While we can all only speculate on what happened its blindingly obvious from the damage the minibus was either stationary or moving very slowly, the rear of the bus has been caved in by a good 6ft and its been thrown 100yds or so across the sliproad.
Is there normally standing traffic at that point mid morning? The minibus possibly missing the junction & braking heavily is plausable, off that junction is an Outlet Village and restaurants, lunchtime shop and eat maybe?
You would think if there was standing traffic on the slip road exit or on the motorway ahead of the mini bus other vehicles would have been hit also.
Hiya …its true. i would think we’ll never know the outcome…maybe it’ll hit the headlines if the lorry driver
is guilty(i’am not saying that)it will say he’s been given a sentence.
remember the red scania that hit the rail bridge on the M180 (i think) did the chap recover/ get his job back/
did he retire we never got to know. i would have been intrested, i know that was’nt a fatal issue.
John
FarnboroughBoy11:
I just hope all the final details are released but as ive said before, the full investigation on fatals like this are never usually released are they? They are reported but i mean i want to see a full thorough investigation made public like the same one that is presented in front of the coroner.
I agree with you. You can look up on the internet the results of investigations into ship and aeroplane accidents, but not road accidents.
(I read a very interesting report on how the Irish sea ferry Riverdance came to end up on its side on the beach at Cleveleys).
Incidentally I notice Mandy Robinson is back out driving again. A blinged up 580 Scania. On her Facebook page she talks about eating a pot noodle whilst driving on the M6!
Carryfast:
ajt:
There was a crash for cash scam some of you might have seen on the national news month or two back where the scammers locked on the brakes on a motorway and a woman rammed into the back of their car. A following van unconnected to the incident then ploughed into the back of the woman killing her. He ended up doing a 12 month stretch for careless driving.Its common knowledge the one who ram’s the rear is traditionally to blame but there seems to be a culture now where no matter what the circumstance, ie someone locking up the brakes or who blatantly contributes heavily to someone shunting them still makes the rear driver at fault. IMO that is harsh as per above example.
Would be very surprised if the mini bus driver didn’t end up being charged with something unless he was the last in a static queue of traffic which sounds doubtful as there would be other vehicles involved. The trucker will almost certainly be charged with careless probably dangerous purely down to him being the one who rammed.
There’s a big difference between running into a vehicle that’s travelling or stopped ahead,regardless of what it stopped for,as opposed to running into a vehicle that’s made an unsafe lane change at a point and/or at a speed differential which makes a collision inevitable.If what you’re saying is correct then anyone could change lanes or enter a motorway from a slip road or a hard shoulder without bothering to use their mirrors or accelerate up to a safe speed,because any accident involving being hit from behind would be the fault of the driver who ran into the vehicle in front.
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.
nickyboy:
While we can all only speculate on what happened its blindingly obvious from the damage the minibus was either stationary or moving very slowly, the rear of the bus has been caved in by a good 6ft and its been thrown 100yds or so across the sliproad.Is there normally standing traffic at that point mid morning? The minibus possibly missing the junction & braking heavily is plausable, off that junction is an Outlet Village and restaurants, lunchtime shop and eat maybe?
Exactly right we can only speculate on this tragic event.Even if the minibus was going slowly for whatever reason no vehicle should hit it with the impact that has caused so much damage.
If in normal circumstances you see a slow moving vehicle you slow down or change lane.
Again pure speculation but I would suspect the usual scenario of vehicles huddled far too close together not giving any room for any errors.
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.
Sorry do not agree.If a vehicle keeps a safe distance at all times it would be highly unlikely or very unusual circumstances where an accident would occur.
Unfortunately nowadays a lot of drivers perception of a safe distance is way off.
albion1971:
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.Sorry do not agree.If a vehicle keeps a safe distance at all times it would be highly unlikely or very unusual circumstances where an accident would occur.
Unfortunately nowadays a lot of drivers perception of a safe distance is way off.
Yeah agree, most people travel too close but you can’t expect drivers to be forward faced tunnel visioned all the time. A glance in the mirror, a vehicle suddenly changing lanes cutting in and locking on the brakes is all it needs.
A drivers actions in front has a massive bearing on what happens behind regardless of safe distances.
ajt:
albion1971:
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.Sorry do not agree.If a vehicle keeps a safe distance at all times it would be highly unlikely or very unusual circumstances where an accident would occur.
Unfortunately nowadays a lot of drivers perception of a safe distance is way off.Yeah agree, most people travel too close but you can’t expect drivers to be forward faced tunnel visioned all the time. A glance in the mirror, a vehicle suddenly changing lanes cutting in and locking on the brakes is all it needs.
A drivers actions in front has a massive bearing on what happens behind regardless of safe distances.
