Carryfast:
[
The so called tory ‘majority’ at the 1979 election was 53% of a 76% turnout.The 1983 election was 61% of a 72% turnout.
Thems the rules. Don’t like it? Tough, a majority of those bothering to vote, voted Tory, so that is what we got. If you want a different result, get out and vote and get your mates voting too.
No vote: no right to ■■■■■ about the result.
Carryfast:
Don’t forget we also had mines,factories and steel works etc etc in the South too which were eventually closed down just the same owing to her bs policies of giving the country’s wealth creating industry away to the foreign competition.
Translation: Buyers chose to buy cheaper products made abroad because locally produced products had become too expensive, due to excessive wage demands from the British workers producing the goods, many of whom thought they were untouchable.
The quality of many of the products made in Britain at that time was not particularly good, so competing on quality didn’t stem the loss of British industry to the emerging far eastern producers whose quality was rapidly increasing.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Like council tenants effectively being given a subsidised state funded house by Maggie whereas others had to buy their own from the start including saving up for a deposit.So no surprise that ‘some’ needed to fight more to keep wages in line with prices than ‘others’.I lived in a council house just after I got married. I could have bought that house, but I saved my deposit and bought a private house, which 31 years later I still live in. The house I bought is not grand, but it is in a nice area, and the location suits my work. Every now and then we think about moving, but in the end we always decide that we like where we are better than anywhere else we could afford.
This idea you have that increasing wages somehow would help you better yourself is nuts, as prices of everything would simply rise to compensate, so you would be no better off unless you could make yourself alone better off than your fellow wage slaves. Oh yeah, the miners tried that one, didn’t they? Then they met their nemesis.
Seems to me like the typical British outlook of socialism when it suits them and not when it doesn’t.As I’ve said there should have been no social housing or social security or NHS at all in which case you ( rightly ) wouldn’t have had that option at all and in which case you might just want to change your mind about the issue of making sure that workers don’t undercut each other in terms of incomes by organising them into unions,if you’ve got any sense.Because if not the results would be catastrophic for civilised society.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Don’t forget we also had mines,factories and steel works etc etc in the South too which were eventually closed down just the same owing to her bs policies of giving the country’s wealth creating industry away to the foreign competition.Translation: Buyers chose to buy cheaper products made abroad because locally produced products had become too expensive, due to excessive wage demands from the British workers producing the goods, many of whom thought they were untouchable.
The quality of many of the products made in Britain at that time was not particularly good, so competing on quality didn’t stem the loss of British industry to the emerging far eastern producers whose quality was rapidly increasing.
I think Maggie’s admirer Reagan also took that idea to it’s logical conclusion in America and the rest was/is history for the American working class and the US economy.That idea is actually the best way to make the advanced,rich,western societies totally redundant and at risk of future attack through loss of their defence budgets.Which is where they are heading now.
22 January 1979 was the biggest individual day of strike action since the general strike of 1926, and many workers stayed out indefinitely afterwards. With many in the private sector having achieved substantial rises, the public sector unions became increasingly concerned to keep pace in terms of pay. The government had already announced a slight weakening of the policy on 16 January, which gave the unions cause for hope that they might win and use free collective bargaining. Train drivers belonging to ASLEF and the National Union of Railwaymen had already begun a series of 24-hour strikes, and the Royal College of Nursing conference on 18 January decided to ask that the pay of nurses be increased to the same level in real terms as 1974, which would mean a 25% average rise. The public sector unions labelled the date the “Day of Action”, in which they held a 24-hour strike and marched to demand a £60 per week minimum wage.
With the succession of strikes having been called and then won, many groups of workers began to take unofficial action — often without the consent or support of the union leaderships. Ambulance drivers began to take strike action in mid-January, and in parts of the country (London, West Midlands, Cardiff, Glasgow and the west of Scotland) their action included refusing to attend 999 emergency calls. In these areas, the Army was drafted in to provide a skeleton service. Ancillary hospital staff also went on strike. On 30 January, the Secretary of State for Social Services David Ennals announced that 1,100 of 2,300 NHS hospitals were only treating emergencies, that practically no ambulance service was operating normally, and that the ancillary health service workers were deciding which cases merited treatment. The media reported with scorn that cancer patients were being prevented from getting essential treatment.
