AndrewG:
Carryfast:
The point is that we’re comparing something limited to 90 kmh regardless of whether it’s got 750 hp and which by definition ain’t going to get anywhere near 120 kmh or even 65 mph.While any advantage on the hills is also limited to that speed regardless.While in the real world it’s just a comparison between reasonably closely matched outputs on a 10 hp per tonne basis in which case 300 + at 38 t gross isn’t much different to 400 + at 40-44t gross.Bearing in mind that there were also plenty of examples of around 280-300 hp + running at 32t gross or less in the day.In which case on the basis of unlimted v limited the modern is toast.
Except on the hills, take a very long gradient for example the likes of which i do regularly, the modern truck takes it in its stride whereas the old Sudden Accident or ERF (examples) with whatever mish mash combination they fitted would be down to a crawl. My old F7 would do 115kph downhill and blast past many trucks even at 40tonnes but fall flat on its face on the next hill.Modern trucks will keep a steady speed uphill or down, my Fh500 does anyway at 100kph, an old truck in comparison the driver has to work the guts out of it with constant rises and dips in speed. I like something that flattens the hills out,no such thing as too much power, nothing like a big hitter, my next one will be an FH16, maybe not the 750 but ill be happy with 660…
How does a modern truck supposedly run at 100 kmh uphill or even on the flat when the thing is limited to 90 kmh max. 
While as I said even a lowly DAF 2800 running at 32t gross or less isn’t going to be much slower up the average motorway climb than that limited 500 Volvo let alone on anything like the flat when you’d be left standing at 65 mph running speeds.On that note I’ve seen journey times between Feltham and Dewsbury for example that you wouldn’t even get close to running at 90 kmh max.Not surprising bearing in mind that we’re dealing with actual power to weight ratios that are as close as makes no difference in many cases.The difference is that there were no limiters or ‘managed’ motorways with speed cameras to spoil the party.
robroy:
I realise these trucks were very much ‘of their time’ and inevitably not as good as a modern truck, but you could never call a combo of 14 litre Big Cam ■■■■■■■■ a 13 Speed Eaton Fuller, with a Rockwell axle a ‘‘mish mash’’
Blimey every one knows that a turbo ■■■■■■■ or Rolls with 9 or 13 speed Fuller running at 32-38t gross,possibly less,with no limiter was lucky to reach 50 mph max let alone the massive 56 of today and was down to 30-40 mph at every hill. 
I’d take a Guy Big-J and leave you all for dead, in my fantasy world which we all seem to be living in 
switchlogic:
I’d take a Guy Big-J and leave you all for dead, in my fantasy world which we all seem to be living in
No you wouldn’t…
You’d spend all day wondering what the third pedal was for.
CF does have a serious point. I can remember when the limiter was brought in and fleets had a mixture of limited and unlimited units. Even with low-powered units you could fly. A 190-powered artic would crawl up the motorway banks at 13mph, but then sustain 70-80mph on the flat for mile after mile. I know one thing: I did far higher mileage in low-powered lorries without speed-limiters on European work than I ever achieved afterwards. Robert
Mind you, several posters have already pointed up the advantages of the more relaxed driving style available to the modern trucker. I recall driving low-powered (by today’s standards) lorries up hill and down dale with painfully slow ascents and death-defying descents using fistfuls of constant-mesh gears. I also recall driving lorries with three-times the power and automated transmission on similar routes. SO much more relaxing and SO much less stressful; and SO much more boring and SO much less challenging… Perhaps we should stop perpetuating the generation/culture gap and let go - after all, I am retired and I expect CF is too! 
Robert
yourhavingalarf:
switchlogic:
I’d take a Guy Big-J and leave you all for dead, in my fantasy world which we all seem to be living in
No you wouldn’t…
You’d spend all day wondering what the third pedal was for.
Three pedals indeed! What is the third one for, do tell…
In the pre limiter days I could do Scotch Corner in 4.5hrs from The Wellcome Foundation plant in Dartford, that was using the M25, M11, A604, (now the A14) and A1, obviously I wasn’t sticking to speed limits, I had a light load of pharmaceuticals and a decent lorry, but I’m sure that’s around 250miles and I used to cruise at 65mph, so that kind of proves both sides of the argument. In the days of low traffic density (a 4am start meant I was one of the few lorries on the road) it was easy to average a speed close to the cruising speed, but it also proves that a lorry on top of the job (I had a 142 intercooler) can average a speed close to cruising speed. It’s a Schrodinger’s Cat kind of answer!
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You just know…
There’s gonna be questions about Schrödinger’s cat now.
