Mike-C:
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ?
No, the hours recorded on your driver card/chart and/or logbook should tally up with your duty hours not necessarily the hours you’re paid for.
If the work is done and you’re told you can leave your rest period begins as soon as you book off regardless of whether or not you’re being paid.
I agree that the OP may have to accept the way the company want to do it though.
Mike-C:
G6Bob:
Question isIs this really want VOSA/DVSA want?
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ? IN this case your employer wants to pay you for more hours than you have actually attended. Many would view that as a perk. You want the perk to extend even more so that you do not have to record a reduced rest period, therby getting even more out of your perk?
OK, so how do we find people who falsify records ? Usually they are paid for more than what they have recorded, thats usually a dead giveaway. Thats what you’re doing. But !!! Hang on, the company want you to record duty time, for the duty you are paid for. Thats what you don’t want to do.
What a quandry for you. They’re expecting you to record as duty hours the hours they’re paying you ? Don’t let them take a liberty. Tell them you only want paying until you book off at 10pm and you’ll only record untill 10pm as Duty. That way, you’ll lose your extra two hours pay, but your conciense will be straight and you’ll have had no reduced rest. Just keep pushing it some more so every one loses their extra few hours payments, and when they lose it they’ll blame you because you didn;t want a reduced rest. You’ll be the favourite guy in the depot !!!
Mike, you’re wrong.
Normally, you’re not, but in this case you are.
I’ve worked for a lot of firms that guarantee minimum hours, 8, 10, 11 or 12 hrs minimum paid. If I do 4hrs work and go home, I get paid the minimum, but I don’t have to record what I’ve been paid.
An example, whilst working for the same firm as the OP, I started work at 7am, finished at 12pm to start again at midnight the same night and work until around 10am. For both of these shifts I was guaranteed and paid 12hrs… If I’d recorded 12hrs duty from 7am, I couldn’t possibly have started again at midnight could I?
I’ll need to find out for definite that you can end a shift on POA, as I’m sure i heard some where that other work must be how you end every shift…
If I get pulled by DVSA, and they look at my card and I have clocked out at 22:00 and I show POA from then until 00:13 then 2 minutes other work, and they ask what other work was I doing for that two minutes, and I say “None, I was in bed… I clocked out at 22:00, but that is when I stopped being paid” I think they may not be happy with this
Even if you can end on POA, I’ve still clocked out and left my work…
Just means according to them they have been breaking the law for some time now, as quite a few shifts, you get let away early on the Friday night so you can come in on the Sunday night, but it will be impossible now, due to having to do this.
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
They’re now asking him to record the hours he’s paid for. What do you suggest? And why is his supervisor a ■■■■ for suggesting he do so ?I suggest his supervisor is more honest and give the real reason rather than hiding behind some made up rule.
His supervisor is claiming VOSA/DVSA want this and that’s ■■■■■■■■;[/b] it’s not in any regulation that they enforce. Therefore he is a liar and a ■■■■. If the supervisor said, “this is what the company want you to do and if we want you to do it then you do so because we pay your wages and if you don’t like it you are free to leave,” then he’s not a ■■■■.
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Re read the OP. Hi supervisor has said no such thing as to what VOSA want, the op has asked himself this independant of what he has been asked to do. The op has simply been asked to record the hours he’s paid for. The OP wants to know VOSA’s stance, his boss has not mentioned VOSA, well so far …
I asked you why is his boss a ■■■■ to ask him to record the hours he’s paid for ? What you do or what you’ve done even for the same company is neither here nor there.
G6Bob:
I’ll need to find out for definite that you can end a shift on POA, as I’m sure i heard some where that other work must be how you end every shift…If I get pulled by DVSA, and they look at my card and I have clocked out at 22:00 and I show POA from then until 00:13 then 2 minutes other work, and they ask what other work was I doing for that two minutes, and I say “None, I was in bed… I clocked out at 22:00, but that is when I stopped being paid” I think they may not be happy with this
Even if you can end on POA, I’ve still clocked out and left my work…
Just means according to them they have been breaking the law for some time now, as quite a few shifts, you get let away early on the Friday night so you can come in on the Sunday night, but it will be impossible now, due to having to do this.
Of course you can end a shift on POA, listen POA just means you’re available…if he wants to pay you to midnight on the basis you’re available then thats fine. You’re not available after midnight, or 00.01 whatever, thats fine too. Thats when you’re availability ended, nothing grey area about that. Of course the other pre requisite of POA is precisley that you do not have to remain at your work station, i.e you can go home or where ever you like.