Burying the dead
The most notorious action during the winter was the unofficial strike by gravediggers, members of the GMWU in Liverpool and in Tameside near Manchester. As coffins piled up, Liverpool City Council hired a factory in Speke to store them. On 1 February a persistent journalist asked the Medical Officer of Health for Liverpool, Dr Duncan Dolton, what would be done if the strike continued for months, Dolton speculated that burial at sea would be considered. Although his response was hypothetical, in the circumstances it caused great alarm. The gravediggers eventually settled for a 14% rise after a fortnight’s strike.
Waste collectors
With many collectors having been on strike since 22 January, local authorities began to run out of space for storing waste and used local parks under their control. Westminster City Council used Leicester Square in the heart of London’s West End for piles of rubbish, and as the Evening Standard reported, this attracted rats.
On 21 February, a settlement of the local authority workers’ dispute was agreed, whereby workers got an 11% rise, plus £1 per week, with the possibility of extra rises, should a pay comparability study recommend them. Some left-wing local authorities, among them the London Borough of Camden, conceded the union demands in full (known as the ‘Camden surplus’) and then saw an investigation by the District Auditor, which eventually ruled it a breach of fiduciary duty and therefore illegal. Camden Borough councillors, among them Ken Livingstone, avoided surcharge. Livingstone was Leader of the Greater London Council at the time the decision not to impose a surcharge was made.
“Crisis? What crisis?”
Wheel Nut:
22 January 1979 was the biggest individual day of strike action since the general strike of 1926, and many workers stayed out indefinitely afterwards. With many in the private sector having achieved substantial rises, the public sector unions became increasingly concerned to keep pace in terms of pay. The government had already announced a slight weakening of the policy on 16 January, which gave the unions cause for hope that they might win and use free collective bargaining. Train drivers belonging to ASLEF and the National Union of Railwaymen had already begun a series of 24-hour strikes, and the Royal College of Nursing conference on 18 January decided to ask that the pay of nurses be increased to the same level in real terms as 1974, which would mean a 25% average rise. The public sector unions labelled the date the “Day of Action”, in which they held a 24-hour strike and marched to demand a £60 per week minimum wage.With the succession of strikes having been called and then won, many groups of workers began to take unofficial action — often without the consent or support of the union leaderships. Ambulance drivers began to take strike action in mid-January, and in parts of the country (London, West Midlands, Cardiff, Glasgow and the west of Scotland) their action included refusing to attend 999 emergency calls. In these areas, the Army was drafted in to provide a skeleton service. Ancillary hospital staff also went on strike. On 30 January, the Secretary of State for Social Services David Ennals announced that 1,100 of 2,300 NHS hospitals were only treating emergencies, that practically no ambulance service was operating normally, and that the ancillary health service workers were deciding which cases merited treatment. The media reported with scorn that cancer patients were being prevented from getting essential treatment.
Burying the dead
The most notorious action during the winter was the unofficial strike by gravediggers, members of the GMWU in Liverpool and in Tameside near Manchester. As coffins piled up, Liverpool City Council hired a factory in Speke to store them. On 1 February a persistent journalist asked the Medical Officer of Health for Liverpool, Dr Duncan Dolton, what would be done if the strike continued for months, Dolton speculated that burial at sea would be considered. Although his response was hypothetical, in the circumstances it caused great alarm. The gravediggers eventually settled for a 14% rise after a fortnight’s strike.Waste collectors
With many collectors having been on strike since 22 January, local authorities began to run out of space for storing waste and used local parks under their control. Westminster City Council used Leicester Square in the heart of London’s West End for piles of rubbish, and as the Evening Standard reported, this attracted rats.On 21 February, a settlement of the local authority workers’ dispute was agreed, whereby workers got an 11% rise, plus £1 per week, with the possibility of extra rises, should a pay comparability study recommend them. Some left-wing local authorities, among them the London Borough of Camden, conceded the union demands in full (known as the ‘Camden surplus’) and then saw an investigation by the District Auditor, which eventually ruled it a breach of fiduciary duty and therefore illegal. Camden Borough councillors, among them Ken Livingstone, avoided surcharge. Livingstone was Leader of the Greater London Council at the time the decision not to impose a surcharge was made.
