Daf245:
OK. I’m listening please tell me the problems,
I guess the main one is that governments setting pay rates is something which only happens in command economies, e.g. the USSR.
Why would a government set pay rates for HGV drivers and not shop assistants, plumbers, motor mechanics etc etc etc?
Harry Monk:
Daf245:
OK. I’m listening please tell me the problems,I guess the main one is that governments setting pay rates is something which only happens in command economies, e.g. the USSR.
Why would a government set pay rates for HGV drivers and not shop assistants, plumbers, motor mechanics etc etc etc?
All trades you mentioned seem to get pay rises, bonuses evrey perks off job discounts,
What do we usually get. Oh pay closer to minimum wage. Getting closer evrey year, up until this year.
Still not hearing a decent argument for why government shouldn’t regulate our pay.
We have a voice as well, we just don’t go to work if they get it wrong
DCPCFML:
Let’s start with the basics :Who is paying for it ?
Who’s paying for what?
I know England had a cracking result last night, but try an make a bit sense
Chap
Harry Monk:
Daf245:
OK. I’m listening please tell me the problems,I guess the main one is that governments setting pay rates is something which only happens in command economies, e.g. the USSR.
Why would a government set pay rates for HGV drivers and not shop assistants, plumbers, motor mechanics etc etc etc?
Open to correction, but in Germany the Gov does set minimum rates for differing trades? Workers have places on company boards there too. Not so badly off are they?
In the `70s we had the JICs, setting minimum rates for drivers.
The “sacred cow” of “letting the market decide” has not served us well.
Daf245:
DCPCFML:
Let’s start with the basics :Who is paying for it ?
Who’s paying for what?
I know England had a cracking result last night, but try an make a bit sense
Chap
It’s a very simple question. Who is paying for this minimum wage you want, which would be set at such an attractive level that it would, in your words, solve the driver shortage. Clearly this minimum you want will be set higher than the current market average, so where is the money coming to fund the gap?
DCPCFML:
Daf245:
DCPCFML:
Let’s start with the basics :Who is paying for it ?
Who’s paying for what?
I know England had a cracking result last night, but try an make a bit sense
ChapIt’s a very simple question. Who is paying for this minimum wage you want, which would be set at such an attractive level that it would, in your words, solve the driver shortage. Clearly this minimum you want will be set higher than the current market average, so where is the money coming to fund the gap?
Oh no my friend I never suggested any overinflated rates.
Just a industry standard per hour.
Nice try.
As I said 6 weeks time stop the clock, where are rates at,
Just before the Christmas rush.
When things will go past intresting.
But it won’t happen because we’re just a sector that doesn’t count.
I’ve put my case for government intervention.
That’s me done.
Daf245:
DCPCFML:
Daf245:
DCPCFML:
Let’s start with the basics :Who is paying for it ?
Who’s paying for what?
I know England had a cracking result last night, but try an make a bit sense
ChapIt’s a very simple question. Who is paying for this minimum wage you want, which would be set at such an attractive level that it would, in your words, solve the driver shortage. Clearly this minimum you want will be set higher than the current market average, so where is the money coming to fund the gap?
Oh no my friend I never suggested any overinflated rates.
Just a industry standard per hour.
Nice try.
What is a “nice try” ?
OK, let me attempt to put it even simpler for you :
Did you or did you not state above that by having the government implement an “industry standard” minimum wage this would solve the driver shortage problem? Yes/no? Here is what you said :
“There’d be a steady stream of recruit to driving,
An therefore not a driver shortage.”
So, as the current market average pay rates are NOT attracting new drivers to solve the shortage that obviously means that whatever this government regulated “industry standard” minimum is that you propose, it would need to be higher than the current rates in order to stand any chance of reducing the shortage. Do you agree? Yes/no?
If the answer is yes, then I ask again, where is the money going to come from to fund these higher, regulated, minimum wage rates? Who is providing the money?
I see you edited your reply and added some more :
Daf245:
As I said 6 weeks time stop the clock, where are rates at,
Just before the Christmas rush.
When things will go past intresting.
But it won’t happen because we’re just a sector that doesn’t count.
I’ve put my case for government intervention.
That’s me done.
You haven’t put any case forward at all because there is nothing backing it. Explain to me WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM TO FUND YOUR PROPOSAL to solve the driver shortage? It’s a very simple question which for some reason you seem to be having great difficulty answering. 
DCPCFML:
You haven’t put any case forward at all because there is nothing backing it. Explain to me WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING TO FUND YOUR PROPOSAL to solve the driver shortage? It’s a very simple question which for some reason you seem to be having great difficulty answering.
He’s no different to the universal basic income loons. It’s interesting that they seem to have shut up once the government announced the furlough scheme had cost £63Bn in the first 12 months.
Conor:
DCPCFML:
You haven’t put any case forward at all because there is nothing backing it. Explain to me WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING TO FUND YOUR PROPOSAL to solve the driver shortage? It’s a very simple question which for some reason you seem to be having great difficulty answering.He’s no different to the universal basic income loons. It’s interesting that they seem to have shut up once the government announced the furlough scheme had cost £63Bn in the first 12 months.
I think they actually believe that the government has all these pots of ‘free’ money just idly sitting about that they can give to whoever they want at any time without any repercussions. I can only assume they didn’t concentrate too well in their school economics classes or maybe it’s the result of some misguided belief that money can be created out of nowhere after witnessing all the QE over the past decade. It reminds me somewhat of the recent furore over in the USA about the government wanting to introduce a $15 minimum wage for the fast-food workers and other low-income sectors. Of course, everyone a bit hard of thinking was all for it, what a great idea! It was funny how quickly they changed their tune when interviewed and asked if they’d be happy paying nearly double what they’re paying now for a Big Mac, in order to fund the $15 minimum wage. Suddenly they didn’t seem so keen on the idea. 
