We don’t have any debriefs; all they are bothered about is us coming back empty with notes signed and nowt broken.
Get yoked up if poss. for next day, ponce about in the yard to get a bit more overtime then ■■■■ off home.
“Thanks for coming, see you tomorrow”.
After reading this thread,i felt a bit guilty,so i did a manual entry this morning. 
Confess when i’ve been on holiday and the month has changed i might make a mistake and just forget to enter any extras, it’s bad enough having to sort out the wreck that you’re lorry is after the numpties have done their worse without having to munch through all the clicks involved there.
commonrail:
i did a manual entry this morning.
Did she wake up ?
robroy:
What you say is more than likely correct , but wtf has this job come to when you just about have to account for every [zb] second.You sound like you are quoting the 20second thing with a straight face.
All this type of ■■■■■■■■ is simply just paying lip service and showing total subservience, to the pedantic and downright ridiculous, over regulation set out by the faceless powers that be.
Will the world really end if you do not record handing your keys in ffs, and what if you drop them en route to the office, bend over split your kecks, go back in your cab and look for a safety pin, do you make a manual entry, or write on the back of a printout?
I bet if you asked one of these dicks (that devised all this crap) that question, the irony would be lost on them, they would think you were being serious, with their heads firmly stuck up their own arses.Also wtf is ‘Debriefing’
Do you ALL really take this type of bull [zb] seriously or what?
Well said. 100% spot on. My thoughts exactly.
And me.
Me too 
peirre:
commonrail:
i did a manual entry this morning.Did she wake up ?
Monday morning walk in yard take keys out pocket, do a bit of lorry driving. Friday lunchtime put keys back in pocket walk out yard.
Park ma truck up, get my stuff together, select break and card out, keys out, lock up.
Walk into office, drop in notes, keys.
“Ciao guys, see you in the morning…”
Go to car.
Come in in the morning, pick up keys, go to truck and put my card in, say no to manual entries, put it straight on crossed hammers.
Defects, take defect report back in and collect paperwork, off I go…
If this ain’t good enough then bollox to them, I’m not arsing about accounting for 3 or 4 minutes of non-event time.
You should get a receipt for handing the keys in you know.
What a load of bollox when i worked weekends for stiller /carline used to pick up keys for truck in llanwern…any truck…never saw any body would then ring traffic office at port talbot to find out which trailer to take to where…and was the same in reverse at end of day truck put to sleep …no bosses no debrief no ■■■■ no debrief … 
Do other EU countries bother so much about such pathetic and pedantic application of the rules? I know I’ve been gone 6 years now but I remember all this crap in the UK back then with many firms and at the time whenever I spoke to Dutch, German or Eastern European drivers, they just used to keep the tacho on rest all the time and record driving only, as did I on the most part. The UK is the only place I’ve ever come across heated and passionate debates between drivers to do with things like the WTD, tacho modes, manual entries and any number of other absolutely pathetic, pointless and trivial BS that serves only to needlessly complicate the job way beyond any reason.
It really is no wonder that British drivers have lost out to foreign competition at every single turn. While the British driver plays policeman or road lawyer, wagging his patronizing finger at other drivers for this, that or the other, the German or Pole is just getting on with the job without kicking up a fuss and they must be a lot less stressed out for it.
robinhood_1984:
Do other EU countries bother so much about such pathetic and pedantic application of the rules? I know I’ve been gone 6 years now but I remember all this crap in the UK back then with many firms and at the time whenever I spoke to Dutch, German or Eastern European drivers, they just used to keep the tacho on rest all the time and record driving only, as did I on the most part. The UK is the only place I’ve ever come across heated and passionate debates between drivers to do with things like the WTD, tacho modes, manual entries and any number of other absolutely pathetic, pointless and trivial BS that serves only to needlessly complicate the job way beyond any reason.It really is no wonder that British drivers have lost out to foreign competition at every single turn. While the British driver plays policeman or road lawyer, wagging his patronizing finger at other drivers for this, that or the other, the German or Pole is just getting on with the job without kicking up a fuss and they must be a lot less stressed out for it.
Exactly! The Belgians are the worst, I’ ve worked alongside them and they don’ t give a ■■■■,… and it was Bruxelles that devised all this crap in the first place
It makes me laugh when you read threads like this how soòooo seriously some take all this ■■■■■■■■, without a hint of irony or derision in their tone.
If you deliberately and habitually run bent or take the ■■■■ you get done. On the other sided of things the odd error or misjudgement… followed by an explanation is all that is needed, I’ve had numerous different misdemeanours, it happens, and if checked nothing been said.
I bet some of them carry a manual and study it at night I hope I never meet them in a pub.
My experience from a compliance point of view is that the authorities are not much bothered for the odd occurrence. The occasional error, or breaking of the rules. However where they find habitual issues they tend to dig deep.
I work with an ex VOSA fraud officer. His job at VOSA was mainly to look for fraudulent activities. He now advises companies who are on the wrong side of DVSA and represents them at PIs etc. This means we collectively see a lot of what is actually going on in the industry (and also PCV) and yes DVSA do go to town on operators and drivers who consistently break the rules INLCUDING not manually recording other activities carried out away from the vehicle.
In most cases there is the magic 15 minutes that they will ignore for infrequent occasions. If the occasions are regular (i.e. daily or most days most weeks) they will take action.