It’s all nostalgia. It’s not the trucks you miss, but the job. I remember my flat top fh12 340. I loved it. Then I got a 460 xl. Would I have wanted the 340 back? Hell no. I changed jobs and got a flat top 420 4 series. It was junk compared to my Volvo. Then I got an fh13 480 ishift. Again I wouldn’t have wanted the 460 back. Same as now I have a 500, I wouldn’t want a 480 again. It’s progress. And the no limiter issue would be redundant now. You couldn’t do 70 these days without a camera or dash cam warrior catching you out. And if you drove an old truck vs a new one in identical conditions, and I’ll allow 60 as it’s the speed limit, there’s no way a 320 erf would do a hill from 60 as good as a modern truck from 56. I’m with robroy, have a go for nostalgia but I’d never want one again
newmercman:
In the pre limiter days I could do Scotch Corner in 4.5hrs from The Wellcome Foundation plant in Dartford, that was using the M25, M11, A604, (now the A14) and A1, obviously I wasn’t sticking to speed limits, I had a light load of pharmaceuticals and a decent lorry, but I’m sure that’s around 250miles and I used to cruise at 65mph, so that kind of proves both sides of the argument. In the days of low traffic density (a 4am start meant I was one of the few lorries on the road) it was easy to average a speed close to the cruising speed, but it also proves that a lorry on top of the job (I had a 142 intercooler) can average a speed close to cruising speed. It’s a Schrodinger’s Cat kind of answer!
Ironically I did a few checks of random CM road tests 80’s v present day of reasonably comparable vehicles and no surprise if it’s running legal speeds by the standards of the day,there’s virtually no difference in the average speeds on every sector all being in the 70’s kmh range. 
You can take that as gospel then CF as the tests will be comparable. Every effort is taken to eliminate variables such as traffic during road tests at CM.
They used the same Pat Kennet logarithms to even things out when you encounter traffic, or a temporary set of traffic lights etc. It was all worked out years ago on a slide rule and the back of a ■■■ packet!
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Carryfast:
Except on the hills, take a very long gradient for example the likes of which i do regularly, the modern truck takes it in its stride whereas the old Sudden Accident or ERF (examples) with whatever mish mash combination they fitted would be down to a crawl. My old F7 would do 115kph downhill and blast past many trucks even at 40tonnes but fall flat on its face on the next hill.Modern trucks will keep a steady speed uphill or down, my Fh500 does anyway at 100kph, an old truck in comparison the driver has to work the guts out of it with constant rises and dips in speed. I like something that flattens the hills out,no such thing as too much power, nothing like a big hitter, my next one will be an FH16, maybe not the 750 but ill be happy with 660…
How does a modern truck supposedly run at 100 kmh uphill or even on the flat when the thing is limited to 90kmh.
Its limited to 100kph and will pull that speed on some long gradients at 44t (remapped FH500 to approx 570hp), my old F16 470 would do the same with possibly only one split down. Big power and torque will always flatten hills.
If you have to ask how a modern truck does that i take it you havent driven one?
AndrewG:
Its limited to 100kph and will pull that speed on some long gradients at 44t (remapped FH500 to approx 570hp), my old F16 470 would do the same with possibly only one split down. Big power and torque will always flatten hills.
If you have to ask how a modern truck does that i take it you havent driven one?
I know how a 500 + hp motor would help to flatten hills in relative terms having been familiar with around 300-400 hp at 16t-24t and more than 570 at around 38t in the 1970’s/80’s which allowed for a standing re start on a 1:3 gradient.But the question remains how do you legally run a modern day truck limited to 100 kmh when the law states 90 kmh max.
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
and more than 570 at around 38t in the 1970’s/80’s which allowed for a standing re start on a 1:3 gradient.
What truck exactly had 570hp in the 70’s/80’s■■?
AndrewG:
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
and more than 570 at around 38t in the 1970’s/80’s which allowed for a standing re start on a 1:3 gradient.
What truck exactly had 570hp in the 70’s/80’s■■?
That one.
offroadvehicle.ru/AZBUCAR/Ch … finder.jpg
As always CF, you are adding no value to a thread with your rants and ravings.
Can’t wait for the Nazis, Federalists, Hitler and Mussolini to make an appearance in the next 2 or 3 pages.
Then I am sure you can find a way to mention your Jag on page 11.
You drove a truck for the local council for 3 months 25 years ago, you are totally clueless when it comes to trucks and being a professional driver.
You are a leach. You like to hang on but add no value.
wheelnutt:
You drove a truck for the local council for 3 months 25 years ago, you are totally clueless when it comes to trucks and being a professional driver.
That’s news to me bearing in mind I started on the council in 1980 and left in 1985.Followed by almost 15 years of night trunking which I went out of with a clean enough record. 
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
and more than 570 at around 38t in the 1970’s/80’s which allowed for a standing re start on a 1:3 gradient.
What truck exactly had 570hp in the 70’s/80’s■■?
That one.
offroadvehicle.ru/AZBUCAR/Ch … finder.jpg
Thats a specialist off road vehicle nothing to do with haulage and the power required from its V16 detroit 2 stroke would be for its pumps at 2000gpm…the power to move it would be secondary…
