Ther is a link on Toprun where two old drivers have gone back to Tahir to see what has happened to it .
www.toprun.ch
Save theTahir
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Ask them what side the oil pipeline is on when you are heading to the Gulf on the TAPLine.
And what the name of the Syrian agent was at Derraa border.
GS
Who remembers “Little Willy”,the ex army Scammell wrecker that some enterprising lads drove out to Eastern Turkey and operated from a garage somewhere near to Tahir,that long ago I’ve forgotten exactly where,but I did take this pic as I passed the garage on my way to Teheran.
Atki Borderer,beyond recovery.
Scammel Crusader.On this trip to Teheran in 1976,I shipped out of Harwich to Hamburg,and there were 3 brand new rigs,Scammell Crusaders,on the boat with me,drivers full of enthusiasm.When we left Hamburg,as usual you make your own way whilst in Europe,usually opting to travel with someone when somewhere remote.
I saw two of these Scammells written off in separate accidents in Yugoslavia,this one was the last,didn’t quite get as far as Tahir. If you look at the tyre marks on the road,I think the driver ran out of Ferodo and put it up the bank!
Having three new rigs written off on their first trip is no wonder I never saw the firm again!
Talkig of scroates, I parked up on waste ground in Halifax city centre a few years ago. It was the depth of winter & at about 2300 there was a knock on the door & a driver of an old Leyland van asked me if I knew any place to stay. He was from the Isle of Man & had left the ferry that morning been down South & was now exhausted. I gave him my spare sleeping bag & told him to kip in the van. In the morning he was gone along with my sleeping bag.
Linux-user:
ask them how to spell the name of the beer that was drunk in copious quantitys in Istanbul Very Happy Very Happy
That’s if they can remember how to spell Razz
And ask them which paper was important after tipping in Turkey
Cheers for the info will try that, although they all avoid me now maybe i need to change to Lynx
The turkish beer was EFFES and when you’d drunk enough it was effes control.
The most impotant paper was the triptik plus your police paper,because when you tipped turkey you didn’t need to pay road tax,or when I remeber you also did not need to compulsory change money,plus of course your cmr
The beer was EFES and the most important piece of paper was the BOS paper, because it was a long way back from Kapikule to Istanbul or Ankara
Hello again Ian,
Little Willie is or was parked at the garage/cafe just as you were leaving Eleskirt the other side of Tahir.
All the best paul
GS OVERLAND:
Ask them what side the oil pipeline is on when you are heading to the Gulf on the TAPLine.
And what the name of the Syrian agent was at Derraa border.
GS
I never saw any pipe line only oil drums every km or so, as for the agent, I can not remember his name, but when we were on the return trip to outside mecca, we was chased by to agents on scooters, when we stopped, they told us they wanted our wagon for diplomats furnature out of beiruit, that was he year war broke out with the christians 1976, we picked it up from a warehouse in damascus and took it to one near bow in london. sandman norman
Norman Ingram:
GS OVERLAND:
Ask them what side the oil pipeline is on when you are heading to the Gulf on the TAPLine.
And what the name of the Syrian agent was at Derraa border.
GSI never saw any pipe line only oil drums every km or so, as for the agent, I can not remember his name, but when we were on the return trip to outside mecca, we was chased by to agents on scooters, when we stopped, they told us they wanted our wagon for diplomats furnature out of beiruit, that was he year war broke out with the christians 1976, we picked it up from a warehouse in damascus and took it to one near bow in london. sandman norman
Norman,
I think you are confusing the H4 to Turaif desert crossing with the Tapline.
The oil drums were across the desert stretch,(why did they start out of sight of H4 and you had to find the first one?).
The Tapline was on your right as you travelled down towards the “Mirrors” and Dammam,and apart from a few stort stretches where it went underground was always there.One thing to remember,NEVER park up for a brew or especially the night on the pipeline side of the road unless you want a reminder from the police who would turn up in a GMC pickup truck with a ■■■■■■■ big machine gun mounted on the back to find out what you had in mind.
bestbooties:
Norman Ingram:
GS OVERLAND:
Ask them what side the oil pipeline is on when you are heading to the Gulf on the TAPLine.
