Quick query, hope you guys can help me out with this…
I know I am supposed to do two manual entries at the start of a shift, one for the end of the previous shift and one for the beginning of the shift I am doing. I always put a manual entry in for the time I clocked out the day before
Example… I took my card out at 07:00 and done shunting until 07:30, I’d come in the next day and put a manual entry in from 07:00 – 07:30… simple
However during the week I was told by the supervisor that (and asked to sign) that VOSA/DVSA are expecting me to do a manual entry, not for the time I clocked out, but for the time I actually stop being paid…
Example Friday night I clocked out at 22:00, but will be getting paid until 00:15 Saturday morning. What I would normally do is a manual entry from 21:50 when I took my card out until 22:00 when I clocked out, now they want me to put a POA manual entry in to cover for 22:00-00:15
Issue I have is I start at 19:00 on Sunday night, as far as I’m concerned this isn’t a reduced rest, but because I have to manual entry until 00:15 it is causing a reducer
Question is
Is this really want VOSA/DVSA want?
I didn’t know you could end a shift on POA, would I have to show a minutes other work to signify the end of my shift? If so, I’ll be in bed or in the house by then, Would showing other work whilst I’m clocked out and not at work, Isn’t that falsifying records?
If it’s the law fine, but it has cost me a overtime shift on Friday
I’ve no idea what DVSA want but there’s no reason why they would want you to book work when you’re at home in bed and there’s no reason why you would legally need to, If your supervisor is saying you have to book POA for the time you’re not at work ask him if you’re on call after you leave work, if the answer is no then there’s no reason not to book off at the time you leave work.
G6Bob:
I didn’t know you could end a shift on POA, would I have to show a minutes other work to signify the end of my shift? If so, I’ll be in bed or in the house by then, Would showing other work whilst I’m clocked out and not at work, Isn’t that falsifying records?
You can finish a shift on POA but in your case there’s no reason to unless you can be called back to work, you’re supervisor is talking rubbish.
G6Bob:
If it’s the law fine, but it has cost me a overtime shift on Friday
It’s not the law that cost you overtime it’s your stupid supervisor
Your tacho is for recording your duties while you are at work. Why your gaffer thinks you need to make a manual entry for time spent in your house and off duty is beyond me. If you are paid a guaranteed 10hrs per shift and only work 7hrs from clocking in till clocking out, you only need to show what you done in those 7hrs.
I’ve no idea what DVSA want but there’s no reason why they would want you to book work when you’re at home in bed and there’s no reason why you would legally need to, If your supervisor is saying you have to book POA for the time you’re not at work ask him if you’re on call after you leave work, if the answer is no then there’s no reason not to book off at the time you leave work.
G6Bob:
I didn’t know you could end a shift on POA, would I have to show a minutes other work to signify the end of my shift? If so, I’ll be in bed or in the house by then, Would showing other work whilst I’m clocked out and not at work, Isn’t that falsifying records?
You can finish a shift on POA but in your case there’s no reason to unless you can be called back to work, you’re supervisor is talking rubbish.
G6Bob:
If it’s the law fine, but it has cost me a overtime shift on Friday
It’s not the law that cost you overtime it’s your stupid supervisor
Well It’s a big Deutch company who I work for with Yellow lorries, the supervisor is just relaying the message from the top of the tree so to speak, but it’s the fact they are claiming Vosa, are looking for this, which I can’t see…
As for my overtime, if I can’t do it… no worries, they just call in agency. I sometimes worry they prefer giving agency workers shifts rather than give their own drivers overtime… maybe this is what they want, to stop us being able to do overtime!!!
mind in saying all this why the [zb] we have to book 8 hrs per day on wtd if your off on holiday or on the sick i’ll never understand … I have to book 8hrs per day or for the week 48 even though I cant drive because of a broken arm stupid I know
m1cks:
Have you asked your supervisor why he’s trying to encourage you to falsify tachograph records and if he’s aware that that’s illegal?
that would be my answer as well. A tachograph is a legal record to show what work you are doing, a company can pay you 24 hrs a day if they wish(not saying they would) but to do a manual entry saying you are still working when you are not is in my eyes falsifying that record.
