Manual Entries For Debriefs Etc

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
101

shep532:
For example on a version 2 Siemens, if you choose NO for manual entry it fails to ask you to enter your start country - which is an offence. of course you could enter it manually after you have inserted your card but it is easier to choose YES to manual input.

Now this just shows how stupid it can get. If you don’t need to do a manual entry you don’t need to do a manual entry! Simple really. Now you say that, if you don’t do a manual entry the machine will induce an offence, unless you do a manual entry to put your start country!
I get to work, swipe in, get keys & paperwork, get in cab & insert card. The whole thing takes 45 seconds on a normal day, on return to the yard & after refuel & adblue carry out the reverse. Manual entry needed? I think not, so I don’t.

102

robroy:
What you say is more than likely correct , but wtf has this job come to when you just about have to account for every [zb] second :unamused: .You sound like you are quoting the 20second thing with a straight face.
All this type of ■■■■■■■■ is simply just paying lip service and showing total subservience, to the pedantic and downright ridiculous, over regulation set out by the faceless powers that be.
Will the world really end if you do not record handing your keys in ffs, and what if you drop them en route to the office, bend over split your kecks, go back in your cab and look for a safety pin, do you make a manual entry, or write on the back of a printout? :unamused:
I bet if you asked one of these dicks (that devised all this crap) that question, the irony would be lost on them, they would think you were being serious, with their heads firmly stuck up their own arses.

Also wtf is ‘Debriefing’ :open_mouth: :unamused: I thought it was what WW2 bomber crews had to do at the end of a mission, not drivers after delivering a load of bog rolls to Tescos.
Do you ALL really take this type of bull [zb] seriously or what? :open_mouth: I mean, is it ONLY me.

I have to agree with your robroy, maybe because I have been a lorry driver since well before the digi-tacho appeared so I am ‘old school’? :grimacing:

103

nobodysdriving:

robroy:
What you say is more than likely correct , but wtf has this job come to when you just about have to account for every [zb] second :unamused: .You sound like you are quoting the 20second thing with a straight face.
All this type of ■■■■■■■■ is simply just paying lip service and showing total subservience, to the pedantic and downright ridiculous, over regulation set out by the faceless powers that be.
Will the world really end if you do not record handing your keys in ffs, and what if you drop them en route to the office, bend over split your kecks, go back in your cab and look for a safety pin, do you make a manual entry, or write on the back of a printout? :unamused:
I bet if you asked one of these dicks (that devised all this crap) that question, the irony would be lost on them, they would think you were being serious, with their heads firmly stuck up their own arses.

Also wtf is ‘Debriefing’ :open_mouth: :unamused: I thought it was what WW2 bomber crews had to do at the end of a mission, not drivers after delivering a load of bog rolls to Tescos.
Do you ALL really take this type of bull [zb] seriously or what? :open_mouth: I mean, is it ONLY me.

I have to agree with your robroy, maybe because I have been a lorry driver since well before the digi-tacho appeared so I am ‘old school’? :grimacing:

Think that’s the problem mate we can remember the days before all this type of ■■■■ existed (however those days also had their problems admittedly, it was the OTHER end of the spectrum then)
For a lot of younger guys this is the norm as they know nothing else, maybe that’s why they stick up for it, who knows…who cares :smiley:

104

robroy:

nobodysdriving:

robroy:
What you say is more than likely correct , but wtf has this job come to when you just about have to account for every [zb] second :unamused: .You sound like you are quoting the 20second thing with a straight face.
All this type of ■■■■■■■■ is simply just paying lip service and showing total subservience, to the pedantic and downright ridiculous, over regulation set out by the faceless powers that be.
Will the world really end if you do not record handing your keys in ffs, and what if you drop them en route to the office, bend over split your kecks, go back in your cab and look for a safety pin, do you make a manual entry, or write on the back of a printout? :unamused:
I bet if you asked one of these dicks (that devised all this crap) that question, the irony would be lost on them, they would think you were being serious, with their heads firmly stuck up their own arses.

Also wtf is ‘Debriefing’ :open_mouth: :unamused: I thought it was what WW2 bomber crews had to do at the end of a mission, not drivers after delivering a load of bog rolls to Tescos.
Do you ALL really take this type of bull [zb] seriously or what? :open_mouth: I mean, is it ONLY me.