And what the name of the Syrian agent was at Derraa border.
GSI never saw any pipe line only oil drums every km or so, as for the agent, I can not remember his name, but when we were on the return trip to outside mecca, we was chased by to agents on scooters, when we stopped, they told us they wanted our wagon for diplomats furnature out of beiruit, that was he year war broke out with the christians 1976, we picked it up from a warehouse in damascus and took it to one near bow in london. sandman norman
well I did say I’m going senile, ha ha ha, but at 71 my memory is not too bad
Norman,
I think you are confusing the H4 to Turaif desert crossing with the Tapline.
The oil drums were across the desert stretch,(why did they start out of sight of H4 and you had to find the first one?).
The Tapline was on your right as you travelled down towards the “Mirrors” and Dammam,and apart from a few stort stretches where it went underground was always there.One thing to remember,NEVER park up for a brew or especially the night on the pipeline side of the road unless you want a reminder from the police who would turn up in a GMC pickup truck with a [zb] big machine gun mounted on the back to find out what you had in mind.
I was on my way to Ahwaz in the persian gulf…once i had my compulsory 2 day rest at the Londra (in the hotel) i set off with a couple of other drivers…however once we got to ankara the road split…i took the left split and headed for Erzerum-Ercincan…the roads were terrible along the ho-chi-min-trail as we called it…and often you could hear the sound of gunshots in the distance as the locals took potshots at our trailers…and maybe the drivers…and perhaps i was one of the lucky ones…although i never heard of a driver being shot…the little kids would however show you a brick in one hand…whilst gesturing with the other hand asking for something to eat…often sweets…i always carried a bag beside me for this purpose…after all its cheaper than the hassle of finding and replacing a windscreen…well a day or so after leaving Ankara i stumbled across a casualty…it was a trailer parked on the other side of the road precariously…leaning very very to one side…the tractor unit was still attached…and seeing as it was an englishman i decided to stay…the driver was no where to be seen…but there was a turkish army soldier standing guard…there was a fire burning with the trailer boards…thick snow was all around and the temperature was below zero…about 20 degrees to be exact…i went and spoke to the young soldier…who actually spoke a bit of english…he told me the driver would be back in a couple of hours…i made a coffee and offered him one as well …he was very grateful too…sure enough the driver returned after about 4 hours…with a machine on a low loader…the machine was going to be used to steady the trailer whilst the tractor and trailer was being pulled by another machine out of its predicament…it turns out that the driver was looking for somewhere to park…and seeing the nice even parking space…albeit covered with snow.decided this was a good spot…wrong…but it was too late…this company was Simon International from wapping in london…the trailers were always loaded top heavy…and grossing 40 tons on a spread axle tandem trailer…however it wasnt painted in the normal simon paint job. blue and white .he had such a mixed fleet because he needed every unit and trailer he could lay his hands on in order to fulfill the contract with british leyland…i thought the operation to recover the outfit was going reasonably well…but then…the trailer went over…ripping the fifth wheel from its mountings…luckily…at least the driver had his home in one piece…its funny how we always offer advice after the event has happened…and this was no exception…why didnt they pull it out backwardsfor example…i left the next day with the driver having to sort out the mess…a crane would be coming to off load the trailer…righting it…and sorting out the mechanics and customs etc…and i bid him farewell…a days driving saw me parking close to Tahir…a mountain thats had more fatalities than ive had hot dinners..the turks drive in a kamikaze style with allahto protect them..i decided to never attempt the drive over this mountain at night..so i parked in a sensible spot..cooked my meal..and got the beers out..i watched as the grader drivers (snow ploughs) tried to clear the huge snowfalls out of the way..but it still left a very dangerous surface..they rarely used any salt..too expensive..but at least we had snow chains..well most of us anyway..10am the next day saw me heading towards the first slope of this mountain..my snow chains had been checked for tightness beforehand.and off i set..often being met by crazy turk drivers in their rigs coming straight for me..expecting me to move..they would also have the same disregard on their way up the mountain and cutting in at the last minute..you could see over the edge of the mountain where drivers have misjudged and the wrecks strewn all over the place..some with their lights still visible where this has happened overnight..as i neared the top i saw a pair oflong vehicle signs in the distance…as