Maggie (Not Deutz)

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
81

AlexWignall:

Carryfast:

short walk:
Arriving back in Gus in july '82 my dad said domething like, ‘you’ve done your bit for Queen and Country then’ to which I apparantly replied No dad, I think most of us were doing it for Maggie! She got most of what she did right and certainly that bit. RIP MT

Meanwhile the real enemy in the Chinese and North Korean military gets ever stronger on the money earn’t from it’s exports in the global free market economy which Thatcher and Reagan sold us out to while the British and US Forces get ever weaker because of defence cuts caused by the loss of British industry and lack of economic growth.What goes around comes around eventually.Which is probably why the Tory tossers don’t seem quite so keen in facing down a real threat that’s a bit stronger than a few Spanish conscripts.No surprise considering the possibility of British troops in Police uniforms knocking zb out of their fellow countrymen just for trying to defend their living standards in 1984 and the fact that British troops did exactly that in 1926. :unamused:

Ah North Korea, Socialism has turned out well for them…

W

I was actually referring to the highly unionised US economy of the 1960’s. :unamused:

82

It`s now 2013 not 1972.The country was in the black when Blair took over and Brown sold all the gold.We are again paying for incompetance,incapable people leading,labour again.Lets dig ourselves out of the c–p they have left again.

Carryfast:

richgriff:

ramone:

Carryfast:

richgriff:
Agree with you Buzzer sir.This country was born on the back of hard work.As most who have run and still run a business,the employees are an integral part of its success.Unfortunatly union leadership tend not to recognise this,our goals as employers are the goals of our employees.Im sure if they had understood this they would have taken over the mining industry and made a success of it.Tower Colliery miners put there redundancy, into there mine and became part of the open market,the same as the haulage industry.Guess what.They made it work and made money.This is fact,Harold Wilson PM 1965-1970 closed 211 mines.Margaret Thatcher PM 1979-1990 closed 154 mines. Labour closed more mines in 5yrs than she did in 11yrs.A woman leading a man`s world.No wonder the unions and labour through all their toys out of the pram.

BS.This country would be where it was in the 1920’s/30’s if wasn’t for the efforts of British trade unions over the years.Which probably explains the present state of it’s economy.You still seem to be missing the point that,just like her sidekick Reagan,she won and smashed the power of the unions so where’s the promised land.

Have you taken your medicine today Carryfast you seem to be getting a little ratty
[/quote Unfortunatly carryfast, if companies didnt exist employment and wealth would not be created. You seem to be living in the 18th century.Unions have there place in history. We are a democracy,in which Margaret Thatcher realised we needed to be streamlined and released from the unwielding useless motives of unions.They need to realise that todays Britain is a far better to work and live because of her.Red Robbo, Scargill and today Bob Crow living on the backs of the a regulated industry that should work in a free market.Buzzer and many other hauliers exist today because of service,reliability,great relations with customers,more importantly great empathy with there employees.Thats what builds business and a country, not unions.

I think you need to check out those economic figures as they were where the economy stood in 1972 as to where it stands now.Although it’s obvious that anyone with a Tory view of economics wouldn’t understand the importance of figures like economic growth,trade deficits,balance of payments and resulting national debts,and the value of the pound v hard currencies like the Swiss Franc.

But what can you expect from a shop keepers daughter and her followers like Osborne who wouldn’t understand all that and the connection to a country’s industrial strength including strong unions keeping wage levels high enough to keep spending power and disposable incomes high. :unamused:

83

richgriff:
It`s now 2013 not 1972.The country was in the black when Blair took over and Brown sold all the gold.We are again paying for incompetance,incapable people leading,labour again.Lets dig ourselves out of the c–p they have left again.

It all depends on your definition of in the black.Compared to the highly unionised industrialised economy as it stood in 1972 the place has been a joke ever since Thatcher,with a bit of help from Heath and Callaghan before her,destroyed the country’s industrial base and the strength of it’s unions.Thereby causing the situation of high supply and low demand in the labour market and the loss of the ability of unions to keep wage levels ahead of prices.Blair and Brown were just following on with the inevitable results of those economics of the madhouse.