I have to agree with your robroy, maybe because I have been a lorry driver since well before the digi-tacho appeared so I am ‘old school’? :grimacing:

Think that’s the problem mate we can remember the days before all this type of [zb] existed (however those days also had their problems admittedly, it was the OTHER end of the spectrum then)
For a lot of younger guys this is the norm as they know nothing else, maybe that’s why they stick up for it, who knows…who cares :smiley:

I wonder what the young drivers of today will have to put up with in 40 years time, not as i’ll be finding out unless satan’s got free broadband… :open_mouth: :smiling_imp:

105

Our lot are really keen on infringements :unamused: the only ones who dont get um are the lads who bang their card in and press yes yes yes :open_mouth: :laughing:

106

robroy:

stevieboy308:
i’m not leading you anywhere that isn’t obvious! do you think there needs to be regs? - yes, then wouldn’t you agree without enforcement there’s pretty much no point in having any regs? do i take it you disagree with the leeway they give? either way it’s a cop out to slag it off but not say where you’d draw the line

i read the perceived or true bit, it’s perceived because people like you saying it is!! even when some of them will know it’s not

the trouble with discretion, 2 men get stopped for the same thing by 2 different vosa men, one gets let off, the other gets a fine. they get talking a week later, well this isn’t fair, this isn’t right, one rule for one yada yada yada, everyone should get the same treatment. so they write out a graduated penalty book, listing loads of offenses and the punishment dependent on the severity, they even include how they’ll basically let you off with 15 minutes and a 1t or 5% on weight, they make it freely available so you can decide if the risk reward ratio stacks up for you! and what do people throw at them, well there should be discretion, they can’t win!

People like me’ saying it’s (zero tolerance) perceived by others, or people like me with the said perception which?

It’s proven that some perceive it by the way they get so stressed out over trivial infringements, read some past posts on here.
You can’t surely put me in that category, it,s only a couple of days ago that you accused me of appearing to not give a [zb]…you can’t have it both ways.
If you’re happy with the present system of things in terms of hours rules and all the details rules regs dos and do nots, (maybe complicated for a reason if there are any conspiracy theorists on) well fair enough, I would prefer an old style more simplified version of it all. I ain’t going to start devising a hypothetical set of rules and regs as an alternative to what we have now either, mainly because I can’t be arsed and am not interested enough to do so, if you think that,s a cop out well thats up to you.

If you want an example of how it baffles guys on different levels, read the last few posts and as I said at the start, , if you want examples of how other guys worry about trivial infringements ( yeh maybe within the leeway parameters you mention) go through the entire forum where you will find numerous examples.
In both cases a good argument for simplifying the present system, and maybe then there would be no need for my call for discretion, as everybody would be up to press, and less stressed out by no longer worrying that they may have made a balls up and PERCEIVE that the wrath of hell was about to come down on them.

yes, i didn’t word it very well! people, like you going on about zero tolerance, leads to a perception by others that there’s a zero tolerance.

you say you know it isn’t zero tolerance, you say you don’t agree with is this zero tolerance policy, either perceived or true, that has some drivers [zb] ing themselves if they happen to inadvertantly go over their driving time for all of 2 minutes. so why not say, dude, there isn’t a zero tolerance policy? who’s fault is the zero tolerance myth? - drivers spouting ■■■■■■■■, i thought you don’t suffer fools? tell them!

again maybe i didn’t word it very well, but i was never asking you to draw up a set of rules and regs, what i was meaning to ask, where would you draw the line if you didn’t agree with the 15 minutes grace? i’ve not said i think the regs are spot on and given the choice would prefer a much more simplified version

107

stevieboy308:

robroy:

stevieboy308:
i’m not leading you anywhere that isn’t obvious! do you think there needs to be regs? - yes, then wouldn’t you agree without enforcement there’s pretty much no point in having any regs? do i take it you disagree with the leeway they give? either way it’s a cop out to slag it off but not say where you’d draw the line

i read the perceived or true bit, it’s perceived because people like you saying it is!! even when some of them will know it’s not

the trouble with discretion, 2 men get stopped for the same thing by 2 different vosa men, one gets let off, the other gets a fine. they get talking a week later, well this isn’t fair, this isn’t right, one rule for one yada yada yada, everyone should get the same treatment. so they write out a graduated penalty book, listing loads of offenses and the punishment dependent on the severity, they even include how they’ll basically let you off with 15 minutes and a 1t or 5% on weight, they make it freely available so you can decide if the risk reward ratio stacks up for you! and what do people throw at them, well there should be discretion, they can’t win!