i approached i could see he had slipped into the gulley at the side of the mountain…i also noticed the lack of snow chains…however i wasnt gonna stop here…and as i was almost at the top decided to pull into a service area…where i dropped my trailer and ran back down to where he was unit only…with me pulling.and a snow plough pushing…we got him out…and then i picked up his trailer and returned to the service area…this was merely a stop for the many turk buses that plied this route…after connecting up to our trailers again…we made lunch…well i did…for this driver must have been living on sandwiches…for he had no cooking equipment except what they call a turkish bomb…but no pots or pans…well as i talked to him further…turned out he never had a licence either…but was merely offered the job because of the money offered…and through reccommendation from a friend of his…also on the firm…we eventually started the long climb down…until we eventually reached a straight bit of road…and yet another simon international truck at the side of the road…again with no snow chains…and an inexperienced driver too…i started to shout at these pair of idiots and asked them if they thought this was a game…why hadnt they bought any snow chains…this second driver said he`d been there all night…and although he had offered the grader driver his newly bought radio/cassette player…the grader never returned…but gained a nice stereo system…normal practice in turkey…we eventually all set off together in the direction of the Turk/Iran border…we parked for the night…cooked a meal for three…with what equipment we had…and i awoke the next morning…to find the other two drivers gone…along with all my cooking equipment…which we had left on the diesel tank for washing the next morning…this is why whenever i eat anything now…i always wash and store immediately afterwards…as they say once bitten…twice shy…but goes to show what lengths a driver will go to after being given assistance…i had to buy a new cooker…pots etc…but on my return to london i visited the company depot where i was re-imbursed not only for the utensils…but for my help in getting his trucks out of trouble…and he offered me a job anytime i wanted…this mountain…had a very easy route around it…whereby instead of climbing over the mountain…you could drive around it…but it was a military road…and civilians were not allowed to use it…something to do with the russian territory being close by…i would like to travel this route again.to see if there are any improvements…but would have to be a summer job…maybe with the war almost over in Iraq…there could very well be a trade route overland opening up again…who knows…i eventually arrived at my destination where the weather was nice and warm…where camels roamed freely…and the trailer was unloaded by poor people…with a harness attached to their backs…sometimes it would take 2 people to lift a huge box onto this one mans back…and he would walk down the ramp they had put in place from the trailer floor to the ground…often i would load hazel nuts from a town called Ordu…and the destination was the mars factory in slough…these huge sacks of nuts would be loaded in the same way…and it would often take 3 people to lift a sack onto one mans back…thank god i never had to load or unload at either end…but got a free goodybag of mars products anyway…well worth the long journey home 
Excellent story truckyboy
ta once again your written words have brought the storys that you have
partaken of here to me in my front room, thanks again truckboy.
Great read Truckboy many thanks.
I wouldnt mind having a go if the trade route overland ever did open up again, then again these days the office would only be on the phone every five mins to see what time you`ll be back.
The Tahir Pass in Eastern Turkey must be one of the worst stretches of road I’ve driven over. Truckyboy has not mentioned that it was a dirt road and at the top is over 8100 feet up and depending on the time of year and the weather it used to be either mud, snow or dust and there was no good time to go over it.
Between 1968 and '77 I drove Overland buses over this pass on trips from London to India and Nepal and back. I once drove over the Tahir at night in the summer of '71 and vowed never to that again, the dust from other vehicles, in the headlights was blinding. I’ve done it in snow with chains on and without.
The photo below shows the AEC bus I was driving just after I went off the road after a oncoming local truck refused to get off the centre of the road. This was early October 1971 and the first snow was melting on top of mud. The crowd on the left were my passengers. Later I realised that I had been extremely tired having driven every day since leaving Delhi about three weeks before. I took it easy going to Istanbul where we stopped for a few days and had the bus cleaned and serviced. This used to be done in Teheran and New Delhi as well. The last place to have that done was in London, the cost was too high and the quality of work questionable. Aydin in Istanbul was an excellent mechanic, another guy, a Eurasian called Lee, in Lahore, Pakistan was also good.