G6Bob:
Well It’s a big Deutch company who I work for with Yellow lorries, the supervisor is just relaying the message from the top of the tree so to speak, but it’s the fact they are claiming Vosa, are looking for this, which I can’t see…
Well if it’s come down from upon high I suppose you may have to live with it, but they are wrong and personally I’d be questioning it.
I can’t speak for DVSA but there’s no legal reason why you should have to book time for when you’ve finished work for the day and I’d be amazed if DVSA wanted you to, if you cannot be called back to work you’re on rest, you would only be on POA if it was agreed that you could be called back to work after leaving.
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ? IN this case your employer wants to pay you for more hours than you have actually attended. Many would view that as a perk. You want the perk to extend even more so that you do not have to record a reduced rest period, therby getting even more out of your perk?
OK, so how do we find people who falsify records ? Usually they are paid for more than what they have recorded, thats usually a dead giveaway. Thats what you’re doing. But !!! Hang on, the company want you to record duty time, for the duty you are paid for. Thats what you don’t want to do.
What a quandry for you. They’re expecting you to record as duty hours the hours they’re paying you ? Don’t let them take a liberty. Tell them you only want paying until you book off at 10pm and you’ll only record untill 10pm as Duty. That way, you’ll lose your extra two hours pay, but your conciense will be straight and you’ll have had no reduced rest. Just keep pushing it some more so every one loses their extra few hours payments, and when they lose it they’ll blame you because you didn;t want a reduced rest. You’ll be the favourite guy in the depot !!!
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ? IN this case your employer wants to pay you for more hours than you have actually attended. Many would view that as a perk. You want the perk to extend even more so that you do not have to record a reduced rest period, therby getting even more out of your perk?
OK, so how do we find people who falsify records ? Usually they are paid for more than what they have recorded, thats usually a dead giveaway. Thats what you’re doing. But !!! Hang on, the company want you to record duty time, for the duty you are paid for. Thats what you don’t want to do.
What a quandry for you. They’re expecting you to record as duty hours the hours they’re paying you ? Don’t let them take a liberty. Tell them you only want paying until you book off at 10pm and you’ll only record untill 10pm as Duty. That way, you’ll lose your extra two hours pay, but your conciense will be straight and you’ll have had no reduced rest. Just keep pushing it some more so every one loses their extra few hours payments, and when they lose it they’ll blame you because you didn;t want a reduced rest. You’ll be the favourite guy in the depot !!!
ok mike I see what you are saying but what happens to salaried drivers then?
one day I might do 15 hours the next I might only do 9, but I am paid the same every day.
Your recorded hours should tally up with your paid hours ? IN this case your employer wants to pay you for more hours than you have actually attended. Many would view that as a perk. You want the perk to extend even more so that you do not have to record a reduced rest period, therby getting even more out of your perk?
OK, so how do we find people who falsify records ? Usually they are paid for more than what they have recorded, thats usually a dead giveaway. Thats what you’re doing. But !!! Hang on, the company want you to record duty time, for the duty you are paid for. Thats what you don’t want to do.
What a quandry for you. They’re expecting you to record as duty hours the hours they’re paying you ? Don’t let them take a liberty. Tell them you only want paying until you book off at 10pm and you’ll only record untill 10pm as Duty. That way, you’ll lose your extra two hours pay, but your conciense will be straight and you’ll have had no reduced rest. Just keep pushing it some more so every one loses their extra few hours payments, and when they lose it they’ll blame you because you didn;t want a reduced rest. You’ll be the favourite guy in the depot !!!
ok mike I see what you are saying but what happens to salaried drivers then?
one day I might do 15 hours the next I might only do 9, but I am paid the same every day.
