Meadows engines were fitted in Guy trucks ,is there anyone out there with any comments , experience etc of these engines . ?
Well I know an old driver who drove an S Type Bedford 4 wheeler in the late 50s for a Morpeth Haulier called Ozie Elliott, It had the 4 cylinder version in it & it used to pull like a train, I haven’t seen him for donkeys years but it if I do I will certainly ask him, He was also a fitter at one time , Regards Larry.
This is the site of the former Meadows engine factory on Cannock rd Wolverhampton which backed on to Guy motors in Park lane.
I only remember the big thirsty petrol engines they produced and don’t know much about the diesel engines.
maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll … 51.52,0,0
And the old Guy motors factory,
Evening all, shugg, let me get my aged little grey cells into gear, and remember yet another sadly departed piece of Wolverhamptons motoring heritage. Perhaps some background would help…
The company of Henry Meadows Engineering was created in April 1919, allegedly within the Little Swan Public House, at Horsley Fields Wolverhampton. Then an area of intense manufacturing, and terraced housing, (now a concrete high rise estate of dubious repute). The intention was to manufacture gearboxes to be supplied to the vibrant Wolverhampton and Birmingham motor manufacturers. The founders Henry Meadows, and Sydney Ellard, (founder of another long gone manufacturing company on the Wednesfield/Willenhall border)
Henry Meadows had worked for Clyno cars, and Harper Bean motor manufacturers. A factory was established on ground adjacent to Park Lane Fallings Park. This would quickly grow to over 14acres in size.
By 1920 Harper Bean owned Vulcan lorries were taking Meadows 3 speed gearboxes. 1921 John Dorman, of the Stafford based Dorman engine manufacturing company joined the Board. At the 1922 Olympia Show, Meadows showed the 1.2 litre 4 cylinder car engine. Within 5 years Meadows were supplying 4 and 6 cylinder engines to Lagonda,Invicta, Bean, and Lea Francis.
The rapidly expanding Meadows operation "backed on to"Sydney Guys works, and an amicable relationship existed between the two. So much so, that when Guy produced the first British designed V8 motor car engine in the 1923 Guy car, Sydney Guy presented an example to his friend Henry Meadows, who used this vehicle up to his passing in 1937. The Guy was garaged at Meadows home in Copthorn Rd, where a 1930s guest was T E Lawrence, (Lawrence of Arabia), working with Meadows on the design of a twin engined Air/Sea rescue launch. Meadows by this time being a major Marine Engine manufacturer.
1931 Hubert Scott-Paine, owner of the Hythe based British Power Boat Company had joined the Board, and Henry Meadows Junior was racing a Meadows powered BPBC boat in International events.
1937 Henry Meadows died, the works now employed over 1200 persons, and occupied a 16 acre site. The funeral in Penn Fields saw his coffin borne by staff, and the road outside lined two deep with mourners.
Guy were a quantity customer for the Meadows 4 ELA range of engines, which during WW11were fitted into the Guy Ant, Guy Quad , and Guy light tank. The DAV horizontaly opposed “flat” 12 cylinder tank engine of 300hp @2500rpm was fitted to the Cruiser tank. So great was Meadows wartime production that a further 10 acres were added to bring the site from both Fallings lane, to the Cannock Road.
Post war a new range of “square” Diesels were launched, in both 4, and 6 cylinder versions. Both shared identical bore and stroke of 130mm. The 6 cylinder 6 DC630 engine of 120hp, fitted with CAV injection was supplied to Guy, complete with a 5speed Meadows overdrive Gearbox, and fitted into the “Willenhall” cabbed (Goliath), Invincible range.
The 8 litre 6DC500 direct injection 161hp@ 2500rpm, due to its compact size found a ready market in Guys Victory Bus chassis. But Meadows were also successfully manufacturing and selling Marine engines, stationary engines, welding sets, and of course Railway Diesel engines.
Early 1950s Henry Meadows were acknowledged to have the UKs most advanced engine manufacturing plant. Meadows worked closely with the Brush owned ABOE, (Associated British Oil Engines), producing Brush designs. Brush gaining control of Henry Meadows in 1952. The railway engine units were supplied to such diverse clients as the Katanga, Belgium Congo railway, and British Railways for the 1957 range of Rail Buses. The latter in collaboration with Ware based D Wickham Ltd. Railway Diesels were a major part of Meadows output, but so were lorry and bus engines for Scammell, ERF, Rowe,and Dodge. Agricultural models for Mineappolis Moline, Fowler, and Latil. Australias Chamberlin Countryman Tractors were powered by Meadows, and in 1963 a licence was granted to Bombay based Indian company Premier Autos to build 4 cylinder 4DC330 engines to be fitted to licence built Dodge Trucks. And we should not forget the short lived, but now highly collectable Meadows Frisky motor car!
