James Bateman2:
The miners version of Thatchers infamous St Francis of Assisi words.
" Thatcher’s Prayer ".
Where there are jobs
May we bring destruction
Where there are communities
May we bring strife
Where there is work
May we bring unemployment
Where there is hope
May we bring despair.
Ain’t that the truth ?
**** her !
James Bateman2 you mast have been living in another part of the world when Mrs T was in power, as far as I can see by reading the comments on this thread it is of the general opinion that she did a lot more good than bad unless you were one of those toss pots who thought the unions would rule this place led by power mad leaders with no brains and there followers with even less brains. The fact of the matter is that if you had run a business during these crazy union driven times as many contributors to this thread were, you would realize your demands on industry could not be met as if they had of been the companies would just have folded with the end result being mass unemployment. Today in this country government need to change the system as this is the reason we are in the position we are in, it is far to easy for people to say there are no jobs and they have become accustomed to just taking from those who are prepared to get off there asses and work and pay there taxes. We should introduce a food voucher system instead of paying out millions willy nilly in dole money and these would only be redeemable for food, not ■■■■ lottery tickets and mobile phones. We take in tax and other contributions from the workers roughly £155 billion and spend about £205 Billion we borrow the difference to make that up, at some point we have to pay that back. In ten years from now if nothing is done this place will be bankrupt with no one to borrow from anymore and I for one will be rejoicing as all the lazy B’s who wont work will starve, praise the lord for a new Maggie to arrive on the scene and PDQ to sort this bloody mess out she did what it said on the tin and we need some one of her calibre again Buzzer.
You know nothing about me pal
I came from an area of the country where the old cows vindictive policies destroyed.I was one of the lucky ones and left and did something else.Many couldn’t leave.
She called good,decent,hard working,law abiding people of this country " the enemy within " aye,that’ll be right,lots of " the enemy within " fought on the beaches of Normandy,Deserts of Africa and other theatres of war against the Nazis.
To hell with her !
^ This.
It’s strange how her supporters all seem to ignore the inconvenient truth of those all important economic figures when the place was supposedly under the control of Thatcher’s ‘enemy within’ during the early 1970’s compared to those same figures ever since her election.The fact is the aims and methods of the trade unions were no different in the early 1970’s to those of 1979.In all cases it was the idea of united action ( which includes secondary action where needed ) to defend jobs and living standards.As for the miners strike of 1984 not being about saving the coal industry the fact is every statement that scargill made about the numbers of coal pits to be closed,many of them with loads of reserves left in them,was proved to be true.
Thatcher was just a raving right winger ( or possibly an undercover commie working for the interests of the Chinese Communist Party ) and the fact that there are some of her supporters who support Hitler and who compare her ideology with that of Hitler,at least in the case of her views concerning trade union action,just like any other despotic leader of any other type of totalitarian regime,says everything about her.Which is why even her own Party had to get rid of her because she proved to be an electoral liability to them.
gingerfold:
Politically I would class myself as one of the so-called “silent majority” and I would like to think that I’m fairly balanced in my viewpoint of politics, able to appreciate conflicting views in any political debate and then form my own opinion. In my time I have voted for both Labour and Tories. The first Prime Minister that I can actually remember was Harold Macmillan, By the time Margaret Thatcher became PM there was a need for radical change in the country. Certain trade unions through their leadership had become too powerful, and I was a union member in the 1970s. Like Carl Williams I have also driven through a secondary picket line (on more than one occasion) to collect materials from a factory not in dispute to deilver to another factory that was also not in dispute. Union power had to be curbed in the 1970s. My family has a long tradition of coal miners on my mother’s side, at least three generations in fact, and a first uncle was badly injured down the pit in pre-nationalisation days. The difference between the 1973 miners’ strike and the 1984 strike was that in '73 the miners, led by the moderate Joe Gormley had a strong and legitimate case for better pay and conditions. Gormley knew just how far to push and handled things brilliantly, calling the strike off when his demands had been met. In '84 miners were well paid and the strike was about proposed closures of loss-making mines. By its very nature coal mining is an industry that leads to pits becoming worked-out. The militant Arthur Scargill chose to take on the NCB and the government. He chose the wrong fight at the wrong time with the wrong opponents, including the “silent majority”. As Neil Kinnock said on TV last week Scargill was a fool. Margaret Thatcher had the guts to tackle the country’s problems and whilst she was divisive, controversial, and got plenty wrong, she got more things right than wrong and transformed the country. In foreign affairs she always put Great Britain’s interests first. She was the towering political figure of my own lifetime.
gingerfold, superbly put, and very much in line with my own thoughts.
