I am considering learning to drive lgvs in the near future but in the mean time I have been offered a part time job which includes driving a “courtesy” minibus to and from a long stay airport car park. I only have my D1 on my ordinary car licence. The chap says because it’s a “courtesy” bus and I am not driving it for “personal gain” it’s OK. But I am worried that if I do have an accident on the 3/4 mile trip to the airport and I only have a D1 and not a D there could be be some legal problems.
Well it depends if its public or private roads.
D is coach, D1 is mini bus.
You cannot use a grand father right D1 for “hire or reward” which basically means if you are getting paid you cannot do it.
it’s a grey area 
D1 with restriction 101 means you can drive a minibus with between 9 and 16 seats not for hire or reward
the chap offering you the job will argue that a courtesy bus is not for hire or reward , so you can drive it
my local county council owned school minibuses argue the same as they don’t charge the kids - just provide transport as a service
sockpuppet:
You cannot use a grand father right D1 for “hire or reward” which basically means if you are getting paid you cannot do it.
I think it’s the bus that should be “not for hire or reward” rather than the driver
Check that they have the relevant exemption - read it yourself - and that you are being paid directly by the owners of the minibus - not a third party (agency etc)
I looked into this minibus D1 situation about 2 years ago when offered a job by an agency to drive for the council who had an exemption as they were transporting the elderly free of charge to various venues. I was covered if I was employed by the council but not if I was employed by an agency or third party.
ROG:
I was covered if I was employed by the council but not if I was employed by an agency or third party.
Are you sure about this? AFAIK unless you’re driving for free you’re not exempt, regardless of who employs you. I’m not 100% sure though.
mrpj:
ROG:
I was covered if I was employed by the council but not if I was employed by an agency or third party.Are you sure about this? AFAIK unless you’re driving for free you’re not exempt, regardless of who employs you. I’m not 100% sure though.
POSITIVE
tugman:
I am considering learning to drive lgvs in the near future but in the mean time I have been offered a part time job which includes driving a “courtesy” minibus to and from a long stay airport car park. I only have my D1 on my ordinary car licence. The chap says because it’s a “courtesy” bus and I am not driving it for “personal gain” it’s OK. But I am worried that if I do have an accident on the 3/4 mile trip to the airport and I only have a D1 and not a D there could be be some legal problems.
Having attended a day’s course on the legalities of minibus operation, I can give you a reasonably good summary.
A standard car license gives you D1 (101), where the 101 means “Not for Hire or Reward”.
The definition of “Hire or Reward” has nothing to do with whether the driver is getting a salary.
In the case of buses (and minibuses), “Hire or Reward” is defined as “where a consideration (legal term for “payment”, either in cash or in kind) is made in return for a person’s right to be carried”.
i.e. if someone is paying for the right to be carried on the bus (whether they exercise that right or not), then it is deemed as “hire or reward”.
The people who are paying for parking are all paying a small amount for the right to be carried. Therefore, this is most definitely a “hire or reward” situation, and not only does the driver need a full D1 category entitlement, but the company also needs a PCV O-license.
There are specific exemptions where services which appear to be “hire or reward” can be exempted from both the driving license and O-license requirements by getting a “Section 19 Small Bus Permit” (I have one for the office social club), but this is not one of those cases.
For local authorities, they have a specific exemption.
Whilst they may be getting away with it, it is most definitely illegal, and as you said, if there is an accident, and the insurance man is clued up on the law, you could find yourself in some very hot water.
Of course, if the “minibus” has 8 passenger seats or less, then it’s an entirely different situation.
MrFlibble:
tugman:
I am considering learning to drive lgvs in the near future but in the mean time I have been offered a part time job which includes driving a “courtesy” minibus to and from a long stay airport car park. I only have my D1 on my ordinary car licence. The chap says because it’s a “courtesy” bus and I am not driving it for “personal gain” it’s OK. But I am worried that if I do have an accident on the 3/4 mile trip to the airport and I only have a D1 and not a D there could be be some legal problems.Having attended a day’s course on the legalities of minibus operation, I can give you a reasonably good summary.