“Crisis? What crisis?”
There’s no such thing as a free lunch and why should anyone be expected to work for nothing considering that at that time the pound had lost around 60% of it’s value in real terms since 1973.Even though the place was self sufficient in coal and oil British buyers were paying more for our own fuel at the pump than Luxembourg ones were.Together with price increases in general running way ahead of even what those unions were asking for in an unsuccessful attempt to keep their wages in line with inflation.Although it’s my bet that you weren’t one of those working for council wages in 1979 let alone 1980.The country has had Maggie’s utopia since then and look where it’s got the economy.More or less a banana republic with no bananas. 
andrew.s:
Solly:
Loathed the woman as much as she loathed the “Working Class’s”. I remember how she devastated hundreds of thousands of decent peoples lives because of it and didn’t give a [zb]. As for her part in the Falklands war, she was a coward as were her whole cabinet. Great leader! give us a [zb] break.could you eleborate on the falklands war bit?
No. If you were around at the time, and old enough, you would understand, and I’m not prepared to enter into a history lesson. HTH.
The Sarge:
Just heard the news about Thatcher, can’t say that I am wailing with uncontrollable grief.
And before the sycophants start eulogising her lets have a look at her true legacy.
Thriving communities were destroyed by her policy of ‘greed is good’ the rich got richer and to hell with the rest of us.
More crime,
more drug use, more suicides
and the collapse of the ‘community’ way of life.
She sold off the public owned industries to ‘kick-start’ the rip-off Britain that we have today, the railways, gas, electric, telecom needed reform yes, but all she did was pass them onto foreign ownership with the resultant charges that we suffer today.
She did look after her family, while destroying everyone else’s, children were forced to move away, or both partners forced to work to make ends meet. The result is the high social care costs of today - but fair play mun, she looked after Denis, letting him use No.10 notepaper for his business so foreigners thought that they were dealing with the government, and her boy, whatisname, done all right with dodgy arms deal didn’t he.
Talking about arms deals, how many did she and the Argentinian generals kill in the Falklands, a war every expert states could have been averted if we had acted sooner, but there you are, she won a general election on their graves.
Health and education became run-down, and the school playgrounds sold off, and the tories of today have the gall to complain about obesity.
Heavy industry, such as shipbuilding, steel and coal mining wiped out to make entirely dependent on other countries for our manufactured goods. Now we don’t make anything thanks to Thatcher just serve each other in shops and such and watch
h the bankers laugh at us.
Which brings me to the biggest con of all, selling off council houses cheaply, sounded great didn’t it. But did you notice that although the house prices were reduced thereby starving local authorities of money, the interest rates shot up so the fat cats won again. But the real motive was to get everyone in debt, and it succeeded, and once you owe a lot of money you are less likely to strike for your rights.
I can’t be bothered to add bits on the poll tax riots, standards of living dropping for the first time in this country, increasing poverty levels, the two-faced rhetoric over Europe, the disgraceful pandering to American bankers, and the cold indifference to peoples suffering.
+1
Can anyone please tell me where the hell does CF get his ideas from ? Font of knowledge on all things he is
I remember the parolous state that this Country was in during the late 1970s under a Labour Government.I was made redundant in March 1979luckily I found a new job soon after.This Country needed some one with balls Margaret stood up to the French the Germans and the idiots who were allowed to be in charge of the militant unions.I did not vote for Red Robbo ,Arthur Scargill or Mick McGaghy.
Ah! I see. It was the “Militant unions” who got Britain into the mess it was in then and still is today eh?