Turkish drivers just ignored us, roaring past blaring the air horns. Eventually an English 4WD Bedford arrived and dragged the AEC back on the road with a steel cable, no damage just a bit heavier with mud. I thanked the Bedford driver with a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black Label whisky which I released from the stache carried for smoothing out sensitive or difficult situations in Asia. In the background is an Asian Transport Scania 140 drawbar outfit which turned up as well. This was driven by a Mr. Snow who also offered assistance, he was on his way to Iran. I’m sure he thought he should have got a bottle as well since he had stopped. Last I saw him was at the Yugo-Austro border going the other way away four years later.
Another hundred yards or so and I would have reached the tarmac, the worst part of the journey was behind and the altitude was down to about 6200 feet and not far from Horasan. A few miles further back and it would have been yet another Tahir Pass incident with thirty-odd people dead.
Some people called the Tahir the “Mud Mountain”, I suppose the Erzerum to Agri road over the Tahir Pass still is in use, the fact that the military road was never far away was ridiculous. I’ve driven over higher passes in Kashmir and Nepal but that Tahir was a bleak desolate place in a troubled part of the world and it seemed to bring out the worst in Turkish drivers, the Mercedes and Setra bus drivers were suicidal kapitans of their vehicles. They all appeared to be moustached with gold teeth and cigarette as they hurled buses aound blind bends and down mountains. Turkish truck drivers weren’t much better. Whether it is now a tarmac road I don’t know - perhaps someone here has been there recently.
That sounds like one hell of a coach holiday Sheeter, great picture keep em coming.
Sheeter:
Between 1968 and '77 I drove Overland buses over this pass on trips from London to India and Nepal and back. I once drove over the Tahir at night in the summer of '71 and vowed never to that again, the dust from other vehicles, in the headlights was blinding. I’ve done it in snow with chains on and without..
Dave,
Great post and unfortunately typical photo. Was that bus one of John & Bob Fenwicks? If so, they didn’t improve much since I drove for them in the late 60s.
Guess what? I have just found your pm to me from September last year just before I had all my technical problems. Fortunately I had printed it off to reply to later so it didn’t disappear with everything else. Will go through it tonight or tomorrow and reply. I had forgotten how closely our experiences coincided.
Salut, David.
-
nianiamh,
These people weren’t on any coach holiday, they were travelling from India, in this case, to various other places between India and Europe. The passengers on the outbound trip from London all had one-way tickets as they were usually going to Australia or Southeast Asia overland rather than flying and seeing nothing.
On arrival in Delhi I had to round up return passengers by putting notices up in the hostels and cheap hotels as well as parking the bus where it could be seen - it was sign-written “London - India” on the sides. The year of the photo I was charging £40 or US$100, cash only, for travel from Delhi to London, proportionally less for anywhere in between. Without this I wouldn’t have got far, the owners never gave out much running money. Today these fares seem absurd but inflation and exchange rates have changed. -
David,
Yes, the AEC was owned by the Fenwick brothers, who ran the Safaris overland bus firm. It had the AH-470 underslung engine and had a craving for head gaskets. -
Truckyboy,
Sorry to divert from your thread but the mere mention of the Tahir Pass brought it all back.
Great pics and story Sheeter
Sheeter…a great read…if i didnt know better…the truck in the background is in astran colours…lets have some more stories…im feeling guilty with writing so much..be calling it truckys page next..so all of you get writing.. and aydin was a great mechanic..used to do all our servicing as well..and i used to get a service in the two brothels across the road from the londra..one was called the west berlin..where reputedly a turk mafia boss was buried under the front steps..shot..and the other i cant remember the name..but fond memories..rumour has it that women who broke the law in turkey ..were often punished by serving part of their sentence as a prostitute in these brothels..including pig alley`…and they were too…but thats another story…