I’m hoping to move from a 5000kg GVW draw bar trailer to a urban mini artic combination to haul a 4000Kg boat.
I’m now familiar with the ‘D’ factor in order to get the trailer weight distribution theoretically correct, but before I start contacting in earnest perhaps someone familiar with the Regs governing design could help with my confusion.
I think I understand that in the ideal world the pin should bear 1/5 (wheel) of the trailers GVW, and laden or unladen. e.g. 1/5 of 5T leaving 4T on rear trailer axles. I don’t know but perhaps HGV combinations have means by which load weight distribution is measured, before departure!
However, because I plan initially on using the smallest tractor I am mindful of the limitations of the design/plated weight of the rear tractor axle.
I have never seen anything in black and white to reassure me that with max. limits in mind poor pin weight distribution is an offence. Does anyone know for sure please?
Ok probably been done before, but I’ve got a load that’s 27’ long and weighs in at 4.5 tonnes. I want a mini artic to move it, but DVLA seems to have very little information as to the legalities of an 8.25 T artic, or whether the 12 Tonne limit still applies to a mini artic. Anyone have good information on the legalities of mini artics, or any links to pages which have the info
Thanks
bobobolinsky:
Ok probably been done before, but I’ve got a load that’s 27’ long and weighs in at 4.5 tonnes. I want a mini artic to move it, but DVLA seems to have very little information as to the legalities of an 8.25 T artic, or whether the 12 Tonne limit still applies to a mini artic. Anyone have good information on the legalities of mini artics, or any links to pages which have the info
Thanks
Can you understand German?
fahrzeugbau-pagenkopf.de/Minisattel.htm
or give King Trailers a ring.
To be honest I think a normal 45 foot artic would be the cheapest option if it is only a one off
Most of the mini-artics I’ve seen are specialist trailers, mostly display units.
I’d agree with Wheelnut, a standard artic would be cheaper for a one-off delivery job.
What exactly is the load?
I’ve seen wood or metal that length carried on a rigid flatbed at an angle that takes it over the cab and has an overhang at both ends
Why has it got to go on an artic?? You can put it on a rigid and have an overhang out the back doors if need be.
An 18 tonne flat bed would do the trick.
It’s a boat, it’s not meant to be a one off, If I want to transport it across country or store it, it will be on the trailer. With the changes in maximum vehicle trailer weights, I can no longer use a drawbar trailer. The use of a mini artic brings the road tax down to £165 per year. I can use the tractor unit for other things. Lifting the boat on and off the trailer has since Elfen Safety got involved, become very expensive as crane companies cannot regard the lifts as common practice and we need a survey and riggers, it brings a simple lift the boat off the trailer at the farm to nearly £500. It’s not a problem at a boat yard where cranes are considered to be doing a common operation. My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E. Most hauliers want a £1000 a time to move it. Don Bur manufacture mini artic trailers, as do Lynton’s. I was looking at something like an Iveco, or even converting a 7.5t fridge unit or tipper, as they already have very short chassis’s. Or even down rating an urban/dray unit, with a Carlesburg single axle trailer It’s all the legalities of it that I don’t like, the mini artics are such hens teeth, but in this day and age of high fuel costs and taxation, they start to make excellent sense, even against a 7.5 tonne wagon. I don’t think it’s any different to DHL/Argos using swap bodies.
bobobolinsky:
It’s a boat, it’s not meant to be a one off, If I want to transport it across country or store it, it will be on the trailer. With the changes in maximum vehicle trailer weights, I can no longer use a drawbar trailer. The use of a mini artic brings the road tax down to £165 per year. I can use the tractor unit for other things. Lifting the boat on and off the trailer has since Elfen Safety got involved, become very expensive as crane companies cannot regard the lifts as common practice and we need a survey and riggers, it brings a simple lift the boat off the trailer at the farm to nearly £500. It’s not a problem at a boat yard where cranes are considered to be doing a common operation. My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E. Most hauliers want a £1000 a time to move it. Don Bur manufacture mini artic trailers, as do Lynton’s. I was looking at something like an Iveco, or even converting a 7.5t fridge unit or tipper, as they already have very short chassis’s. Or even down rating an urban/dray unit, with a Carlesburg single axle trailer It’s all the legalities of it that I don’t like, the mini artics are such hens teeth, but in this day and age of high fuel costs and taxation, they start to make excellent sense, even against a 7.5 tonne wagon. I don’t think it’s any different to DHL/Argos using swap bodies.