Next thing you know, someone will be suggesting giving payments to the unemployed, or the sick!
. What next? Payments for those too elderly to work!
Bloody nanny state looking after parasites and skivvers.
The problem with those spending other peoples money is that they don’t think too deeply about where it comes from.
Govts do not have nor do they earn any money, the only money they have is raised through various forms of taxation, its the net contributing taxpayer who foots the bill and will continue to do so for ever.
Juddian:
The problem with those spending other peoples money is that they don’t think too deeply about where it comes from.Govts do not have nor do they earn any money, the only money they have is raised through various forms of taxation, its the net contributing taxpayer who foots the bill and will continue to do so for ever.
Yes, lefties don’t understand this, as evidenced a few inches higher up this page.
Daf245:
In a very overregulated industry, and with a massive driver shortage, should the government not step in, and pass an act of Parliament to insure there is a minimum pay rate for all classes of drivers, plus days, nights, weekends,
And time and a half after 8 hours.
Double time after 10 hours
Sounds alien to most but yes we used to get paid more after 8 hours.
The national minimum wage has been used to reduce wages.
So No.
DCPCFML:
I see you edited your reply and added some more :Daf245:
As I said 6 weeks time stop the clock, where are rates at,
Just before the Christmas rush.
When things will go past intresting.
But it won’t happen because we’re just a sector that doesn’t count.
I’ve put my case for government intervention.
That’s me done.You haven’t put any case forward at all because there is nothing backing it. Explain to me WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM TO FUND YOUR PROPOSAL to solve the driver shortage? It’s a very simple question which for some reason you seem to be having great difficulty answering.
Still waiting on this, daf245.
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
Daf245:
OK. I’m listening please tell me the problems,I guess the main one is that governments setting pay rates is something which only happens in command economies, e.g. the USSR.
Why would a government set pay rates for HGV drivers and not shop assistants, plumbers, motor mechanics etc etc etc?
Open to correction, but in Germany the Gov does set minimum rates for differing trades? Workers have places on company boards there too. Not so badly off are they?
In the `70s we had the JICs, setting minimum rates for drivers.
The “sacred cow” of “letting the market decide” has not served us well.
Average German takes home 100euro less than their British counterpart don’t be fooled by gross figures Germany 4,035 gross per month net 2559, UK 3,396 gross net 2,664 figures in euros
My only concern about artificially inflated pay is that it will come to an end. We have drivers coming on the newbie forum saying “this money is life-changing”. Well, when the good times are over, these drivers are going to be telling stories in 30 years time saying how good it was back in the day. Oh hang on…
I think the likes of David Cameron fully justify their existence in their own head and criticise the poor, in the full knowledge that they have millions stashed away. I think it was Andrew Carnegie that said “a man who dies rich dies disgraced”.
It is true there is no magic money tree. The country needs low paid workers and the country needs the rich to spend. It can work in harmony so long as people are content with what they have and don’t feel the need to riot.
Juddian:
The problem with those spending other peoples money is that they don’t think too deeply about where it comes from.Govts do not have nor do they earn any money, the only money they have is raised through various forms of taxation, its the net contributing taxpayer who foots the bill and will continue to do so for ever.
They refuse to tax both the wealthy, able to migrate abroad with their money, and the Self-Employed, who claim things under “Expenses” that even we in the transport industry cannot claim, such as fuel, mileage, food, and the payroll over and above what one normally offsets vs corporation tax…
Isn’t it about time the Government actually reformed this “just in time” model that no longer works?
There is a shortage of slave labour in this country - thanks to Brexit.
As has already been said “It’s the reason we voted that way…” 
Beetlejuice:
Daf245:
In a very overregulated industry, and with a massive driver shortage, should the government not step in, and pass an act of Parliament to insure there is a minimum pay rate for all classes of drivers, plus days, nights, weekends,
And time and a half after 8 hours.
Double time after 10 hours
Sounds alien to most but yes we used to get paid more after 8 hours.The national minimum wage has been used to reduce wages.
So No.
If proper capitalist market forces had been allowed to take effect, - all those firms who moaned about paying more, and having to let people go - would go bust outright, and those fewer firms that remained - would be constantly head-hunting drivers from other firms NOT using “higher pay”, but instead "better perks, T&Cs, and other non-monetary benefits from working at their firm rather than your current one. 
Winseer:
Beetlejuice:
Daf245:
In a very overregulated industry, and with a massive driver shortage, should the government not step in, and pass an act of Parliament to insure there is a minimum pay rate for all classes of drivers, plus days, nights, weekends,
And time and a half after 8 hours.
Double time after 10 hours
Sounds alien to most but yes we used to get paid more after 8 hours.The national minimum wage has been used to reduce wages.
So No.
If proper capitalist market forces had been allowed to take effect, - all those firms who moaned about paying more, and having to let people go - would go bust outright, and those fewer firms that remained - would be constantly head-hunting drivers from other firms NOT using “higher pay”, but instead "better perks, T&Cs, and other non-monetary benefits from working at their firm rather than your current one.
WTF has that got to do with multiple firms now paying less because Blair brought in a national minimum wage!!!. Have you not seen how rates have fallen? Or are you going to blame Brexit over and over again…