I was thinking more about the rear lights
the lighting on the rear of some trailers are pathetic
SHYTOT:
I was thinking more about the rear lights
the lighting on the rear of some trailers are pathetic
Fair point. Some trailers have poor lights and with a layer of road muck on them are not much use. Doubt the drunk would have been too scrupulous about cleaning them.
And if the MiniBus was at an angle to approaching traffic that could have made a confusing light pattern.However, since the FedEx was going full tilt, it seems he didn`t see anything, confusing or otherwise.
A horrible incident, with a chain of events leading to it. Any link being broken could have avoided the deaths of the totally innocent victims.
SHYTOT:
I was thinking more about the rear lights
the lighting on the rear of some trailers are pathetic
Yes i agree with that, and part of the reason why proper long vehicle plates were better than what has replaced them.
As for lorry rear lights i’ll mention Stobart here because lots of their trailers run three sets each side of the superb Hella round light units, so you get either 3 or 6 side lights each side and 3 bright indicators (which because they are proper amber lenses are unaffected by bright sunlight 
), and i honestly think this rear light combination is one of the best and most noticeable but without being blinding that i’ve seen on the back of lorries in all my years.
Too many modern lights have layers of clear plastic for the indicators, which pow have orange bulbs shining through, these designs catch sunlight and on sunny days are almost impossible to see.
Don’t get me started on scrolling led indicators, they should have been left on Aldi’s as prime examples of how not to do it so pseudo sales executives and wannabes can show them off to (apparently 
) impress lesser mortals, they have no place on a lorry because they are useless.
I’m none to sure that led lights are the way to go (though thats where we are going and they do last well) because whilst bright, they all (no not all but many) have a certain flicker effect which not everyone can see.
In worse case scenario, and some exec German cars here are prime examples, the brake lights are so ridiculously bright and light up fully even if the driver just rest his foot on the pedal, that they are almost impossible to determine the rate of deceleration from due to being blinded to anything else in the surroundings.
Whilst on a rant roll 
, i never thought replacing the red and clear lensed side marker lights with amber was a move for better, with red/clear you know instantly from a side glimpse which direction a vehicle is facing, and any momentary confusion when alongside such a vehicle that a flickering amber light could either be a loose connection side marker or an indicator flash isn’t going to happen.
Sorry it got off topic so much, but we will never know what part, if any, vehicle lighting or marking played in this tragedy.
Juddian:
SHYTOT:
I was thinking more about the rear lights
the lighting on the rear of some trailers are patheticYes i agree with that, and part of the reason why proper long vehicle plates were better than what has replaced them.
As for lorry rear lights i’ll mention Stobart here because lots of their trailers run three sets each side of the superb Hella round light units, so you get either 3 or 6 side lights each side and 3 bright indicators (which because they are proper amber lenses are unaffected by bright sunlight
Too many modern lights have layers of clear plastic for the indicators, which pow have orange bulbs shining through, these designs catch sunlight and on sunny days are almost impossible to see.
Don’t get me started on scrolling led indicators, they should have been left on Aldi’s as prime examples of how not to do it so pseudo sales executives and wannabes can show them off to (apparentlyI’m none to sure that led lights are the way to go (though thats where we are going and they do last well) because whilst bright, they all have a certain flicker effect which not everyone can see.
In worse case scenario, and some exec German cars here are prime examples, the brake lights are so ridiculously bright and light up fully even if the driver just rest his foot on the pedal, that they are almost impossible to determine the rate of deceleration from.Whilst on a rant roll
Sorry it got off topic so much, but we will never know what part, if any, vehicle lighting or marking played in this tragedy.
100% with you on scrolling indicators being crap. Ive already mentioned it in another thread, but Ill repeat myself here.
A bright light that comes on and off instantly is more noticeable than a gradually illuminating light. Having series of 6 LEDs that come on one by one is not as noticeable as an instantaneous flash on.
Idiot stylists and salesmen selling fashion over function.
Rick W:
Brilliant post Juddian and all very true Some of the comments on this thread are appalling especially about the mini bus driver and probably all for the wrong reasons.
His actions were the primary factor in the deaths of 8 people. He was able to stop 25 metres away from the rear of that truck. He presented himself as a professional driver? I’d be somewhat dishonest if I didn’t say what I see on a daily basis and have been seeing on a daily basis for around 40 years and that is foreign nationals gaining a licence to drive in the UK display a poorer standard of driving than the indigenous population. Them and tipper drivers but it’s ok to say it about tipper drivers…if it’s fact then it isn’t racism. If he was still alive today and knowing what we know about his driving capabilities now, how many of us would be happy to hand over our nearest and dearest to this man to take them down the M1 at 3am? He was the 3rd idiot in a 3 idiot sandwich.
