waddy640:
I worked for a firm that paid by the tacho so card went in as soon as possible.
On one occasion I had to leave the unit at a dealer and drive a van back to yard. Took 15 min WTD break on way and wrote details on back of printout. Got an infringement for that, you just cant win.
that’s because the knob who did the download didn’t read the printout… the computer cant pick up written entries I would have just give back unsigned and written see manual written entry on print out ( Date ) .your covered and the notice cant stand on file.
I would have simply done the job properly in the first place …
Could you clarify who should have done the job properly.
I imagine he means that if you’d input a manual entry into the tachograph instead of writing on a printout you wouldn’t have got an infringement
Other people may have had different experiences, but my experience has been that office staff often don’t bother inputting written stuff into the analysis system, and that’s probably what happened in your case.
I also agree with nick2008 though, I wouldn’t have signed that infringement.
waddy640:
I was driving a van and therefore had no access to a tachograph at the time I completed my shift.
You do a manual entry when you next put the card in a digital tachograph
that’s what’s got me unless the download was at the end of shift?
But if the download was at the end of the shift there shouldn’t have been an infringement anyway, well not unless there was another offence before the card was last withdrawn.
At the start of the day I do my manual entry for the previous shift end time then question mark until start time of the current shift followed by covering the time between the start of the shift and the time I inserted the card. All this time is paid for so I don’t see a problem with it and some times the difference between starting my shift and inserting my card may be 15 mins, this allows me to do my checks without worrying whether they take me the recommended 15 mins or not.
dave19544:
At the start of the day I do my manual entry for the previous shift end time then question mark until start time of the current shift followed by covering the time between the start of the shift and the time I inserted the card. All this time is paid for so I don’t see a problem with it and some times the difference between starting my shift and inserting my card may be 15 mins, this allows me to do my checks without worrying whether they take me the recommended 15 mins or not.
tachograph:
When you’ve done manual entries a couple of times it’s so easy and quick I don’t see any reason not to do them.
Had no problems with a Siemens version but the Stoneridge one now is awful. I could do them but recently (had it’s 2 yearly inspection) it just goes around in a circle. I select finish time, add 5 minutes on, do all the other bits and it wont allow me to confirm entries. I wonder if something was touched during the inspection? It’s annoying, not worrying. I don’t give a toss tbh I just leave the card in for a few minutes to show other work.
The stoneridge tachos in our 09 trucks were so crap I had the same problem but the new stoneridge version is much better and simple to use.
Rhythm Thief:
Well, it’s bloody riddiculous, that’s all, given that the whole purpose of the drivers’ hours regs is to ensure happy and relaxed drivers. I mean, I can’t think of a worse way to get drivers in the right frame of mind to spend upwards of twelve hours piloting heavy machinery around the place than making them worry about stupid and pointless things like how to account for the twenty eight seconds they spent walking from their car to the truck.
Well, if you are driving the thing for upwards of 12 hours in a shift, maybe you should have another look at those riddiculous (sic) regulations again, before you drop yourself in some serious doo-doo…
But seriously, if your job really does have you getting into the cab as soon as you arrive at work, and similarly out again at the other end of the day then fair play. I suspect however that it doesn’t happen that way for the majority of drivers.
But regardless of whether it’s a couple of minutes or in reality rather longer (even Usain Bolt would struggle to get from car park to cab and card in in 28 seconds - let alone your average wobble-bellied truck driver), your post actually supports my argument: If you are in the habit of doing a manual entry at the start of every shift, it rapidly becomes second nature so you simply don’t worry about it at all. It’s rather like blind-side reversing - if you rarely do it, you’ll maybe get stressed on the odd occasion that it does become necessary, simply because you haven’t had the practice.
Alright, clever drawers … I know I don’t drive it for twelve hours. But it does seem to me that expecting every driver to have a record of every single minute they’re at work is unrealistic and uneccessary. And ultimately, not really much use … after all, what’s to stop you from lying about time that’s not recorded any other way?
Oh, and “sausage finger” typo corrected … cheers.
Rhythm Thief:
But it does seem to me that expecting every driver to have a record of every single minute they’re at work is unrealistic and uneccessary. And ultimately, not really much use … after all, what’s to stop you from lying about time that’s not recorded any other way?
If you start a shift at 10am but don’t put your card in till 10:10 I don’t see what’s so unrealistic about pressing a few buttons to tell the machine what you’ve been doing for those 10 minutes. And as has been said already, some ■■■■■■■■ companies require a set time for a walk around check so a manual entry can cover most of that.
Rhythm Thief:
But it does seem to me that expecting every driver to have a record of every single minute they’re at work is unrealistic and uneccessary. And ultimately, not really much use … after all, what’s to stop you from lying about time that’s not recorded any other way?
If you start a shift at 10am but don’t put your card in till 10:10 I don’t see what’s so unrealistic about pressing a few buttons to tell the machine what you’ve been doing for those 10 minutes. And as has been said already, some ■■■■■■■■ companies require a set time for a walk around check so a manual entry can cover most of that.
