follow plenty of them in my car and to be honest they don’t seem to go any better than they did 15 or so years ago as they allways seem to be struggling? Maybe you have to get them ‘wound up’ and aren’t good from a dead start? I also followed a newish loaded eight legger up Sutton Bank a couple of months ago and it was painfull, I reckon my old 335 Rolls engined Foden would have been quicker. Modern trucks also seem to struggle away from traffic lights etc despite all their HP, most ‘old stuff’ with a Fuller box would ■■■■ all over them!