How are you going to dig yourself out of the crap which those governments and every government since has put us in when you’re in the perfect storm of now being a net importer of energy and manufactured goods with a trade deficit to match a currency that’s on it’s knees,and with wage levels lagging behind prices,resulting in loss of disposable incomes and flat lining economic growth.Mostly all the result of years of being run by a shop keeper’s daughter who tried to run the country like a corner shop instead of a developed modern industrialised country.Just like her crony Reagan did to the US.What can you expect from a not very good film star made president with previous documented communist tendencies. :unamused:

84

Terribly sorry Carryfast.Have you ever any experience of running a business? You Sir do not understand simple economic demands.We`ve had 13 years of a labour government and nothing has changed.Thatcherite labour.■■

Carryfast:

richgriff:
It`s now 2013 not 1972.The country was in the black when Blair took over and Brown sold all the gold.We are again paying for incompetance,incapable people leading,labour again.Lets dig ourselves out of the c–p they have left again.

It all depends on your definition of in the black.Compared to the highly unionised industrialised economy as it stood in 1972 the place has been a joke ever since Thatcher,with a bit of help from Heath and Callaghan before her,destroyed the country’s industrial base and the strength of it’s unions.Thereby causing the situation of high supply and low demand in the labour market and the loss of the ability of unions to keep wage levels ahead of prices.Blair and Brown were just following on with the inevitable results of those economics of the madhouse.

How are you going to dig yourself out of the crap which those governments and every government since has put us in when you’re in the perfect storm of now being a net importer of energy and manufactured goods with a trade deficit to match a currency that’s on it’s knees,and with wage levels lagging behind prices,resulting in loss of disposable incomes and flat lining economic growth.Mostly all the result of years of being run by a shop keeper’s daughter who tried to run the country like a corner shop instead of a developed modern industrialised country.Just like her crony Reagan did to the US.What can you expect from a not very good film star made president with previous documented communist tendencies. :unamused:

85

Very interesting debate and while I’m not going to get in to it tonight as it’s late, just 3 things I have to comment on, someone suggested it was Maggie who shut Liverpool docks, the only people who closed that place was the lazy, shysters that worked their, I think any driver who went in there in the 60’s /70’s would know what I mean!! 2, I think it was Cavlad who said that Mrs T said Mandela was a terrorist, well Cavlad, HE WAS!! still can’t understand to this day why this man is held in such high esteem. Carlc, the unions had got too big for their boots, anyone who’s been involved with it will have seen the intimidation that goes on, and by the way I have been a shop steward in the car delivery business, which was pretty closed shop at one time. Did I support Maggie, damm right I did.

86

richgriff:
Terribly sorry Carryfast.Have you ever any experience of running a business? You Sir do not understand simple economic demands.We`ve had 13 years of a labour government and nothing has changed.Thatcherite labour.■■

Carryfast:

richgriff:
It`s now 2013 not 1972.The country was in the black when Blair took over and Brown sold all the gold.We are again paying for incompetance,incapable people leading,labour again.Lets dig ourselves out of the c–p they have left again.

It all depends on your definition of in the black.Compared to the highly unionised industrialised economy as it stood in 1972 the place has been a joke ever since Thatcher,with a bit of help from Heath and Callaghan before her,destroyed the country’s industrial base and the strength of it’s unions.Thereby causing the situation of high supply and low demand in the labour market and the loss of the ability of unions to keep wage levels ahead of prices.Blair and Brown were just following on with the inevitable results of those economics of the madhouse.