A standard car license gives you D1 (101), where the 101 means “Not for Hire or Reward”.
The definition of “Hire or Reward” has nothing to do with whether the driver is getting a salary.
In the case of buses (and minibuses), “Hire or Reward” is defined as “where a consideration (legal term for “payment”, either in cash or in kind) is made in return for a person’s right to be carried”.
i.e. if someone is paying for the right to be carried on the bus (whether they exercise that right or not), then it is deemed as “hire or reward”.
The people who are paying for parking are all paying a small amount for the right to be carried. Therefore, this is most definitely a “hire or reward” situation, and not only does the driver need a full D1 category entitlement, but the company also needs a PCV O-license.
There are specific exemptions where services which appear to be “hire or reward” can be exempted from both the driving license and O-license requirements by getting a “Section 19 Small Bus Permit” (I have one for the office social club), but this is not one of those cases.
For local authorities, they have a specific exemption.
Whilst they may be getting away with it, it is most definitely illegal, and as you said, if there is an accident, and the insurance man is clued up on the law, you could find yourself in some very hot water.
Of course, if the “minibus” has 8 passenger seats or less, then it’s an entirely different situation.
A number of companies get round the “not for hire or reward” situation by advertising free travelling on a “courtesy minibus” Of course, they are paying by means indirect, but as long as they are not officially paying, then it’s very hard to prove that they are fare paying passengers.
At the same time, such companies hire their drivers to do “some other job”, i.e driving minibuses isn’t their primary function according to their job description. This once again makes the situation very difficult to police effectively, as they aren’t really employed to drive D1 vehicles.
Also, it’s worth pointing out that holders of B licences acquired after a test pass in 1997 can also drive D1 vehicles providing the following conditions are met, even though they don’t have D1 entitlement on their licences:- 1. They have held their full licence for at least 2 years. 2. The only payment they can receive is out of pocket expenses (voluntary basis) 3. The vehicle is driven for social purposes only 4. They are not allowed to tow any trailer 5. The MAM of the minibus must not exceed 3.5T (extended to MAM of 4.25T if equipment for disabled passengers is fitted).
Once again, there are any number of ways to stretch the bounds of such regulations.
SuperLez:
A number of companies get round the “not for hire or reward” situation by advertising free travelling on a “courtesy minibus” Of course, they are paying by means indirect, but as long as they are not officially paying, then it’s very hard to prove that they are fare paying passengers.
But they can’t do that, there’s still paying indirect and it’s quite easy to prove.
Companies don’t so much get round it, as be completely oblivious to their legal obligations.
To avoid confusion and to cover yourself - why not borrow the mini bus and book yourself a driving test in it.
May be a bit long winded with the theory and everything but at least it will be cheaper than a fine and possibly a loss of licence.
MrFlibble:
tugman:
I am considering learning to drive lgvs in the near future but in the mean time I have been offered a part time job which includes driving a “courtesy” minibus to and from a long stay airport car park. I only have my D1 on my ordinary car licence. The chap says because it’s a “courtesy” bus and I am not driving it for “personal gain” it’s OK. But I am worried that if I do have an accident on the 3/4 mile trip to the airport and I only have a D1 and not a D there could be be some legal problems.Having attended a day’s course on the legalities of minibus operation, I can give you a reasonably good summary.
A standard car license gives you D1 (101), where the 101 means “Not for Hire or Reward”.
The definition of “Hire or Reward” has nothing to do with whether the driver is getting a salary.
In the case of buses (and minibuses), “Hire or Reward” is defined as “where a consideration (legal term for “payment”, either in cash or in kind) is made in return for a person’s right to be carried”.
i.e. if someone is paying for the right to be carried on the bus (whether they exercise that right or not), then it is deemed as “hire or reward”.
The people who are paying for parking are all paying a small amount for the right to be carried. Therefore, this is most definitely a “hire or reward” situation, and not only does the driver need a full D1 category entitlement, but the company also needs a PCV O-license.