We have seen many PI’s where DVSA have discovered work before the tacho is used or after the tacho is used and combined with other offences taken action against the Operator licence and in some cases individual drivers. In just about all cases it is where the missing time is far more than 15 minutes and it was the norm for both the drivers and companies to ignore these periods.
They are not usually bothered about a driver who takes his card out, spends 3 or 4 minutes saying goodbye to the boss and then going home - and vice-versa in the morning. They are looking for larger time periods where the drivers do actually carry out work i.e. unloading or cleaning vehicles etc. BUT … once they get into a company and find such activities they will go to town on all drivers for repetitive, but possibly minor things.
As for comments regarding European countries - yes the Belgians are very slack but having lived in Germany for years I know they aren’t. France can be a little pedantic as well.
shep532:
As for comments regarding European countries - yes the Belgians are very slack but having lived in Germany for years I know they aren’t. France can be a little pedantic as well.
I’m not surprised by the French, that’s the only other place that ever seemed obsessed with H&S to the same degree as the UK so I have absolutely no faith in their ability to get on with the job without making it needlessly complicated. As for the Germans, I know they’re ■■■■ about tacho rules in their simple form but I’ve never met a German who buggered about with crossed hammers and poa and the like, or did manual entries for a few minutes or seconds here or there. Perhaps drivers on domestic work there for big companies are subject to the same bureaucratic oppression as in the UK, but international drivers certainly aren’t, or didn’t used to be at least. When asking a bunch of German and Austrian drivers if they pay any attention to the WTD and use a mode other than rest/driving they looked at me like I had two heads and were of the opinion at the time it was an English thing, despite being EU law.
robroy:
Exactly! The Belgians are the worst, I’ ve worked alongside them and they don’ t give a [zb],… and it was Bruxelles that devised all this crap in the first place
It makes me laugh when you read threads like this how soòooo seriously some take all this ■■■■■■■■, without a hint of irony or derision in their tone.
If you deliberately and habitually run bent or take the ■■■■ you get done. On the other sided of things the odd error or misjudgement… followed by an explanation is all that is needed, I’ve had numerous different misdemeanours, it happens, and if checked nothing been said.
I bet some of them carry a manual and study it at night
Where will it all end mate? Looking at it, you’d think that drivers in general wouldn’t stand for it and just drag their feet and not bother pandering to such intrusive and pointless nonsense but a few minutes on this forum leaves me thinking that the majority actually approve of what the job has become and would welcome much more of the same. No job I’ve ever done in the UK was like that and I’m thankful for it.
Mikey D:
Debrief [zb] debrief what’s that cobblers when it’s at home ?
I just keep my tacho hours in line with my time sheet within plus or minus 5 mins
I ask or get told what I’m doing the next day , fuel up if needed etc have a chat if there’s anyone worth chatting too take my card out walk to car and go home simples
Quite agree,when I was running a depot had an agency bloke come in one afternoon to debrief, got there at such a time, no problems etc etc. WTF was all that about, if anything had gone wrong the phone would have rung.
The problem being for most of us is that we’re the paid lackey, and the boss is effectively our customer, just as our boss (and us) have to do our customers bidding if we all want to stay in business.
One party is customer, one party is service provider and their representative, last time i looked the customer paid for the provider and called the shots, it’s called the dog wagging the tail, not the other way round.
If you are on a good number you, if you have an ounce of common, look after it and as much as possible do as bidden, if the boss insists on filling in start and finish times on the digi machine i don’t really see the problem with doing so.
Yes its ■■■■■■■■, it always will be, but if it doing as your told puts getting on for twice the average wage into your bank accounts for what is basically a ■■■■ easy job, then why all the fuss.
You can say no, eventually go through the disciplinary procedures and if you keep saying no get the sack…whatever your opinion of all this it’s here and here to stay, you can make it work to your advantage nearly everywhere that isn’t paid piece work where every second being productive counts.
robinhood_1984:
As for the Germans, I know they’re ■■■■ about tacho rules in their simple form but I’ve never met a German who buggered about with crossed hammers and poa and the like, or did manual entries for a few minutes or seconds here or there.
I don’t think most comments on this thread are talking about a few minutes or seconds here or there (you can’t input seconds anyway!). I know there is a thread mentions 20 seconds and someone took it to mean accounting for 20 seconds when they actually meant it only takes 20 seconds to enter a period of activity.
Yes the Germans, French etc do use various modes the same as we should. But consider that most of them don’t unload/load so their periods of work would be quite scarce and also short and of all the ones I have met they consider if they aren’t moving, they aren’t loading/unloading then they are on break - and I’d agree with that.
Manual entries are for those periods of time worth recording. We know the Enforcement Sanctions policy gives us 15 minutes ‘grace’ before any form of action is considered so in my opinion 3 or 4 minutes collecting your keys … forget it. 10 minutes filling in a drivers health declaration, arguing with the planner and sorting your paperwork - that should be accounted for.
I ran a Drivers Hours CPC course yesterday - one lad was from a large waste recycling company with multiple depots UK wide who have just had some unwanted DVSA attention at one of the sites. Written time sheets were compared to tacho records and ‘large’ anomolies found - some as little as 10 minutes. The company has been ‘warned’ the TC will be informed. TM told ‘it may be wise’ to attend a Manager Refresher course before you go see the TC and given a “We’ll be back” message. As the driver said - they are now told to report straight to the truck, input anything that happened at the end of the last shift or start of this shift, then go to the office etc etc