How are you going to dig yourself out of the crap which those governments and every government since has put us in when you’re in the perfect storm of now being a net importer of energy and manufactured goods with a trade deficit to match a currency that’s on it’s knees,and with wage levels lagging behind prices,resulting in loss of disposable incomes and flat lining economic growth.Mostly all the result of years of being run by a shop keeper’s daughter who tried to run the country like a corner shop instead of a developed modern industrialised country.Just like her crony Reagan did to the US.What can you expect from a not very good film star made president with previous documented communist tendencies. :unamused:

Blimey so after referring to all those criterea and having given you the reasons as to how,and why,the comparison between the heavily unionised, industrialised ,British economy of the early 1970’s,was lightyears ahead of the wreckage which has been left of it since Thatcher’s administration,you’ve then said that it’s me who doesn’t understand basic economics.That’s assuming you’ve even bothered to check out the relevant figures and can understand them. :open_mouth: :unamused: :laughing:

As I’ve said I think even the average worker in any of those industries around the time would know more about economics,as they apply in the case of a modern industrialised economy,and what it takes to keep it moving,than the shopkeeper’s daughter who tried to apply her ideas of the economics of running a corner shop to it instead.The results of which are still with us and getting worse all the time with a miracle needed to get the place back on track now. :unamused:

87

Lilladan:
The Left spend everything , then the right have tough measures to built back up again , the left spend it all again , the unions had to be smashed up , used to have a point , then lost the plot , lorry drivers were [zb] to many steel , coal , dockers , large factories , IRA only wanted to talk after the great Maggie gave them some of thier own medicine , they blow up kids shopping in warrington but did not want to fight real men in thier war , its not 10 millon for her funeral (properganda) but to the left ten milloin is a drop in the sea to what they would dish out to folk to lazy to work , rasist left pay Englander to sit on arse ,but let pole do low paid job , why is her polises not reversed ■■? answer that , Hitler wanted the working man to be paid well and have a house land .car , holidays , he sorted out greedy bankers and companies , and put much money into medical reserch , they put a man on the moon (■■■■ werner Von Broun ) for USA with rockets ect ,had flying saucers in 1940s ! they WOULD have beat cancer before now , but the left would say even that was wrong !!!!!!!! remember only beaten by being outnumbered FOUR TO ONE , the ■■■■s had a high speed truck for the autobahns , but was not possible for the human driver to take the speed ,

:open_mouth:

It looks like Thatcher will be in good company with her own type of people where she’s gone then.I’m sure that she and her supporters will be glad of the support of those with views like yours. :unamused: :imp:

So in your world you wouldn’t be able to understand the idea of someone like me who supports the so called right,by not agreeing with the integration of different ethnic groups,but having said that also supports the so called left by not agreeing with hurting people because they are different and have different cultures ( Multiculturalism ) and who would have happily wiped out a whole regiment of ■■■■ scum given the weapons to do the job just as my Grandfather and Father contributed to doing in WW2.Or someone who supports the so called right in standing against the politics of envy in the form of socialism or communism but who also supports the so called left in the form of support for trade union action to defend workers rights and terms and conditions and to increase living standards.

None of which seems to me like the average brainwashed Hitler supporting German ■■■■ scum who was happy to do whatever the Fuhrer ordered him to do all for a few Reichsmarks and a the possibility of a zb Volkswagen Beetle and maybe a State provided house or flat if he was lucky.Although the so called right wing Thatcher and her cronies might well have understood exactly what it is that you’re saying just like the so called left wing Stalin did before Hitler turned against him.

As for the Irish problem that existed long before Thatcher was even born.The Irish problem isn’t as black and white as the propaganda makes out with wrong often done by all sides including the British as in the case of one of my ancestors who was shot by the British forces at the age of 16 for no good reason and who was one of the older siblings looking after the family at the time with a terminally ill mother and a dead father.The result being the breakup of the family which mostly fled to America with the exception of my Grandmother who was brought here as a child by a surviving relative.Where she eventually married my English Grandfather who was serving in the British Army both before and after the start of WW2 in which he was lucky enough to help in sending plenty of Hitler’s army on their way to where they belonged fighting in Europe from the Normandy Beaches into Germany.I think he was a real man who wasn’t that sympathetic to the anti Irish so called right wing cause.Of which no surprise Thatcher seems to have been a supporter of.