Well yes, that’s very true, but it wasn’t, as is generally claimed by the right-wing media and Thatcher acolytes, the “Trades Unions” who were to blame for the ■■■■ we found and still find ourselves in today. It wasn’t the then EU either.
Solly:
andrew.s:
Solly:
Loathed the woman as much as she loathed the “Working Class’s”. I remember how she devastated hundreds of thousands of decent peoples lives because of it and didn’t give a [zb]. As for her part in the Falklands war, she was a coward as were her whole cabinet. Great leader! give us a [zb] break.could you eleborate on the falklands war bit?
No. If you were around at the time, and old enough, you would understand, and I’m not prepared to enter into a history lesson. HTH.
dont be so patronising.
enlighten those of us who werent old enough at the time to understand.
andrew.s:
Solly:
andrew.s:
Solly:
Loathed the woman as much as she loathed the “Working Class’s”. I remember how she devastated hundreds of thousands of decent peoples lives because of it and didn’t give a [zb]. As for her part in the Falklands war, she was a coward as were her whole cabinet. Great leader! give us a [zb] break.could you eleborate on the falklands war bit?
No. If you were around at the time, and old enough, you would understand, and I’m not prepared to enter into a history lesson. HTH.
dont be so patronising.
enlighten those of us who werent old enough at the time to understand.
You aksed,so here are some of the facts that led to the conflict.
This war could have been avoided by the UK
The Falklands War was an armed conflict fought between the United Kingdom and Argentina over the ownership of the Falkland Islands (Spanish: Islas Malvinas) South Georgia and Sanwitch Islands.
The conflict lasted 3 months and cost more than 1.000 lives mainly because most of soldiers from both countries committed suicides due to post-traumatic disorders.
This war was the result of a long-standing sovereignty claim put forward by Argentina in order to achieve an sovereignty agreement on the basis that they were invaded in 1833 by the British Empire that managed to expel Luis Vernet, the first Argentine designated governor who was already in charge of the islands.
In 1982, Argentina was being governed by a falling dictatorship that sought to divert public attention by using the cause stated above in order to avoid their loss of power and, at the same time, force Britain to start the negotiations she previously pledged to negotiate believing that this was not going to cause any armed conflict.
In April 2 of 1982 Argentine armed forces were dispatched to the disputed islands and seized the British garrison that protected them without causing any death. This fact was seen by Argentina as a legitimate reocupation of its own territory based on the Argentine Constitution and by Britain as an Invasion of a British Oversea Territory.
Sinking of the Belgrano, The Most Controversial Fact of the War:
Picture: ARA General Belgrano being sunk
On May 2, the nuclear-powered submarine HMS Conqueror torpedoed the ARA General Belgrano Argentine cruiser as it was sailing away from the Falkland Islands, the British Task Force and the Exclusion Zone declared by the UK causing 316 Argentine deaths.
Fourteen hours prior to her sinking, Peru’s president Belaunde Terry put forward the Peruvian Peace Proposals that primely suggested the withdrawal of both the Argentine and British forces and the introduction of a Neuter government constituted by Brazil, Peru, Germany and USA until a peaceful agreement is formally reached.
However, the administration of Margaret Thatcher made the following statements in order to justify the sinking:
On May 24, 1982 (a few days before the General Election of 1983) the BBC broadcast a controversial interview with Mrs Thatcher and Diana Gould who asked her for justification of the sinking of the Belgrano. Mrs. Thatcher looks very affected by the questions.