I can’t see how you’re going to progress arguing against them on this, as …one its a perfectly reasonable request for you to do this.Two if they done it the other way round…told you to book on at 4am and come in a 6am, would you confidently work until 9pm on the basis you started at 6am ? Don’t think so. And that exactly how the hours you book come into play with the hours you record and exactly why you should record everything you’re paid to do.
waynedl:
Mike, you’re wrong.
Normally, you’re not, but in this case you are.
Normally i’m not, and i’m not now. Throw a smiley in there for good humour … 
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ?No, the hours recorded on your driver card/chart and/or logbook should tally up with your duty hours not necessarily the hours you’re paid for.
If the work is done and you’re told you can leave your rest period begins as soon as you book off regardless of whether or not you’re being paid.
I agree that the OP may have to accept the way the company want to do it though.
Some part of…we’ll pay you till 12, we want you to record duty to 12 you’re not understanding ? Which part of that you struggling with ?
Rikki-UK:
With Coffee on this one… the law only says you have to record actual hours worked… if the company want to pay you more than that its non of DVSA’s concern… getting paid for 10 hours shift when your on “job and knock” and finish in 8hours is perfectly legal and there is nowhere that I am aware of in the regulations that states drivers have to account in any way for those extra hours pay.Yes DVSA may take a long hard look at it to see if its hiding something.
DVSA may take a look and you’re with Coffee on this ? Ok, he’s paid till midnight, they’ve asked him to record that fact. Tell him how he’s going to get around his reduced rest scenario ?
You could always quote coffee…“managers a ■■■■” !!!
Now i personally know people who have been prosecuted for nbooking on at 6am, putting the card in at 8am and working off the card untill 10 pm. Based on the hours booked as a start. Same thing , but in reverse. Now instead of paying a fine and having their licence suspended for repeating it , they should of just said…"the manager is a ■■■■ "…who knew !!!
■■?
Mike-C:
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ?No, the hours recorded on your driver card/chart and/or logbook should tally up with your duty hours not necessarily the hours you’re paid for.
If the work is done and you’re told you can leave your rest period begins as soon as you book off regardless of whether or not you’re being paid.
I agree that the OP may have to accept the way the company want to do it though.
Some part of…we’ll pay you till 12, we want you to record duty to 12 you’re not understanding ? Which part of that you struggling with ?
I’m not struggling to understand any part of that, what I’m saying and have been saying since my first post in this thread is that it’s not legally required to record time that is not spent at work regardless of whether or not he’s being paid for it, and I very much doubt that it’s the DVSA that has said it is.
Mike-C:
Re read the OP. Hi supervisor has said no such thing as to what VOSA want,
From the OP
G6Bob:
However during the week I was told by the supervisor that (and asked to sign) that VOSA/DVSA are expecting me to do a manual entry, not for the time I clocked out, but for the time I actually stop being paid…
Looks like his supervisor did mention VOSA and claimed this requirement was what they want.
Mike-C:
I asked you why is his boss a ■■■■ to ask him to record the hours he’s paid for ?
I never said his boss was a ■■■■ for asking him to record the hours he is paid for, I said he was a ■■■■ for being a liar. His boss can ask him to record whatever he wants, he’s the boss. However, he is hiding behind some made up rule and claiming it is what VOSA want instead of being honest and saying it’s what the company want. That makes him a ■■■■ in my book.
G6Bob:
Hi folksQuick query, hope you guys can help me out with this…
I know I am supposed to do two manual entries at the start of a shift, one for the end of the previous shift and one for the beginning of the shift I am doing. I always put a manual entry in for the time I clocked out the day before
Example… I took my card out at 07:00 and done shunting until 07:30, I’d come in the next day and put a manual entry in from 07:00 – 07:30… simple
However during the week I was told by the supervisor that (and asked to sign) that VOSA/DVSA are expecting me to do a manual entry, not for the time I clocked out, but for the time I actually stop being paid…
Example Friday night I clocked out at 22:00, but will be getting paid until 00:15 Saturday morning. What I would normally do is a manual entry from 21:50 when I took my card out until 22:00 when I clocked out, now they want me to put a POA manual entry in to cover for 22:00-00:15
Issue I have is I start at 19:00 on Sunday night, as far as I’m concerned this isn’t a reduced rest, but because I have to manual entry until 00:15 it is causing a reducer
Question is
Is this really want VOSA/DVSA want?