Meadows also worked closely with Colin Chapmans Lotus,particularly regarding transmission on the Elite and M67. And perhaps this was what attracted William Lyons to Meadows, an easy fit into his Jaguar, Daimler,Coventry Climax, and Guy Motors empire. But importantly it was the attraction of the Diesel Engine production plant, where the Guy/■■■■■■■ V series diesels were projected to be built. (And perhaps the threat of this “new” range gave greaer emphasis to the AEC V8 design)?
This initiative did not come into being, and by 1968 British Motor Holdings morphed into British Leyland,…and it was decided to close Henry Meadows by 1969. Wolverhamptons then Labour MP Renee Short tabled a question regarding the loss of over 1000 jobs to Barbara Castle in Westminster…the short reply, “that the workers have time to find other jobs” really epitomises just how out of touch the Political classes have always been with manufacturing engineering in the UK… But close it did!
What of Meadows today…well the real estate was purchased by Don and Roy Richardson, most of the “avant garde” 1930s buildings demolished, languished as a trailer park, redeveloped with factory/warehouse units…and is now the Distribution centre for Assa-Ablow, who purchased…and killed off the manufacture of Wolverhamptons Chubb Safe and Lock company.
My “new” knee is giving me some stick, and remembering yet another great Midland company wasted away, does little to improve my mood, so I will take solace in my Bollinger…Henry Meadows, gone, but not forgoten!!
Cheerio for now.
Hi Saviem, Glad you got your knee sorted, I’m still limping along in the queue waiting for an appointment at North Staffs hospital.
Like you I think I’ve done too many gearchanges and worn it out 
Saviem:
Evening all, shugg, let me get my aged little grey cells into gear, and remember yet another sadly departed piece of Wolverhamptons motoring heritage. Perhaps some background would help…The company of Henry Meadows Engineering was created in April 1919, allegedly within the Little Swan Public House, at Horsley Fields Wolverhampton. Then an area of intense manufacturing, and terraced housing, (now a concrete high rise estate of dubious repute). The intention was to manufacture gearboxes to be supplied to the vibrant Wolverhampton and Birmingham motor manufacturers. The founders Henry Meadows, and Sydney Ellard, (founder of another long gone manufacturing company on the Wednesfield/Willenhall border)
Henry Meadows had worked for Clyno cars, and Harper Bean motor manufacturers. A factory was established on ground adjacent to Park Lane Fallings Park. This would quickly grow to over 14acres in size.
By 1920 Harper Bean owned Vulcan lorries were taking Meadows 3 speed gearboxes. 1921 John Dorman, of the Stafford based Dorman engine manufacturing company joined the Board. At the 1922 Olympia Show, Meadows showed the 1.2 litre 4 cylinder car engine. Within 5 years Meadows were supplying 4 and 6 cylinder engines to Lagonda,Invicta, Bean, and Lea Francis.
The rapidly expanding Meadows operation "backed on to"Sydney Guys works, and an amicable relationship existed between the two. So much so, that when Guy produced the first British designed V8 motor car engine in the 1923 Guy car, Sydney Guy presented an example to his friend Henry Meadows, who used this vehicle up to his passing in 1937. The Guy was garaged at Meadows home in Copthorn Rd, where a 1930s guest was T E Lawrence, (Lawrence of Arabia), working with Meadows on the design of a twin engined Air/Sea rescue launch. Meadows by this time being a major Marine Engine manufacturer.
1931 Hubert Scott-Paine, owner of the Hythe based British Power Boat Company had joined the Board, and Henry Meadows Junior was racing a Meadows powered BPBC boat in International events.
1937 Henry Meadows died, the works now employed over 1200 persons, and occupied a 16 acre site. The funeral in Penn Fields saw his coffin borne by staff, and the road outside lined two deep with mourners.
Guy were a quantity customer for the Meadows 4 ELA range of engines, which during WW11were fitted into the Guy Ant, Guy Quad , and Guy light tank. The DAV horizontaly opposed “flat” 12 cylinder tank engine of 300hp @2500rpm was fitted to the Cruiser tank. So great was Meadows wartime production that a further 10 acres were added to bring the site from both Fallings lane, to the Cannock Road.