In 1985, Clive Ponting was arrested and charged for violating the Secrets Act by passing classified secret documents to Tam Dalyell about the sinking of the Belgrano, the documents revealed the following points refuting the government lies under the Thatcher administration:
“Truth of the matter is that the threat was not the 44-years-old cruiser, it was in fact the [Peruvian] Peace Proposal because that would have deprived Mrs. Thatcher of the Militar Victory that the Falklands War was all about in the first place, it was British Dometic politics rather than any care for those Falkland Islanders”
In addition, the commander of the Conqueror, Christopher Wrestford Brown stated in his book, “Our Falklands War” that he had the Belgrano in his sight 36 hours prior to her sinking as she was refueling at sea. (This fact fits the descriptions given in the secret documents leaked by Clive Ponting)
“That ship was a danger to our boys”
Although Mrs. Thatcher has repeatedly stated that the sinking of the Belgrano, in spite of its heading, was meant to protect British Soldiers lives, the sinking itself triggered the Argentine Air Force (Fuerza Aere Argentina) to strike back sinking numerous British ships rather than saving British lives as she repeatedly stated for defending her decision.
alamcculloch:
I remember the parolous state that this Country was in during the late 1970s under a Labour Government.I was made redundant in March 1979luckily I found a new job soon after.This Country needed some one with balls Margaret stood up to the French the Germans and the idiots who were allowed to be in charge of the militant unions.I did not vote for Red Robbo ,Arthur Scargill or Mick McGaghy.
I remember it too.What actually happened was that the economy nosedived and prices went through the roof after we joined the EEC after Heath took us into it against the better judgement of the opposition at the time.Then Thatcher supported our continuing membership of it during the referendum together with Wilson and Callaghan etc.
Not surprisingly with the pound becoming ever more worthless by the day the unions fought,but ultimately failed,to keep wages in line with price increases.The result inevitably being that disposable incomes collapsed,therefore spending power,therefore sales of goods,resulting in the first round of redundancies in the last days of Callaghan’s labour tory party before Thatcher got in and finished the job.
While all the while the tory press,not forgetting that so called Labour were actually just Tories with red coats on,made a lot about the headline figures of the wage demads,which the unions were putting in to ( try to ) keep the economy afloat,while completely ignoring the fact that the pound was going through the floor resulting in price led inflation going through the roof.All this in a country which was self sufficient in oil,gas and coal.
Militant workers bs.More like let down by a load of backstabbing,turncoat,sun reading,council house scrounging,zb’s amongst their own so called working class.
Wasn’t being “Patronising” Andrew. The whole “Thatcher” era and beyond, is well documented in the independent media. Anyone interested needs to read it for themselves and form their own opinion.
A subject about maggie. I bet curryfast is loving it
Dave the Renegade:
andrew.s:
Solly:
andrew.s:
Solly:
Loathed the woman as much as she loathed the “Working Class’s”. I remember how she devastated hundreds of thousands of decent peoples lives because of it and didn’t give a [zb]. As for her part in the Falklands war, she was a coward as were her whole cabinet. Great leader! give us a [zb] break.could you eleborate on the falklands war bit?
No. If you were around at the time, and old enough, you would understand, and I’m not prepared to enter into a history lesson. HTH.
dont be so patronising.
enlighten those of us who werent old enough at the time to understand.You aksed,so here are some of the facts that led to the conflict.
This war could have been avoided by the UK
The Falklands War was an armed conflict fought between the United Kingdom and Argentina over the ownership of the Falkland Islands (Spanish: Islas Malvinas) South Georgia and Sanwitch Islands.The conflict lasted 3 months and cost more than 1.000 lives mainly because most of soldiers from both countries committed suicides due to post-traumatic disorders.
This war was the result of a long-standing sovereignty claim put forward by Argentina in order to achieve an sovereignty agreement on the basis that they were invaded in 1833 by the British Empire that managed to expel Luis Vernet, the first Argentine designated governor who was already in charge of the islands.
In 1982, Argentina was being governed by a falling dictatorship that sought to divert public attention by using the cause stated above in order to avoid their loss of power and, at the same time, force Britain to start the negotiations she previously pledged to negotiate believing that this was not going to cause any armed conflict.
In April 2 of 1982 Argentine armed forces were dispatched to the disputed islands and seized the British garrison that protected them without causing any death. This fact was seen by Argentina as a legitimate reocupation of its own territory based on the Argentine Constitution and by Britain as an Invasion of a British Oversea Territory.