People like me’ saying it’s (zero tolerance) perceived by others, or people like me with the said perception which?

It’s proven that some perceive it by the way they get so stressed out over trivial infringements, read some past posts on here.
You can’t surely put me in that category, it,s only a couple of days ago that you accused me of appearing to not give a [zb]…you can’t have it both ways.
If you’re happy with the present system of things in terms of hours rules and all the details rules regs dos and do nots, (maybe complicated for a reason if there are any conspiracy theorists on) well fair enough, I would prefer an old style more simplified version of it all. I ain’t going to start devising a hypothetical set of rules and regs as an alternative to what we have now either, mainly because I can’t be arsed and am not interested enough to do so, if you think that,s a cop out well thats up to you.

If you want an example of how it baffles guys on different levels, read the last few posts and as I said at the start, , if you want examples of how other guys worry about trivial infringements ( yeh maybe within the leeway parameters you mention) go through the entire forum where you will find numerous examples.
In both cases a good argument for simplifying the present system, and maybe then there would be no need for my call for discretion, as everybody would be up to press, and less stressed out by no longer worrying that they may have made a balls up and PERCEIVE that the wrath of hell was about to come down on them.

yes, i didn’t word it very well! people, like you going on about zero tolerance, leads to a perception by others that there’s a zero tolerance.

you say you know it isn’t zero tolerance, you say you don’t agree with is this zero tolerance policy, either perceived or true, that has some drivers [zb] ing themselves if they happen to inadvertantly go over their driving time for all of 2 minutes. so why not say, dude, there isn’t a zero tolerance policy? who’s fault is the zero tolerance myth? - drivers spouting ■■■■■■■■, i thought you don’t suffer fools? tell them!

again maybe i didn’t word it very well, but i was never asking you to draw up a set of rules and regs, what i was meaning to ask, where would you draw the line if you didn’t agree with the 15 minutes grace? i’ve not said i think the regs are spot on and given the choice would prefer a much more simplified version

If you look through this forum you will see that is just what I have done on quite a few occasions, saying things like ‘don’t bother your arse they can’t hang you’
Same with some of the lads who I work with, they actually think the 9/11 off is strict, they say oh ■■■■ I’ve had 9hr 10 off worrying they will get a bollocking :unamused: unbelievable, or the ‘speed target’ crew, ignorance knows no bounds with some in this job.
I’m with you about the need for a more simplified version of driver’s regs. As for the 15min thing, is this an official or an unwritten one, a lad I know swears blind he got done for 10 hr 12min first offence. Not sure if true but if habitually fair enough, but first offence kind of brings us back to the zero tol thing.

108

this is written about the fine for exceeding 4.5 hours driving in the graduated penalty book

The legislation shows the first hour as a £100 penalty, but VOSA examiners will generally
allow a 15 minute tolerance before notice issue. If, however a driver repeatedly ‘makes
use’ of this 15 minutes then the examiner may still take action.

on weight

The legislation shows that a £100 penalty will be levied for a 0%-9.99% overload, but
VOSA examiners will allow a 5% tolerance before Fixed Penalty or Prohibition issue
unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more.

109

stevieboy308:
this is written about the fine for exceeding 4.5 hours driving in the graduated penalty book

The legislation shows the first hour as a £100 penalty, but VOSA examiners will generally
allow a 15 minute tolerance before notice issue. If, however a driver repeatedly ‘makes
use’ of this 15 minutes then the examiner may still take action.

on weight

The legislation shows that a £100 penalty will be levied for a 0%-9.99% overload, but
VOSA examiners will allow a 5% tolerance before Fixed Penalty or Prohibition issue
unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more.

Well you are obviously more versed on the regs and potential penalties than me mate.
I just try and make sure my card is right to give them no excuses.
With just doing UK now I tend not to max out, and use a bit of common to find a proper parking place well before the 9 or 10 hour driving mark instead of waiting to last 5 mins.
Drivers only tend to ■■■■ up with times if they are either stressed, pushed, teararsers. terminally mad keen, plain dumb or a combination of all 5.
As said… I belong to the laid back/ cgaf group so am none of these :smiley: so it’s so far so good.