What came before her, led to me, and many others no doubt leaving the country to achieve something in their working lives. She gave those who were prepared to work, and achieve, (whatever their background), the opportunity to realise their potential. No other political leader before her ever gave that opportunity.
On the world stage she stood tall, and Britain rose in both status and stature. So often commentators forget the pivotal role she played in the peaceful transition from cold war “east”, to integration of the former Soviet states into Europe.
That she was controversial, no doubt, but some of the vitreolic posts on this well considered thread serve only to demean the actual poster, not the subject. The greatest British peacetime prime minister …yes…(but perhaps some would say Clement Attlee )
Myself I love Mitterands description, “the eyes of Calligua…but the lips of Monroe”!..yes she was head and shoulders above the rest.
Ironically there’s been plenty of people who’ve wanted to and decided to emigrate away from the ruins of the economy which she and those like her have created here.Just like in the case of Reagan that so called peaceful ‘transition’ of the cold war seems to have been all about the transfer of wealth to benefit the leaders of Russia and China at the expense of the Western economies with a few kick backs in the form of cheap labour potential for the western business community.The question is why would anyone who’s supposed to be all about looking after the interests of the country have wanted to do that.
The greatest leader was the one we never had being Peter Shore.
Carryfast:
.As for the miners strike of 1984 not being about saving the coal industry the fact is every statement that scargill made about the numbers of coal pits to be closed,many of them with loads of reserves left in them,was proved to be true.
In 1968 the Labour Government closed the Mosley Common “Super Pit” in the south Lancashire coalfield. It had been redeveloped in 1962 at a cost of £7.5 million (Approximately £150 million in today’s money). Mosley Common was one of the largest pits in the country employing 3,000 people and had proven reserves of 270 million tons of coal, some 100 years of production. It was closed because it could not meet its “unrealistic” production targets. Throughout the history of coal mining pit closures have been commonplace for a variety of reasons and have taken place under Labour and Conservative Governments.
Carryfast:
.As for the miners strike of 1984 not being about saving the coal industry the fact is every statement that scargill made about the numbers of coal pits to be closed,many of them with loads of reserves left in them,was proved to be true.
In 1968 the Labour Government closed the Mosley Common “Super Pit” in the south Lancashire coalfield. It had been redeveloped in 1962 at a cost of £7.5 million (Approximately £150 million in today’s money). Mosley Common was one of the largest pits in the country employing 3,000 people and had proven reserves of 270 million tons of coal, some 100 years of production. It was closed because it could not meet its “unrealistic” production targets. Throughout the history of coal mining pit closures have been commonplace for a variety of reasons and have taken place under Labour and Conservative Governments.
Peter Shore…you cannot be serious.
What we need/ed is protectionist policies in favour of domestic industry which obviously means/t withdrawal from the EU and taking no part in the global free market economy and an understanding of basic economics.Sounds like Shore not Wilson or Callaghan to me.
hey to all, gentlemen you are good on the way to exceed the BEST ERGO tread,thanks to CF .
That’s in a humans thoughts.
If I am an employer, I want cheap hard working employees who never moan.
If I am an employee, I want a good payed easy job an a never moaning boss.
If I am a civilian, I want quick,good and cheap craftsmen to repair my house.
If I sell I can’t ask never enough if I buy isomething it is always too expencive.
As civilians we have never had good politicians they are always increasing taxations
As a politician I think civilians have more as enough.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
The best coaches are in the sands.
Here I can speak from experience :
When I was on OHS Transport I went to the Midlands car factory that was under the union hammer of “Red Robbo”.
I duly reported and explained that I’d come to load body panels for Izmir Turkey. I was asked to wait and in due time two union officials arrived and after discussing a few things between them I was duly informed I would not be getting loaded then or any time in future.
After numerous conversations I found out that the “union” didn’t agree with drivers [who if in a union would have been a different one to car workers] having to live in sleeper cabs. I pointed out that I’d be travelling through a selection of countries including West & East Germany, Czec Republic, Bulgaria to name just a few. Their response was that I should arrange overnight accomodation en route…
As a matter of recorded history Harold Wilsons two terms in goverment saw more coal mines closed than during Lady Thatchers three goverment terms. If you don’t believe it just Google it. When contributors write “the miners strike” I think this is wrong as the Nottinghamshire miners refused to strike as there was not a ballot taken as their union rules required.
Not only were truck drivers attacked by striking coal miners – a taxi driver in Wales was killed when a paving slab was thrown from a bridge on the M4 simply because he was or had been transporting miners to & fro work.
Lady Thatcher closed Liverpool Docks ? Don’t think so – they closed for the same reason as London Docks – goods are now transported in containers!!
One thing always eluded me though : if the Yorkshire mines were so profitable and there were so many miners willing to work – why didn’t Tony & New Labour re-open them?