I am not suggesting anyone uses tunnel vision infact exactly the opposite but if in the split seccond it takes you to check your mirrors you find yourself right on top of a vehicle which has braked suddenly you are far too close in the first place.
It does not matter what a driver does in front of you if you are keeping a safe distance you will be able to stop or at least take evasive action.
As I have said keeping a safe distance in not the norm anymore for whatever reason but it is so sad because most of these horrendous accidents could be avoided if drivers just took a bit more care.
Hiya…just a though, the lorry driver should be high enough to see whats going on infront.
the artic is following a 7.5 tonner(maybe) the 7.5 tonner sweves to miss the mini bus and the
artic driver is left with a slow or stationary mini bus infront of him. i know thats sounds odd.
i did infact see that happen at jct 11 on the m1 at luton one morning.
the traffic stopped in lane 1 and 2 a van shot into the fast lane leaving a stationary car in the middle
lane infront of a artic. the artic also swerved into the fast lane squashing a car against the barrier,he then dragged
his trailer axle over the boot of the stationary car. then guess what. drove away without stopping.
the artic must have been empty, no one got his number it all happened that fast.
John
3300John:
Hiya…just a though, the lorry driver should be high enough to see whats going on infront.
the artic is following a 7.5 tonner(maybe) the 7.5 tonner sweves to miss the mini bus and the
artic driver is left with a slow or stationary mini bus infront of him. i know thats sounds odd.
i did infact see that happen at jct 11 on the m1 at luton one morning.
the traffic stopped in lane 1 and 2 a van shot into the fast lane leaving a stationary car in the middle
lane infront of a artic. the artic also swerved into the fast lane squashing a car against the barrier,he then dragged
his trailer axle over the boot of the stationary car. then guess what. drove away without stopping.
the artic must have been empty, no one got his number it all happened that fast.
John
John I completely understand what you are saying but at the end of the day these things happen because there is not enough distance between vehicles.
You see it everyday.Accidents waiting to happen.Sad state of affairs.
albion1971:
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.Sorry do not agree.If a vehicle keeps a safe distance at all times it would be highly unlikely or very unusual circumstances where an accident would occur.
Unfortunately nowadays a lot of drivers perception of a safe distance is way off.
so no one has ever changed lanes / pulled out of a side road in front of you robbing your safe distance? and if they do with a resulting crash, you’ll be happy to take the blame?
one of my near misses was when traveling along a dual carriageway, it’s pitch black, the next exit is signed but can’t see it yet, i’m gaining on a car so pull out to overtake it with plenty of room, the car indicates and pulls into the layby, i start coming back across into lane 1. once i’m within 20 / 30 ft of the car now doing about 15 / 20mph, i’m guessing the car then realised he’d come off into a layby and not the slip road just goes to pull back onto the carriageway. luckily enough my horn got the reaction i wanted along with me getting over towards the white line. had it not the front left of my truck and the rear right of the car would’ve looked like the vehicles in this thread. i’m not saying that is the case here, but it’s a possibility.
stevieboy308:
albion1971:
Just in general terms, the driver who hits into the back of someone usually gets the blame but like you say other drivers actions sometimes make this unavoidable.Sorry do not agree.If a vehicle keeps a safe distance at all times it would be highly unlikely or very unusual circumstances where an accident would occur.
Unfortunately nowadays a lot of drivers perception of a safe distance is way off.so no one has ever changed lanes / pulled out of a side road in front of you robbing your safe distance? and if they do with a resulting crash, you’ll be happy to take the blame?
one of my near misses was when traveling along a dual carriageway, it’s pitch black, the next exit is signed but can’t see it yet, i’m gaining on a car so pull out to overtake it with plenty of room, the car indicates and pulls into the layby, i start coming back across into lane 1. once i’m within 20 / 30 ft of the car now doing about 15 / 20mph, i’m guessing the car then realised he’d come off into a layby and not the slip road just goes to pull back onto the carriageway. luckily enough my horn got the reaction i wanted along with me getting over towards the white line. had it not the front left of my truck and the rear right of the car would’ve looked like the vehicles in this thread. i’m not saying that is the case here, but it’s a possibility.
Shocking driving! You should be hung, drawn and quartered! Call yourself a professional! You should have seen that happening from 13 miles away!
Signed,
DC Albion.
Albion I have to disagree.
How about 1 mile distance between me and the vehicle in front in my lane, I assume you will agree that is a safe stopping distance.
Ok we are on a motorway so 4 lanes of traffic, lane 1 is a filter lane for a junction that is 1 mile away and that is the lane I am travelling in at about 50mph, lanes 2, 3 and 4 are the main carriage ways for people staying on and they are slowing quite rapidly, brake lights everywhere and they are doing about 30mph and still slowing down rapidly.