There are specific exemptions where services which appear to be “hire or reward” can be exempted from both the driving license and O-license requirements by getting a “Section 19 Small Bus Permit” (I have one for the office social club), but this is not one of those cases.
For local authorities, they have a specific exemption.
Whilst they may be getting away with it, it is most definitely illegal, and as you said, if there is an accident, and the insurance man is clued up on the law, you could find yourself in some very hot water.
Of course, if the “minibus” has 8 passenger seats or less, then it’s an entirely different situation.
MrFibble is 100% CORRECT!!! if you have a 101 restriction don’t touch the bloody thing! That operator is taking the mickey and would happily risk YOUR licence! If the mini buses are running without a blue ops disc then he needs reporting! I worked for a major airport’s car parks section for eight years and there are no grey areas. The words ‘free bus service’ is nonense. Don’t risk your licence before you even get to do the training for the LGV licence.
CW
I have e-mailed my MP with this…
Please could you ask the relevant MP for a definitve answer to
this problem as DVLA, DSA & VOSA do not have one!!
I have D1 on my licence with a 101 code restriction which means
that I cannot drive it for Hire or Reward.
I can drive it as a volunteer (unpaid), for my personal use or
on a section 19 clause - that is clear.
If I in paid employment by company ‘A’ can I drive company ‘A’
staff around in it??
If I am paid employment by company ‘B’ can I drive company ‘A’
staff around in it if they are not paying company ‘B’ ■■
It is the definition of ‘Hire or Reward’ that may be the crux
of this !!
The reply might take a while but I will get one 
Agree with MrFibble.
In this case of driving a courtesy minibus. It’s most definitely hire or reward. (Fact and not MMTM )
VOSA would be interested…and the “chap” is talking out of his hole!
(The other thread is different Rog, as it’s “employee transport” which appears to be a slightly different kettle of fish.)
Then again, most pre-97 licences have the 101 restriction on their C1 (7.5t) entitlements, no-one ever took any notice of that. How many 7.5 tonners are being driven on pre-97 car tickets? Plenty at a guess, Heck, it even confused the coppers for a while.
allikat wrote:-
Then again, most pre-97 licences have the 101 restriction on their C1 (7.5t) entitlements, no-one ever took any notice of that. How many 7.5 tonners are being driven on pre-97 car tickets? Plenty at a guess, Heck, it even confused the coppers for a while.
The restriction on a C1 licence is with regard to trailer size( C1E 107 - not more than 8250kg), not to do with ‘hire & reward’. There is actually no restriction on a C1.
There is a restriction either coming in shortly or in now restricting pre 1997 licence holders from being able to accompany learners of C1 vehicles.
Smart Mart:
There is a restriction either coming in shortly or in now restricting pre 1997 licence holders from being able to accompany learners of C1 vehicles.
My boss asked me if I could train a D1 provisional licence holder as I have a D1 (with 101 restriction) but I pointed out that I cannot as the D1 is now a PCV course and I do not have a PCV licence.
Rog wrote:-
My boss asked me if I could train a D1 provisional licence holder as I have a D1 (with 101 restriction) but I pointed out that I cannot as the D1 is now a PCV course and I do not have a PCV licence
Quite so Rog, I have a DE anyway, so have done a few minibuses (not my favourite, cos they are all ‘good drivers’).
Smart Mart:
Rog wrote:-
My boss asked me if I could train a D1 provisional licence holder as I have a D1 (with 101 restriction) but I pointed out that I cannot as the D1 is now a PCV course and I do not have a PCV licence
Quite so Rog, I have a DE anyway, so have done a few minibuses (not my favourite, cos they are all ‘good drivers’).
A point i’m not sure on - can a B driver go for D1+E or do they have to do D1 first 
If you wish to tow a heavy trailer you must first pass a test in the associated rigid vehicle. Learner drivers in categories B, C1, D1, D cannot tow a trailer of any size.
Smart Mart:
If you wish to tow a heavy trailer you must first pass a test in the associated rigid vehicle. Learner drivers in categories B, C1, D1, D cannot tow a trailer of any size.
thank you