Post war a new range of “square” Diesels were launched, in both 4, and 6 cylinder versions. Both shared identical bore and stroke of 130mm. The 6 cylinder 6 DC630 engine of 120hp, fitted with CAV injection was supplied to Guy, complete with a 5speed Meadows overdrive Gearbox, and fitted into the “Willenhall” cabbed (Goliath), Invincible range.
The 8 litre 6DC500 direct injection 161hp@ 2500rpm, due to its compact size found a ready market in Guys Victory Bus chassis. But Meadows were also successfully manufacturing and selling Marine engines, stationary engines, welding sets, and of course Railway Diesel engines.
Early 1950s Henry Meadows were acknowledged to have the UKs most advanced engine manufacturing plant. Meadows worked closely with the Brush owned ABOE, (Associated British Oil Engines), producing Brush designs. Brush gaining control of Henry Meadows in 1952. The railway engine units were supplied to such diverse clients as the Katanga, Belgium Congo railway, and British Railways for the 1957 range of Rail Buses. The latter in collaboration with Ware based D Wickham Ltd. Railway Diesels were a major part of Meadows output, but so were lorry and bus engines for Scammell, ERF, Rowe,and Dodge. Agricultural models for Mineappolis Moline, Fowler, and Latil. Australias Chamberlin Countryman Tractors were powered by Meadows, and in 1963 a licence was granted to Bombay based Indian company Premier Autos to build 4 cylinder 4DC330 engines to be fitted to licence built Dodge Trucks. And we should not forget the short lived, but now highly collectable Meadows Frisky motor car!
Meadows also worked closely with Colin Chapmans Lotus,particularly regarding transmission on the Elite and M67. And perhaps this was what attracted William Lyons to Meadows, an easy fit into his Jaguar, Daimler,Coventry Climax, and Guy Motors empire. But importantly it was the attraction of the Diesel Engine production plant, where the Guy/■■■■■■■ V series diesels were projected to be built. (And perhaps the threat of this “new” range gave greaer emphasis to the AEC V8 design)?
This initiative did not come into being, and by 1968 British Motor Holdings morphed into British Leyland,…and it was decided to close Henry Meadows by 1969. Wolverhamptons then Labour MP Renee Short tabled a question regarding the loss of over 1000 jobs to Barbara Castle in Westminster…the short reply, “that the workers have time to find other jobs” really epitomises just how out of touch the Political classes have always been with manufacturing engineering in the UK… But close it did!
What of Meadows today…well the real estate was purchased by Don and Roy Richardson, most of the “avant garde” 1930s buildings demolished, languished as a trailer park, redeveloped with factory/warehouse units…and is now the Distribution centre for Assa-Ablow, who purchased…and killed off the manufacture of Wolverhamptons Chubb Safe and Lock company.
My “new” knee is giving me some stick, and remembering yet another great Midland company wasted away, does little to improve my mood, so I will take solace in my Bollinger…Henry Meadows, gone, but not forgoten!!
Cheerio for now.
Hi Saviem, glad your new parts are ok, trust you got a good warranty deal! Just a quick comment on your reference to Westminster being out of touch with engineering manufacturing , I watched in horror recently, a news feature on the " idiots lantern" proudly announcing that Birmingham were buying 20 new trams at a cost of 40 million quid .Has the contract been awarded to the impoverished manufacturing industries of the Midlands or indeed to anywhere else in the UK? No it has been awarded to a company in Zarragoza in Spain , is this to help out our fellow EU member to solve its economic crisis or just another blow to the capabilities of our brilliant engineers ! The same thing happened recently when a contract for British rolling stock was awarded to Siemens in Germany when it could have been done in Derby ! Douglas in Cheltenham tendered for a military contract a couple of years ago but lost the job to Germany despite being cheaper. Anybody in charge with any common sense?? Enjoy the Bollinger - Regards
Evening all, this new knee has got to be NOS the way it feels…its like a s/h centre bearing off a very worn AEC Marshall!! The wife arranged a lunch for some friends…to take my mind off it…but I spent ages watching the Grain trailers coming in, and wondering if the Claas on tracks was ok with a “new” driver…is this old age?
That Meadows DC630 engine was converted by Scammell, into a petrol unit to be fitted into their Military Explorer range. I seem to recall that the timing belts were of “fibre” construction, and non too reliable.