As for British engineering v German the Spitfire was all we needed and everything else like the Molins guns that my Dad was helping to make from the age of 14 until he was called up was just a bonus.

As for the Nazis contribution to medical research suggest you check out the contribution of Dr Mengele. :imp:

88

Buzzer:
Hi Jazzandy I think Maggie was great for this country love her or hate her she was not afraid to stand her ground and my god we need some one with qualities and vigour like hers today, all these protests by mostly youngsters who were not even born when she ruled is sad if they wanted to protest about her why did they not do it when she was alive. I have been in the haulage business most of my life and handed on to my boys it is a tough game to be in and I know what its like to work hard for little return, our state of affairs today leave something to be desired is it not time we cut the welfare system and just give out food vouchers instead, there would be no ■■■■ and mobile phones etc for those not working and before any one starts saying there is no work what are all these Europeans doing, they want to work and they do maybe not there ideal job and not for the money they want but they work. The system is to blame and we cannot carry on borrowing to pay this debt as at some point it has to be repaid and I feel if the country was a business surely it would fail, no ordinary business could get the finance to carry on like the government does. I personally think the ones that are paying taxes should revolt and with hold monies until there is change but unfortunately I cant see that happening any time soon. Surely there are like minded people out there but are we all to busy trying to make our respective companies viable in difficult trading times I fear so, perhaps if the country was run by like minded people to me it would be a better place to be right now, If you are sick you need the medicine so lets take it, cheers Buzzer.

Nicely written Buzzer.

Whilst I do not agree with all of her policies and decisions, the fact remains that Mrs Thatcher did some very good work also. There seemed to be a notion in the 1960’s & 1970’s that Communism/Marxism was the way to go. That thinking financially broke the countries that signed up to it. Mrs. Thatcher was a strong leader who, finacially, turned it around for the UK.

As a significant taxpayer all of my life, I still have to buy and pay for my vehicles, property etc… I would sincerely love free/heavily subsidised housing /property from the Goverment/Local Authority and perhaps money for the days when we are slack of work etc, in return for the millions I have paid in over the years, but it doesn’t work that way.

It is interesting to see the few who turned up to protest at her funeral seem to be younger than when Mrs.Thatcher reigned, or at least were very young at the time. Furthermore, I wonder how many of them had any meaningful job to go to…or if they had would they put as much effort into it. Or perhaps, as i think when I frequently pay my taxes, ‘am I paying to support that aswell?’

Leaders like her are rarer today in this world of hype driven ‘stage politics’. A character like that is always needed for the tougher jobs. She did get a few wrong though, and that is where someone with better negotiating skills would have made her intransigence more palatable.

89

Please leave Hitler out of this thread. Apart from that post which I hope will be removed I’m enjoying this reasoned discussion with good points being made on both sides.

What I do not like is the descent into misogyny which have disfigured the discussions on Facebook etc.

90

Politically I would class myself as one of the so-called “silent majority” and I would like to think that I’m fairly balanced in my viewpoint of politics, able to appreciate conflicting views in any political debate and then form my own opinion. In my time I have voted for both Labour and Tories. The first Prime Minister that I can actually remember was Harold Macmillan, By the time Margaret Thatcher became PM there was a need for radical change in the country. Certain trade unions through their leadership had become too powerful, and I was a union member in the 1970s. Like Carl Williams I have also driven through a secondary picket line (on more than one occasion) to collect materials from a factory not in dispute to deilver to another factory that was also not in dispute. Union power had to be curbed in the 1970s. My family has a long tradition of coal miners on my mother’s side, at least three generations in fact, and a first uncle was badly injured down the pit in pre-nationalisation days. The difference between the 1973 miners’ strike and the 1984 strike was that in '73 the miners, led by the moderate Joe Gormley had a strong and legitimate case for better pay and conditions. Gormley knew just how far to push and handled things brilliantly, calling the strike off when his demands had been met. In '84 miners were well paid and the strike was about proposed closures of loss-making mines. By its very nature coal mining is an industry that leads to pits becoming worked-out. The militant Arthur Scargill chose to take on the NCB and the government. He chose the wrong fight at the wrong time with the wrong opponents, including the “silent majority”. As Neil Kinnock said on TV last week Scargill was a fool. Margaret Thatcher had the guts to tackle the country’s problems and whilst she was divisive, controversial, and got plenty wrong, she got more things right than wrong and transformed the country. In foreign affairs she always put Great Britain’s interests first. She was the towering political figure of my own lifetime.