You seem to forget that Britain is still one of the largest exporters in the world.
Your ‘protectionist’ policies would wreck that and put tens of thousands out of work at a stroke.
Back to the drawing board!
And you seem to forget that we are in the situation of having a massive trade deficit in energy and manufactured goods that we we didn’t have before becoming a member of the EEC/EU and getting involved with the global free market economy.With all the implications of that regards the unemployment figures,tax revenues,income levels,spending power in the domestic economy,economic growth, balance of payments and debt levels and value of the currency in real terms.We’ve also got a situation whereby British jobs aren’t guaranteed for British workers and therefore even more oversupply of the labour market,thereby resulting in wage levels lagging behind prices and resulting collapse in economic growth.
My protectionist policies would create more jobs in the domestic economy,supplying the domestic economy,than the few jobs that might arguably be lost in the so called ‘large’ ( actually relatively small ) export sector.Which is why all those so called thousands of jobs seeem to be making no difference whatsoever to the country’s overall economic figures.
In other words we’ve got more to gain by withdrawal from the EU and the global free market economy than we have to lose.
Except,of course,for those few in the business community who are profitting from the situation of cheap labour opportunities by the export of jobs through import of cheaply made goods and the importation of cheap labour by way of an open door immigration policy,in addition to the general oversupply of the labour market through closure of massive swathes of British industry since Thatcher came to power.
Big Leggy:
One thing always eluded me though : if the Yorkshire mines were so profitable and there were so many miners willing to work – why didn’t Tony & New Labour re-open them?
What makes you think that there has ever been any large difference between the policies of most so called Labour politicians compared to those of the Tories. History shows that it’s the same lot calling themselves a different name.Although in the case of Blair probably more of a Thatcherite in his ideology than the rest.
Big Leggy:
One thing always eluded me though : if the Yorkshire mines were so profitable and there were so many miners willing to work – why didn’t Tony & New Labour re-open them?
You can’t is the simple answer!
Once closed they stay closed. Unless preventative maintenance is continued (the mine is “mothballed”) then the cost of re-opening is prohibitive.
A shame that a little forward thinking was lacking given that the UK has, according to this ukcoal.com/why-coal/need-for … statistics, approx 3000 million tonnes of coal reserves which are probably lost forever due to the cost of starting a new mine/no-one wants opencast in their vicinity.
Big Leggy:
One thing always eluded me though : if the Yorkshire mines were so profitable and there were so many miners willing to work – why didn’t Tony & New Labour re-open them?
You can’t is the simple answer!
Once closed they stay closed. Unless preventative maintenance is continued (the mine is “mothballed”) then the cost of re-opening is prohibitive.
A shame that a little forward thinking was lacking given that the UK has, according to this ukcoal.com/why-coal/need-for … statistics, approx 3000 million tonnes of coal reserves which are probably lost forever due to the cost of starting a new mine/no-one wants opencast in their vicinity.
Her policy of withdrawal of maintenance and sealing of mines with large reserves,thereby obviously making the country dependent in large part on Russian coal ( and increasingly gas ) imports in the medium-long term,seems to raise the question as to exactly what was on the table and who really gained from those ‘negotiations’ between her and Gorbachev in regards to ending the ‘cold war’.
It seems to me that the stakes concerning Britain’s economic future and energy security makes the cost of re opening the closed mines one which might just have to be accepted.While being just another nail in the arguments that those who continue to support her ideas and the flawed idea that she was one of Britain’s greatest leaders.When the facts show that,together with Reagan,she was in fact working for outside foreign interests in this case one so called ex Communist country now run by an ex KGB operative and the Chinese Communist Party.
Hello Carl…no they cannot gain admission to the secure unit that houses him! And of course his therapists are encouraging him in his personal task of rewriting history in all of its aspects!
I can only feel pity for someone so bitter, it must be a very heavy load indeed.
The Deeres full of cherry, so away for a long night , but the Barn Owls are about, and that sight is magnificent!
tiptop495:
hey to all, gentlemen you are good on the way to exceed the BEST ERGO tread,thanks to CF .
That’s in a humans thoughts.
If I am an employer, I want cheap hard working employees who never moan.
It every employer thinks the same then you’ve got loads of low paid workers who can’t pay or won’t pay for what all those employers are producing.It is possible to find such workers in totalitarian regimes like China.In which case your own workers won’t just have not enough money to buy your products they won’t have any money at all in addition to creating an unsustainable trade deficit.
Saviem:
Hello Carl…no they cannot gain admission to the secure unit that houses him! And of course his therapists are encouraging him in his personal task of rewriting history in all of its aspects!
So you’re saying that since Thatcher’s election the economy was and remains in much better shape than it was in 1972 .
.