A van about 70 yards in front in the middle of the pack, from lane 3 signals left and moves into lane 2. At the same time a women in a car is actually accelerating to towards the slowing traffic in lane 2 and then cuts in front of me into lane 1 because she wants a clear lane ahead, but what she didn’t see was the van moving from lane 3 to lane 2, what she did see however was the vans signal still not cancelled from his manoeuvre so now he is down to about 10mph and still his left signal is on.
So she slams her anchors on pretty much doing an emergency stop and I have to take drastic action onto the hard shoulder to avoid running over her but luckily for her and everyone else, I was actually already on my brakes when this slag was still in lane 2 because I KNOW what she was thinking and I KNEW that she would cut in front of me so I was already making allowances for a safe gap in front that wasn’t even there yet!!!
You can make allowances all you want but you seem to believe that everything is unavoidable in front of you when it’s not… Yes most of the time it is… But sometimes it’s not.
Hi Guys - New member here so be gentle.
We already know from the newspapers a few details on the Farm Foods driver. But who was the driver of the minibus?
Was it a driver contracted to a minibus firm and therefore hired out along with the minibus?
Or was the minibus itself merely hired to the girls who then arranged themselves for one of their party to do the driving?
I believe from the reports that everyone aboard the bus was a female. There was however a 56 year old lady among the injured who was the mother of the bridegroom. Could she have been the driver and if so would she have needed a PSV licence bearing in mind the minibus was carry at least 22 persons.
I gleaned from the photos that the minibus was a Mercedes and appeared to bear the registration plate CRZ 4816.
If so that makes it a model manufactured in 2002 with a 2800cc engine. A bit small I would have thought
If this is the case I just wondered what the maximum seating capacity should have been. There did seem to be a lot of passengers on board for such a ‘not so large’ minibus.
.
FarnboroughBoy11:
I just hope all the final details are released but as I’ve said before, the
full investigation on fatals like this are never usually released are they?They are reported but i mean i want to see a full thorough investigation
made public like the same one that is presented in front of the coroner.
Absolutely correct.
My mate is in the Merchant Navy. Every collision or other incident at sea is
fully investigated and every aspect is fully reported on and published. No holds barred.
We should have the same kind of Police/ Highways Agency Accident Reports so
that we may learn from other’s failures, mistakes or recklessness.
They could improve a couple of sessions of the DriverCPC !
The accident reports could be analysed, dissected, discussed and digested by
a bunch of professional Drivers in the classroom who should find something
to agree on !
Turbovision:
Hi Guys - New member here so be gentle.We already know from the newspapers a few details on the Farm Foods driver. But who was the driver of the minibus?
Was it a driver contracted to a minibus firm and therefore hired out along with the minibus?
Or was the minibus itself merely hired to the girls who then arranged themselves for one of their party to do the driving?
I believe from the reports that everyone aboard the bus was a female. There was however a 56 year old lady among the injured who was the mother of the bridegroom. Could she have been the driver and if so would she have needed a PSV licence bearing in mind the minibus was carry at least 22 persons.
I gleaned from the photos that the minibus was a Mercedes and appeared to bear the registration plate CRZ 4816.
If so that makes it a model manufactured in 2002 with a 2800cc engine. A bit small I would have thoughtIf this is the case I just wondered what the maximum seating capacity should have been. There did seem to be a lot of passengers on board for such a ‘not so large’ minibus.
.
Don’t really see the relevance of your post, the engine size has no bearing on anything whatsoever especially as minibuses identical to this one have been on the roads for years.
The driver wouldn’t need a PSV license if it was not driven for hire or reward providing they have the entitlement on their license, any jo public can hire a mini bus providing they have the correct entitlement, what they cant do is hire it and charge people to travel on it.
Oh and i believe the minibus can seat around 22 people, just have a look on Ebay for the for sale.
How come you also posted the exact same post on Digital Spy? Are you trolling?
nickyboy:
The driver wouldn’t need a PSV license if it was not driven for hire or reward providing they have the entitlement on their license, any jo public can hire a mini bus providing they have the correct entitlement, what they cant do is hire it and charge people to travel on it.?
I could drive it on my license as I have grandfather rights. A lot of drivers do not have the entitlement to drive it.
I was in Asda Warrington just before Christmas, the transport desk needed someone to drive the minibus to the wigan depot. Out of 10 drivers I was the only one who had the entitlement to drive it. A lot of the drivers where surprised (including myself) that they didn’t have the entitlement to drive it. You would need a license with D1 entitlement to drive it. You cannot drive it on a normal license