91

gingerfold:
Politically I would class myself as one of the so-called “silent majority” and I would like to think that I’m fairly balanced in my viewpoint of politics, able to appreciate conflicting views in any political debate and then form my own opinion. In my time I have voted for both Labour and Tories. The first Prime Minister that I can actually remember was Harold Macmillan, By the time Margaret Thatcher became PM there was a need for radical change in the country. Certain trade unions through their leadership had become too powerful, and I was a union member in the 1970s. Like Carl Williams I have also driven through a secondary picket line (on more than one occasion) to collect materials from a factory not in dispute to deilver to another factory that was also not in dispute. Union power had to be curbed in the 1970s. My family has a long tradition of coal miners on my mother’s side, at least three generations in fact, and a first uncle was badly injured down the pit in pre-nationalisation days. The difference between the 1973 miners’ strike and the 1984 strike was that in '73 the miners, led by the moderate Joe Gormley had a strong and legitimate case for better pay and conditions. Gormley knew just how far to push and handled things brilliantly, calling the strike off when his demands had been met. In '84 miners were well paid and the strike was about proposed closures of loss-making mines. By its very nature coal mining is an industry that leads to pits becoming worked-out. The militant Arthur Scargill chose to take on the NCB and the government. He chose the wrong fight at the wrong time with the wrong opponents, including the “silent majority”. As Neil Kinnock said on TV last week Scargill was a fool. Margaret Thatcher had the guts to tackle the country’s problems and whilst she was divisive, controversial, and got plenty wrong, she got more things right than wrong and transformed the country. In foreign affairs she always put Great Britain’s interests first. She was the towering political figure of my own lifetime.

Well reasoned Gingerfold.

David

92

The miners version of Thatchers infamous St Francis of Assisi words.

" Thatcher’s Prayer ".
Where there are jobs
May we bring destruction
Where there are communities
May we bring strife
Where there is work
May we bring unemployment
Where there is hope
May we bring despair.

Ain’t that the truth ?

**** her !

93

James Bateman2:
The miners version of Thatchers infamous St Francis of Assisi words.

" Thatcher’s Prayer ".
Where there are jobs
May we bring destruction
Where there are communities
May we bring strife
Where there is work
May we bring unemployment
Where there is hope
May we bring despair.

Ain’t that the truth ?

**** her !

James Bateman2 you mast have been living in another part of the world when Mrs T was in power, as far as I can see by reading the comments on this thread it is of the general opinion that she did a lot more good than bad unless you were one of those toss pots who thought the unions would rule this place led by power mad leaders with no brains and there followers with even less brains. The fact of the matter is that if you had run a business during these crazy union driven times as many contributors to this thread were, you would realize your demands on industry could not be met as if they had of been the companies would just have folded with the end result being mass unemployment. Today in this country government need to change the system as this is the reason we are in the position we are in, it is far to easy for people to say there are no jobs and they have become accustomed to just taking from those who are prepared to get off there asses and work and pay there taxes. We should introduce a food voucher system instead of paying out millions willy nilly in dole money and these would only be redeemable for food, not ■■■■ lottery tickets and mobile phones. We take in tax and other contributions from the workers roughly £155 billion and spend about £205 Billion we borrow the difference to make that up, at some point we have to pay that back. In ten years from now if nothing is done this place will be bankrupt with no one to borrow from anymore and I for one will be rejoicing as all the lazy B’s who wont work will starve, praise the lord for a new Maggie to arrive on the scene and PDQ to sort this bloody mess out she did what it said on the tin and we need some one of her calibre again Buzzer.