Sorry. I read your post completely wrong. I thought you wanted a piece of timber delivering 
Like I mentioned before; Maybe these links will help you.
If your boat weighs 4.5 tonnes, that leaves you 3.5 tonnes for the rig; I’d allow the other 250kg for driver, passenger and ancillary stuff.
I think you’re cutting it a wee bit fine there. You won’t get much change out of 3 tonnes for a modern 7.5 tonne chassis-cab such as a DAF LF or Iveco 75-15. That only leaves you half a tonne for the trailer. You might just sneak it in but I don’t think you’ll be carrying much auxiliary kit.
Even with an aluminium chassis trailer, I am reckoning on 1.5 tonne tare, there are indespension units available, ala Lyntons, but I wanted to go reasonable running gear. Live axle on air with 4 off 225 x 65 x 17.5 tyres running on alcoa alloy rims to save weight. Tare weight iro of an Iveco Daily is 2250Kg so it would be right on the limit. Last time I weighed the boat it came out at just over 4.0 tonnes, but I have added some equipment and stores since then, so you are right, it is going to be right on the limit, hence the question about 12 tonne gross, though I have never actually known anyone to go through that test.
bobobolinsky:
…My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E…
Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, but if your son’s got C1E restricted to 8.25t, then said trailer can’t be over 750kg max.
nickb67:
bobobolinsky:
…My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E…Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, but if your son’s got C1E restricted to 8.25t, then said trailer can’t be over 750kg max.
This may interest you.
The Dutch are like Texans, and always have to go one better 
I’d suggest that it might be worth your while to put yourself, or your son, through a C&E course, then buy a second-hand urban artic unit; you could either have a bespoke trailer made or convert something to suit.
Cost-wise it may work out similar, if not cheaper than, a 7.5 tonner, bearing in mind Nick’s comments which I’d tend to agree with. You’d be unlikely to need anything more than a restricted o-licence, and of course you’d also have the makings of a boat-hauling business if you were so inclined. Plus you or your lad has the licence if it’s ever needed. It would also give you scope to manoeuvre if you ever bought a bigger boat yourself.
nickb67:
bobobolinsky:
…My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E…Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, but if your son’s got C1E restricted to 8.25t, then said trailer can’t be over 750kg max.
Would that not only be the case where the drawing vehicle is plated to 7.5t?
This is the case for my LF and is the reason I need to get a 12t C1E.
Not sure what the mini artic tractors would typically be plated to.
Ian G:
nickb67:
bobobolinsky:
…My son only has a C1E 8.25t licence, so it makes sense, for him to drive it the odd times and no sense for him to get C+E…Forgive me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, but if your son’s got C1E restricted to 8.25t, then said trailer can’t be over 750kg max.
Would that not only be the case where the drawing vehicle is plated to 7.5t?
This is the case for my LF and is the reason I need to get a 12t C1E.
Not sure what the mini artic tractors would typically be plated to.
direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr … DG_4022547
Example of category C1+E: A vehicle with an unladen weight of 6,000 kg and a maximum weight of 7,500 kg pulling a fully loaded trailer with a weight of 4,500 kg — total weight 12,000 kg
.
Does that mean a mini artic driven on a C1E licence would need to be plated for a max train weight of 12 tonnes and would also need to weigh less than 7.5 tonnes unladen to carry 4.5 tonnes?
Is that possible?
Reading into that, Rog, the optimum combination would be a unit weighing 6.1 tonnes towing a trailer weighing 5.9 tonnes laden. That has the advantage of giving far more choice where units are concerned, since you’d be able to buy something “off the peg” rather than having a conversion done; one of the rare instances that a heavier unit is actually preferable.
Given the parameters our friend has offered (4 tonne boat, 1.5 tonne trailer) this leaves nearly half a tonne spare for ancillaries.
Somewhat ironic that this is perfectly legal on a car licence, for those who passed their tests before 1997.
However… since the said “off-the-peg” unit would by definition be an HGV, at least in its previous life, how would you go about making it legal for the C1+E, or am I missing something here?
Don’t forget in this case the driver in question has a grandfather rights C1E and therefore the 107 endorsement, 8250kg train as opposed to a 12000kg if a separate test is taken.