Thats reflected on your payslip isn’t it ? And also in your contract. There’s no mystery to that. Its plain to see, clear and simple. Its also not a question that is going to arise for a salaried driver. He’s been told to record the hours he’s paid for, wether or not he’s in attendance. POA seems a good option to me, infact the only option i can think of.
Coffeeholic:
You’re supervisor is a ■■■■. Hope that helps.
What is it that makes you think his supervisor is a ■■■■ , wrong mode ? Or something else ?
Because he is telling him something that is completely wrong and claiming VOSA/DVSA want it and encouraging him to create a false record.
Your tacho record should be an accurate account of what you work and it doesn’t have to tally with the hours you are actually paid for. If you are guaranteed a set number of hours and ended up working less the tacho needs to record what you actually worked, not what you are paid for. Same thing can happen in reverse. We see posts from people on here who are salaried for say 50 hours a week and complain they end up working say 55 hours; their tacho has to reflect the 55 hours and not just the 50 they are paid for.
I used to work for the same company the OP is referring to and on the last work I did for them on a night trunk I was guaranteed 9.5 hours per shift, of which 1.5 hours was overtime. Very rarely worked the full 9.5 hours and only ever recorded on the tacho the hours I actually worked and was often back home and in bed while I was still being paid, certainly wasn’t POA as I sure wasn’t able to return to work as I might have had a night cap before turning in. Was never a problem with the company, the analysis people or the authorities.
Coffeeholic:
You’re supervisor is a ■■■■. Hope that helps.
What is it that makes you think his supervisor is a ■■■■ , wrong mode ? Or something else ?
Because he is telling him something that is completely wrong and claiming VOSA/DVSA want it and enncouraging him to create a false record.
Your tacho record should be an accurate account of what you work and it doesn’t have to tally with the hours you are actually paid for. If you are guaranteed a set number of hours and ended up working less the tacho needs to record what you actually worked, not what you are paid for. Same thing can happen in reverse. We see posts from people on here who are salaried for say 50 hours a week and complain they end up working say 55 hours; their tacho has to reflect the 55 hours and not just the 50 they are paid for.
I used to work for the same company the OP is referring to and on the last work I did for them on a night trunk I was guaranteed 9.5 hours per shift, of which 1.5 hours was overtime**. Very rarely worked the full 9.5 hours and only ever recorded on the tacho the hours I actually worked and was often back home and in bed while I was still being paid. Was never a problem with the company, the analysis people or the authorities.**
They’re now asking him to record the hours he’s paid for. What do you suggest? And why is his supervisor a ■■■■ for suggesting he do so ?
With Coffee on this one… the law only says you have to record actual hours worked… if the company want to pay you more than that its non of DVSA’s concern… getting paid for 10 hours shift when your on “job and knock” and finish in 8hours is perfectly legal and there is nowhere that I am aware of in the regulations that states drivers have to account in any way for those extra hours pay.
Yes DVSA may take a long hard look at it to see if its hiding something.
Mike-C:
They’re now asking him to record the hours he’s paid for. What do you suggest? And why is his supervisor a ■■■■ for suggesting he do so ?
I suggest his supervisor is more honest and give the real reason rather than hiding behind some made up rule.
His supervisor is claiming VOSA/DVSA want this and that’s ■■■■■■■■; it’s not in any regulation that they enforce. Therefore he is a liar and a ■■■■. If the supervisor said, “this is what the company want you to do and if we want you to do it then you do so because we pay your wages and if you don’t like it you are free to leave,” then he’s not a ■■■■.
This is the same as firms who come up with stuff and claim it is ‘because of Health and Safety’ when it’s just something someone in the company came up with to justify their title as H&S officer. Those people are also ■■■■■ and there are websites and Facebook pages devoted to that subject, including the actual H&S website who highlight this ■■■■■■■■.
stupid I know