I didn’t know you could end a shift on POA, would I have to show a minutes other work to signify the end of my shift? If so, I’ll be in bed or in the house by then, Would showing other work whilst I’m clocked out and not at work, Isn’t that falsifying records?
If it’s the law fine, but it has cost me a overtime shift on Friday
Thanks Guys
i work now at one big transport company (fridge).and Friday driving trainer give sign infrigiment to one driver.infrigiment was -who he not enter manual entries for finish time.because folow rules my work finish time can t be when i pull card out.finish time will be 5-10 minut later anyway.
Mike-C:
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ?No, the hours recorded on your driver card/chart and/or logbook should tally up with your duty hours not necessarily the hours you’re paid for.
If the work is done and you’re told you can leave your rest period begins as soon as you book off regardless of whether or not you’re being paid.
I agree that the OP may have to accept the way the company want to do it though.
Some part of…we’ll pay you till 12, we want you to record duty to 12 you’re not understanding ? Which part of that you struggling with ?
I’m paid a day rate and as long as I turn up and do the work required on the day every body is happy. Now my day rate is based on an average of 12 hours a day and some days I do more than 12 some days I do less than 12. Applying your rational I should only ever show 12 hours mixed work/drive/break/poa. That can’t be right can it?
Thought big Bernie banned job and knock in Scotland?! Unless you’re agency?
G6Bob:
However during the week I was told by the supervisor that (and asked to sign) that VOSA/DVSA are expecting me to do a manual entry, not for the time I clocked out, but for the time I actually stop being paid…Example Friday night I clocked out at 22:00, but will be getting paid until 00:15 Saturday morning. What I would normally do is a manual entry from 21:50 when I took my card out until 22:00 when I clocked out, now they want me to put a POA manual entry in to cover for 22:00-00:15
Issue I have is I start at 19:00 on Sunday night, as far as I’m concerned this isn’t a reduced rest, but because I have to manual entry until 00:15 it is causing a reducer
Only skimmed through the thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned and even more apologies if its the wrong answer… 
I suspect due to chinese whispers and guessing from the management tree the new directive has become confused.
Its not unusual for companies to require your time sheet to match your tacho but in this instance the POA setting is incorrect (lets face it this whole POA business should be outlawed IMHO).
If you finish work at 22.00 but are paid till 00:15 then I would put an manual entry of Break/Rest from 22:00 to 00:15 as in essence this is correct and the tacho will switch to ? after that (or more rest). I’m not sure if this mode change will be recorded as an infringement by some software as an activity on the card though suppose you could just book the whole period as rest from the end of your last shift (when you went home) to the start of the next one (when you clocked in).
As its the truth being as you have finished work and will not be expected to return to work in that period and are tus free to dispose of your time in any way you wish jobs a goodun.
If your are on call in that period and may be expected to return to work up until 00:15 then as much as it makes me feel dirty, POA maybe acceptable.
but what probblem enter finish time and start time??all take 1 minut or less.some dhl as well have this rules.company boss will make rules ,not drivers.it is normal.if anyone from us open own company when after can make to many rules for drivers who will drive my truck.VOSA,Goverment make just minimum requirement but any company can make much much more.
example some DHl site must not moved truck in first 15 minut when inserted card.
Argos at Magna park have rule who drivers must come to work just after 11 hours rest and weekly reduced rest must be at least 35 or 36 hours.this rules for agency drivers as well.
Coffeeholic:
You’re supervisor is a ■■■■. Hope that helps.
I’m struggling to comprehend why the thread has gone any further than this post.
Terry T:
Coffeeholic:
You’re supervisor is a ■■■■. Hope that helps.I’m struggling to comprehend why the thread has gone any further than this post.
To be fair it appears the OP was well aware of this fact and I wasn’t giving him any new information about the bloke. 
Look at it this way. When the DVSA pull you up for it, what rule are they going to throw at you, and from which piece of legislation ?
Answers on a postcard
I’m currently getting paid for 10 hrs a night but have yet to do any more then 8.5. I dont do manual entries for the time I’m out of the unit and don’t think I ever will. That said I’ve never done manual entries, ever, and never had anyone say anything, ever.