94

James Bateman2:
The miners version of Thatchers infamous St Francis of Assisi words.

" Thatcher’s Prayer ".
Where there are jobs
May we bring destruction
Where there are communities
May we bring strife
Where there is work
May we bring unemployment
Where there is hope
May we bring despair.

Ain’t that the truth ?

**** her !

No,its far from the truth,what a blinkered life you must have led!

David

95

5thwheel:

gingerfold:
Politically I would class myself as one of the so-called “silent majority” and I would like to think that I’m fairly balanced in my viewpoint of politics, able to appreciate conflicting views in any political debate and then form my own opinion. In my time I have voted for both Labour and Tories. The first Prime Minister that I can actually remember was Harold Macmillan, By the time Margaret Thatcher became PM there was a need for radical change in the country. Certain trade unions through their leadership had become too powerful, and I was a union member in the 1970s. Like Carl Williams I have also driven through a secondary picket line (on more than one occasion) to collect materials from a factory not in dispute to deilver to another factory that was also not in dispute. Union power had to be curbed in the 1970s. My family has a long tradition of coal miners on my mother’s side, at least three generations in fact, and a first uncle was badly injured down the pit in pre-nationalisation days. The difference between the 1973 miners’ strike and the 1984 strike was that in '73 the miners, led by the moderate Joe Gormley had a strong and legitimate case for better pay and conditions. Gormley knew just how far to push and handled things brilliantly, calling the strike off when his demands had been met. In '84 miners were well paid and the strike was about proposed closures of loss-making mines. By its very nature coal mining is an industry that leads to pits becoming worked-out. The militant Arthur Scargill chose to take on the NCB and the government. He chose the wrong fight at the wrong time with the wrong opponents, including the “silent majority”. As Neil Kinnock said on TV last week Scargill was a fool. Margaret Thatcher had the guts to tackle the country’s problems and whilst she was divisive, controversial, and got plenty wrong, she got more things right than wrong and transformed the country. In foreign affairs she always put Great Britain’s interests first. She was the towering political figure of my own lifetime.

Well reasoned Gingerfold.

David

Hi

I too totally agree.
I have only once in my life voted, as in my part of the county it’s pointless as we are represented by people who neither have the intelligence or commitment to think for themselves, and follow indoctrination that has been driven into them within their lifetime. That is why the North East is run down compared with other areas of the country. We want people who are determined to think carefully, speak their mind, and not blindly follow party politics no matter which party they represent and fight for their constituents and see that their part of the country is not ignored, and most of all determined. Margaret Thatcher had these qualities. I listen to so called politicians who live in the past and are content to call her for closing the pits. Yesterday’s men, but not as they never even represented yesterday. Although in the past I have had to go to Easington from time to time and watching that fool who claims to be their MP ad seeing photos I certainly never would wish to go again. Who do you blame Mr MP, Margaret Thatcher. No look in the mirror
Carl

96

Buzzer:

James Bateman2:
The miners version of Thatchers infamous St Francis of Assisi words.

" Thatcher’s Prayer ".
Where there are jobs
May we bring destruction
Where there are communities
May we bring strife
Where there is work
May we bring unemployment
Where there is hope
May we bring despair.

Ain’t that the truth ?