You can see William Lyons desire to utilise the Meadows/ Guy works to build a new range of compact V configuration diesel engines in conjunction with ■■■■■■■■ He would have halved the cost of production for Guy, and still retained Meadows connection with Scammell and Dodge, vastly reducing cost of production…but as happened so many times, our Trans Atlantic cousins were less than straight forward in their business dealings…twas ever the way!!
Noel, you are so right in your post…but as individuals we can do lile about it. Are the people responsible for such decisions so lacking in experience? Or totally unaware of the consequence of their actions?..
Bet they have never had their own money invested in some project,…I think Bradley Wiggins terminology is appropriate…W…s!!!
Back to the Bollinger, weve still guests here…and I may yet sell my LB76 tonight!!!
Cheerio for now.
Trev_H:
Hi Saviem, Glad you got your knee sorted, I’m still limping along in the queue waiting for an appointment at North Staffs hospital.
Like you I think I’ve done too many gearchanges and worn it out
Swap your wallet to the other pocket Trev 
Dennis.
Your resum’e of Meadows Engines is ,as always,“Saviem” most interesting and imformative.Before my time,of course,and my knowledge of said engines is very limited and,I must say,not very complementry,at least not from the chap who I aquired my first two “A” licences from.From memory,in 1968, he had a “life expired” Guy Otter with Meadows engine languishing in the back of his workshop,but he was still running a sister Otter with 4LK engine.You have enlightened me Sir and I will now “revise” my long held opinion about Meadows who’s demise appears to be a travisty of commercial justice ! 
Anyway,keep limping,it can improve with careful “running in” Cheers Bewick.
Hi, Folks, When iwas about 14 or 15 my dad had a couple of coaches on a contract job ,building Shotton steel works, taking the contractors in on the shift work,There was local firm from Rhyl ran a couple of Dennis’s and 1 Guy with A meadows engine , There were about 20 coaches on the job ,There was nothing to live with it. You seen it coming in the mirrror and they all moved over. Happy days ,Cheers Barry
many years ago I did a bit of spannering for a local haulier, they produced their own electric using a ex wd meadows generator. it was a 4 cyl diesel with a lever that decompressed 3 of the cylinders making it possible (with a bit of effort) for 1 man to start it via the ruddy great starting handle. happy days ,life was so much simpler back then 
Well a cousin of mine bought an Ex Army Genny & that was powered by a Meadows Diesel Engine he had for a lot of years then he sold it to a pal of ours at Perth & as far as I know his sons still have it, The next time Im up there I will ask about it, My cousin used it for his DC Welder, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well a cousin of mine bought an Ex Army Genny & that was powered by a Meadows Diesel Engine he had for a lot of years then he sold it to a pal of ours at Perth & as far as I know his sons still have it, The next time Im up there I will ask about it, My cousin used it for his DC Welder, Regards Larry.
Larry, the Gen sets were a big seller for Meadows. My neighbour has one he still uses today, plus another that pumps slurrry, (with no breakdowns whatsoever), and both are over 50!!
Barry, that coach probably had the 8 litre, big power at 161hp, in its day, almost unmatchable by any other engine builder.
I have loads of Meadows literature, when , (if ever), I get this new office finished, and learn to use the equipment that the family have given me…well I will post them for you all to see.
Daft, is it not, I have a soft spot for the Commercial Vehicle interests of Wolverhampton, particularly Guy, and Henry Meadows. Both profitable companies, and both with a filled forward order book…yet those Leyland people choose to close them down…but I expect that the Southall enthusiasts feel,(and quite rightly), the same about AEC.
I have watered the Greenhouses tonight, so the “new” knee seems to be working…but did I get a B…g about doing it!!! Each time my lad comes in on the Claas I feel old and redundant, how long before I can drive again…B…y knees…
New delivery of Bollinger today…mine is probably the “poorest address” Marcel delivers to, but I bet it is the only one where he gets a proper lunch, and very fresh eggs, tomatoes, and lettuce to take back to France for his family!!!
I shall open a fresh Magnum,…1999, and raise a toast to you all…
Bon Nuit mes Braves…Cheerio for now.
Great information about Henry Meadows, yet another “lost cause” of our once respected manufacturing industry. Saviem, what do you remember about Moss gearboxes and axles, another from your part of the world if I’m not mistaken? My first restoration project, a 1965 Seddon 16/4/470 had a Moss rear axle and I recall that they had a reputation for snapping half shafts in the maximum weight Seddon artics of the time.
gingerfold:
Great information about Henry Meadows, yet another “lost cause” of our once respected manufacturing industry. Saviem, what do you remember about Moss gearboxes and axles, another from your part of the world if I’m not mistaken? My first restoration project, a 1965 Seddon 16/4/470 had a Moss rear axle and I recall that they had a reputation for snapping half shafts in the maximum weight Seddon artics of the time.