Sinking of the Belgrano, The Most Controversial Fact of the War:
Picture: ARA General Belgrano being sunk
On May 2, the nuclear-powered submarine HMS Conqueror torpedoed the ARA General Belgrano Argentine cruiser as it was sailing away from the Falkland Islands, the British Task Force and the Exclusion Zone declared by the UK causing 316 Argentine deaths.
Fourteen hours prior to her sinking, Peru’s president Belaunde Terry put forward the Peruvian Peace Proposals that primely suggested the withdrawal of both the Argentine and British forces and the introduction of a Neuter government constituted by Brazil, Peru, Germany and USA until a peaceful agreement is formally reached.
However, the administration of Margaret Thatcher made the following statements in order to justify the sinking:
- HMS Conqueror followed the Belgrano for 24 hours.
- The Belgrano was sailing towards the British Task Force at the moment of the sinking
- The Belgrano carried Exocet Missiles according to Intelligence Assessments
- The Peruvian Peace Proposals did not reach London until 3 hours after the attack on the Belgrano.
On May 24, 1982 (a few days before the General Election of 1983) the BBC broadcast a controversial interview with Mrs Thatcher and Diana Gould who asked her for justification of the sinking of the Belgrano. Mrs. Thatcher looks very affected by the questions.
In 1985, Clive Ponting was arrested and charged for violating the Secrets Act by passing classified secret documents to Tam Dalyell about the sinking of the Belgrano, the documents revealed the following points refuting the government lies under the Thatcher administration:
- HMS Conqueror has been following the Belgrano for 36 hours
- The Belgrano was sailing away from the Falklands and the British Task Force
- It did not carry any kind of missiles system
Video: Tam Dalyell on the Sinking of the Belgrano“Truth of the matter is that the threat was not the 44-years-old cruiser, it was in fact the [Peruvian] Peace Proposal because that would have deprived Mrs. Thatcher of the Militar Victory that the Falklands War was all about in the first place, it was British Dometic politics rather than any care for those Falkland Islanders”
In addition, the commander of the Conqueror, Christopher Wrestford Brown stated in his book, “Our Falklands War” that he had the Belgrano in his sight 36 hours prior to her sinking as she was refueling at sea. (This fact fits the descriptions given in the secret documents leaked by Clive Ponting)
“That ship was a danger to our boys”
Although Mrs. Thatcher has repeatedly stated that the sinking of the Belgrano, in spite of its heading, was meant to protect British Soldiers lives, the sinking itself triggered the Argentine Air Force (Fuerza Aere Argentina) to strike back sinking numerous British ships rather than saving British lives as she repeatedly stated for defending her decision.
Then add all the casualties together suffered by both sides was it really worth it and was the whole thing just a rigged excercise making the Argies think firstly that the British government was lowering it’s committment to the defence of the Islands knowing that the Argentine dictatorship would take advantage of that and then going to war as part of Thatcher’s forthcoming 1983 election campaign.
The fact is it probably would have saved lives and been cheaper and easier all round to negotiate getting rid of the Falklands and bringing it’s few British residents home long before Argentina ever bothered to invade the place.But that wouldn’t have looked so good for Thatcher’s future election prospects.
By the way the important bit about the Belgrano is that it’s a reflection of the woman that she didn’t order the sub to surface and help in rescuing survivors,many of who were lost when life rafts drifted away at sea,much like Doenitz and German U boat crews were vilified for doing during WW2.
HMS Conqueror didnt surface and machine gun survivors in their life rafts like doenitz encouraged his u boats to do though…
andrew.s:
HMS Conqueror didnt surface and machine gun survivors in their life rafts like some of the ■■■■ u boats did though…
Carryfast:
andrew.s:
HMS Conqueror didnt surface and machine gun survivors in their life rafts like some of the ■■■■ u boats did though…
yes i do know about the laconia incident,and hartstein was a good man.(a young mother was separated from her infant child-hartstein checked every lifeboat trying to locate her but sadly she drowned) shame about the typical gung ho yanks trying to bomb them…
but you cant deny that the u boat crews were encouraged to eliminate all survivors and some did it with relish.