**** her !

James Bateman2 you mast have been living in another part of the world when Mrs T was in power, as far as I can see by reading the comments on this thread it is of the general opinion that she did a lot more good than bad unless you were one of those toss pots who thought the unions would rule this place led by power mad leaders with no brains and there followers with even less brains. The fact of the matter is that if you had run a business during these crazy union driven times as many contributors to this thread were, you would realize your demands on industry could not be met as if they had of been the companies would just have folded with the end result being mass unemployment. Today in this country government need to change the system as this is the reason we are in the position we are in, it is far to easy for people to say there are no jobs and they have become accustomed to just taking from those who are prepared to get off there asses and work and pay there taxes. We should introduce a food voucher system instead of paying out millions willy nilly in dole money and these would only be redeemable for food, not ■■■■ lottery tickets and mobile phones. We take in tax and other contributions from the workers roughly £155 billion and spend about £205 Billion we borrow the difference to make that up, at some point we have to pay that back. In ten years from now if nothing is done this place will be bankrupt with no one to borrow from anymore and I for one will be rejoicing as all the lazy B’s who wont work will starve, praise the lord for a new Maggie to arrive on the scene and PDQ to sort this bloody mess out she did what it said on the tin and we need some one of her calibre again Buzzer.

You know nothing about me pal :unamused:

I came from an area of the country where the old cows vindictive policies destroyed.I was one of the lucky ones and left and did something else.Many couldn’t leave.
She called good,decent,hard working,law abiding people of this country " the enemy within " aye,that’ll be right,lots of " the enemy within " fought on the beaches of Normandy,Deserts of Africa and other theatres of war against the Nazis.
To hell with her !

97

gingerfold:
Politically I would class myself as one of the so-called “silent majority” and I would like to think that I’m fairly balanced in my viewpoint of politics, able to appreciate conflicting views in any political debate and then form my own opinion. In my time I have voted for both Labour and Tories. The first Prime Minister that I can actually remember was Harold Macmillan, By the time Margaret Thatcher became PM there was a need for radical change in the country. Certain trade unions through their leadership had become too powerful, and I was a union member in the 1970s. Like Carl Williams I have also driven through a secondary picket line (on more than one occasion) to collect materials from a factory not in dispute to deilver to another factory that was also not in dispute. Union power had to be curbed in the 1970s. My family has a long tradition of coal miners on my mother’s side, at least three generations in fact, and a first uncle was badly injured down the pit in pre-nationalisation days. The difference between the 1973 miners’ strike and the 1984 strike was that in '73 the miners, led by the moderate Joe Gormley had a strong and legitimate case for better pay and conditions. Gormley knew just how far to push and handled things brilliantly, calling the strike off when his demands had been met. In '84 miners were well paid and the strike was about proposed closures of loss-making mines. By its very nature coal mining is an industry that leads to pits becoming worked-out. The militant Arthur Scargill chose to take on the NCB and the government. He chose the wrong fight at the wrong time with the wrong opponents, including the “silent majority”. As Neil Kinnock said on TV last week Scargill was a fool. Margaret Thatcher had the guts to tackle the country’s problems and whilst she was divisive, controversial, and got plenty wrong, she got more things right than wrong and transformed the country. In foreign affairs she always put Great Britain’s interests first. She was the towering political figure of my own lifetime.

gingerfold, superbly put, and very much in line with my own thoughts.
What came before her, led to me, and many others no doubt leaving the country to achieve something in their working lives. She gave those who were prepared to work, and achieve, (whatever their background), the opportunity to realise their potential. No other political leader before her ever gave that opportunity.
On the world stage she stood tall, and Britain rose in both status and stature. So often commentators forget the pivotal role she played in the peaceful transition from cold war “east”, to integration of the former Soviet states into Europe.
That she was controversial, no doubt, but some of the vitreolic posts on this well considered thread serve only to demean the actual poster, not the subject. The greatest British peacetime prime minister …yes…(but perhaps some would say Clement Attlee )
Myself I love Mitterands description, “the eyes of Calligua…but the lips of Monroe”!..yes she was head and shoulders above the rest.

98

Although I didn’t agree with most of her policies I am forced to admit that she was, in my opinion, the strongest PM since Churchill.
If only she had been brought up a socialist!

99

Thank the Lord Saviem for a moment I thought you may have gone away on vacation but you have broken your silence, but we have not heard from Bewick and I am waiting with baited breath to see what he thought of Mrs T, cheers Buzzer.

100

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