Evening all, graham, Moss was a Birmingham company, and primarily a motor car component supplier, as well as gearboxes for Jaguar, (SS through to E type, and Mk 10), Jensen, Morgan, Vanwall, Cooper, etc. Jaguar built Moss boxes themselves, a Moss box, built by Moss themselves has a letter S stamped on the filler. (my Brain is stuffed with utterly useless information)!
Yes they did axles for a number of lorry people, Seddon, Vulcan,ERF, Daimler. Again a very multi faced company, producing a large number of component parts for (primarily), the car industry, as well as marine, industrial, aircraft and plant sectors.
Started by the Duckett family in Aston Birmingham, (1900ish), to produce helical gears for the motor industry. Heavily engaged in WW1. Post war concentrated on industrial gearboxes. Around mid 1920s moved to a new purpose built factory at Tyburn, Erdington, Birmingham. I believe that the name Moss, related to the Duckett families original home in Moss Side Yorkshire.
1935 was “floated” as a public company, was a star at the 1937 British Industrial Fair, (BIF), showing such diverse products as camshafts, industrial pumps, and aircraft components. By the outbreak of WW11 Moss had around 2000 staff. During the conflict the works was controlled by the MOD, and primarily produced Tank transmissions, and aircraft components. Was heavily Blitzed, (the actual raids, and loss of life, on Birmingham are now known to have been more severe, in both duration, damage, and loss of civillian life, than those on Coventry, Liverpool, and London. Yet have for reasons of “security”, received little recognition). In recent years much has been revealed about them, and makes some very sober reading.
The MOD remained in control up untill 1949, when civillian work was resumed. By the 60s, staffing had shrunk to around 1000, and the Tyburn works, along with its wartime “shadow” plants at Merthyr Tydfil, and Accrington were becoming more automated. Products included universal joints, axles, engine components, plus aircraft and plant componentry.
1966 the Birmingham, Tyburn plant closed, and production continued at Merthyr, and Accrington.
1982 saw a management buy out of the Accrington plant, and the creation of FPW Axles, (the three initials of the buy out team,Fone, Pickles, Wilson). This was quickly folowed by the acquisition of Leylands light axle plant and production. As far as I am aware they are still
going today.
Best I can do off the top of my head gingerfold, I`m a bit stronger on Clyno, AJS, Star, Sunbeam, Guy, Meadows, Rubery Owen, Turner, (tractors), Turner, (Sports cars), and all the other long gone bits of the Wolverhampton, and Black Country motor industry. Sadly all long gone.
I shall away, and open one of my “new” 1999 Bollingers, my little grey cells need lubrication…and remember when Britain really was a workshop!
Cheerio for now.
Meadows supplied engines to AJS motorcycles when A J Stevens tried to make a small car, later on Meadows built their own small car to compete with the motorcycle. See the Meadow Frisky
Wolverhampton was a major place for the motor industry
Hi Saviem, thanks for the info about Moss axles and the other components it made. I recall that when I began my Seddon restoration in 1986 (was it really so long ago!) I needed a rear hub oil seal and these were quite a wide seal. Even though the lorry was only 21 years old finding Moss parts was very difficullt and its amazing how soon relatively large and important component manufacturers that have fallen by the wayside, so to speak, are soon forgotten. Eventually after much searching and persistance I located the required oil seal sitting on a shelf gathering dust at a motor factors in Royston, Herts. Needless to say that once I’d got the Seddon up and running in 1988 at one of the first large events I attended with it I was mooching about the ‘tat’ stalls and found another 3 brand new Moss axle oil seals, which I bought for spares. I kept the Seddon for about 11 years and never needed any more oil seals.
my grey cells seem to remember that ford used either a meadows or a dorman engine at one time in late 60s in some of their D series.am I correct,as I only ever saw one coming off a tip one day. 
A bit of history here…historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/ … eadows.htm
Cheers
Oily
This shot is what I believe was the first artic that James Cropper the Kendal Papermaker took delivery of in 1965,it had the Leyland 600 engine,not sure what gearbox and the Moss axle.IIRC it didn’t have power steering although all the subsequent sister units did have power steering.