But that in itself is daft … my walk round checks are recorded when I’m actually doing them, by the tacho card being in the unit andset to “other work”. The only reason I can think of for not putting the card in when you get to work is that your lorry isn’t there yet or is otherwise unavailable to you, and if that’s the case you can’t check it over, can you?
That said, I wouldn’t have a problem doing a manual entry for, say, ten minutes in exceptional circumstances at the start of a shift. But not as a matter of course because I have five minutes in the office on the way to the car, or whatever.
Rhythm Thief:
Well, it’s bloody riddiculous, that’s all, given that the whole purpose of the drivers’ hours regs is to ensure happy and relaxed drivers. I mean, I can’t think of a worse way to get drivers in the right frame of mind to spend upwards of twelve hours piloting heavy machinery around the place than making them worry about stupid and pointless things like how to account for the twenty eight seconds they spent walking from their car to the truck.
But seriously, if your job really does have you getting into the cab as soon as you arrive at work, and similarly out again at the other end of the day then fair play. I suspect however that it doesn’t happen that way for the majority of drivers.
Yes in quite a lot of jobs, usually out of distribution centres, you can be hanging around after clocking in waiting to be allocated a run or even a unit to use. Or if your in a rigid it might be on a bay still and thus the keys unavailable. These tend to be the kind of places that get on your case about manual entries. It might also be the case that you get out of the truck at 4.50 for example, but then wait till 5.00 to clock out if your hourly paid as you won’t usually be begrudged doing that.
The law states that all of a drivers duties including start and finish time must be officially recorded
Those duties might be the X amount of time at the end of the last shift it took from ending the digicard to the point where it is deemed you ‘clocked off’ - that would be inputted at the start of the next shift
Those duties might include arriving at the ‘clock on’ point and waiting X amount of time for a truck to be available
Those duties might also be the time in the shift where no truck was available - manual input or manual entry on digiroll or analogue card is listed as acceptable as official recording methods
dave19544:
At the start of the day I do my manual entry for the previous shift end time then question mark until start time of the current shift followed by covering the time between the start of the shift and the time I inserted the card. All this time is paid for so I don’t see a problem with it and some times the difference between starting my shift and inserting my card may be 15 mins, this allows me to do my checks without worrying whether they take me the recommended 15 mins or not.
no thats wrong
you cant do your checks or pretend you have done your checks before putting your card in and then drive off a few minutes later
if stopped by vosa they will be able to check when your card actually went in
and that is how they will check to see how long you took to do your daily checks
I E from the time you put your card in to the time you started driving
the 15 mins from start of duty to putting card in is irrelevant
Rhythm Thief:
But it does seem to me that expecting every driver to have a record of every single minute they’re at work is unrealistic and uneccessary. And ultimately, not really much use … after all, what’s to stop you from lying about time that’s not recorded any other way?
If you start a shift at 10am but don’t put your card in till 10:10 I don’t see what’s so unrealistic about pressing a few buttons to tell the machine what you’ve been doing for those 10 minutes. And as has been said already, some ■■■■■■■■ companies require a set time for a walk around check so a manual entry can cover most of that.
But that in itself is daft … my walk round checks are recorded when I’m actually doing them, by the tacho card being in the unit andset to “other work”. The only reason I can think of for not putting the card in when you get to work is that your lorry isn’t there yet or is otherwise unavailable to you, and if that’s the case you can’t check it over, can you?
That said, I wouldn’t have a problem doing a manual entry for, say, ten minutes in exceptional circumstances at the start of a shift. But not as a matter of course because I have five minutes in the office on the way to the car, or whatever.
Nothing daft about it at all. It usually takes me about 5-10 mins in the office to get my run and unit sorted. Once I find my unit I check the truck over then stick the card in once I’m happy that it’s safe to drive. I then cover the time from the start of my shift to card insertion with a manual entry. All of my shift time is then recorded on the card.
You might think 5 minutes is irrelevant. Or daft. But from a legal standpoint you’re breaking the law.
dave19544:
At the start of the day I do my manual entry for the previous shift end time then question mark until start time of the current shift followed by covering the time between the start of the shift and the time I inserted the card. All this time is paid for so I don’t see a problem with it and some times the difference between starting my shift and inserting my card may be 15 mins, this allows me to do my checks without worrying whether they take me the recommended 15 mins or not.
no thats wrong
you cant do your checks or pretend you have done your checks before putting your card in and then drive off a few minutes later
if stopped by vosa they will be able to check when your card actually went in
and that is how they will check to see how long you took to do your daily checks
I E from the time you put your card in to the time you started driving
the 15 mins from start of duty to putting card in is irrelevant
In short, yes you can. As long as the activity is recorded. It doesn’t matter if it’s a manual entry or an entry made in real time with a card inserted.
An why is it such a problem to push a few extra buttons at the start of your shift? Once you start doing it, it becomes routine and just another thing. It almost becomes part of your daily checks.
Following the Regs to the letter, you should put your card in as soon as you take over the vehicle rather than doing your checks and then putting the card in (regardless of whether you make a manual entry to cover it).
… I know I don’t drive it for twelve hours. But it does seem to me that expecting every driver to have a record of every single minute they’re at work is unrealistic and uneccessary. And ultimately, not really much use … after all, what’s to stop you from lying about time that’s not recorded any other way?