Juddian:
we are forgetting how disorienting this must have been for anyone approaching the stationary lorry.as you approach jct 14 the roundabout over the top of the motorway will be lit, you would be able to see the dual lane slip road going up to the traffic lights because the lights will in effect highlight those lanes for you by reflection.
however the motorway ahead would be in darkness because the lights on the junction above won’t have the same effect because the road under will disappear into utter darkness under the junction, anyone remotely normal approaching a set of lorry rear side lights would expect that lorry to be moving, as it registers with them the vehicle is not moving they would expect it to be on the hard shoulder, but at that spot the hard shoulder has only just resumed after the slip road exited.i’m not in the least surprised that someone, in this case the minibus stopped when they realised the lorry was stationary on a live lane, they might assume something had happened, no one in their right mind would come up with the idea some half ■■■■■■ twerp had pulled up for forty winks or, as suggested, waiting for the right moment to reverse back along the live lane, again i remind you all the lorry was not even on the hard shoulder.
also we are trying to link logical sensible thought process with someone half ■■■■■■■ the two are not compatible as anyone who has witnessed a police officer trying to talk rationally to a street drunk could tell you, it’s like trying to herd cats and banging you head against the wall at the same time, it isn’t happening.if its hadn’t been the minibus driver stopping, inadvisedly as it happens, it would have been someone else.
we are wrong as vocational drivers trying to put our long won driving judgement on the actions of other road users, A who haven’t the vision that we have from our lofty driving position (though the tailgating lorry morons don’t value this aspect) and B other road users will not be as aware as we are of how much the standard of person sitting behind the wheel of lorries varies, from the thoughtful considerate people who deserve the title pro to the other end who should never have been issued with a lorry licence in the first place.
the sad irony here he wasn’t even currently licenced, and whether that person or persons responsible for employing and allowing him out ever have answer a court or not, they should if they have an ounce of humanity realise for the rest of their lives the responsibility they share in this sad affair.
I agree with the lighting on the slip road bit.
But let’s be honest here.This carnt be the first time he has used this part of the M1 surely?
Add to that he didn’t even BRAKE atall 
I was down there this morning at 230ish and I do wonder how it happened.
What I will say is at 2am-3am it’s proper busy with wagons in the week.Obviously that night wasn’t as busy they say.
If you was a driving past in a wagon what would you have done having avoided it?
If it was me I would have to stop as I’d fear the worst like what happen.
TiredAndEmotional:
Rick W:
Brilliant post Juddian and all very true Some of the comments on this thread are appalling especially about the mini bus driver and probably all for the wrong reasons.His actions were the primary factor in the deaths of 8 people. He was able to stop 25 metres away from the rear of that truck. He presented himself as a professional driver? I’d be somewhat dishonest if I didn’t say what I see on a daily basis and have been seeing on a daily basis for around 40 years and that is foreign nationals gaining a licence to drive in the UK display a poorer standard of driving than the indigenous population. Them and tipper drivers but it’s ok to say it about tipper drivers…if it’s fact then it isn’t racism. If he was still alive today and knowing what we know about his driving capabilities now, how many of us would be happy to hand over our nearest and dearest to this man to take them down the M1 at 3am? He was the 3rd idiot in a 3 idiot sandwich.
If the actions of the minibus driver Mr Joseph were different, then the outcome would have been different. Maybe it`d be just the FedEx and AIM trucks involved?
There is a tendency to “speak no ill of the dead”, true. All drivers involved seem to have some level of responsibility, OK.
Regards licences: as I understand it, Ryszard Masierak the Polish driver could have exchanged a Polish Licence for a UK one. (Discounting his ban).
Mr Joseph could not have exchanged an Indian licence for a UK one and could not have been driving a MiniBus on an Indian licence.
Although I dont positively know, Id say he had passed a UK test. International licences are valid for only one year. Vocational licences are necessary to drive a UK reg truck or bus.
Is there a problem with the UK recognizing other countries licences? Yes, Id agree there. We do have relatively low accident rates, and some of that must be due to us having a strict driving test.
buses:
Juddian:
If you was a driving past in a wagon what would you have done having avoided it?
If it was me I would have to stop as I’d fear the worst like what happen.
Well i wouldn’t have gone past a stationary lorry sitting in lane one on the limiter as one would (though we would try to move into lane 2 to pass it even then) with the same vehicle sitting on the hard shoulder, my thoughts seeing a stranded vehicle would be the aftermath of an accident or other emergency and i would be expecting to see people or animals or anything on could imagine about to loom into my dipped beam in the vicinity of this stranded vehicle.
I would probably have stopped a couple of hundreds yards after passing the vehicle and, after donning me large hiviz coat and pocketing me phone and torch would have carefully minced along the grass verge to see if the driver had been taken ill, last thing anyone would have expected was some ■■■■■■ up idiot, but then i’m not a copper who would probably have a shrewd idea what might be involved.
However as i said earlier, with the disorientation due to the position of the parked/stranded lorry sitting beside a hard shoulder that has just resumed after an exit slip road, then the potential for someone (probably not as accustomed as we are to the early morning rush to beat the traffic we know happens) to make a different, and with the benefit of hindsight, the wrong judgment call, was magnified many times.
We arn’t perfect drivers either, how many instances stick in your mind when you know deep in your heart that had things worked out differently your actions at the time could have resulted in disaster, for me there were many and some i can still see in my minds eye now many years later, hopefully we learn from them, there but for the grace of God etc.
If ifs were pounds we’d all be millionaires.
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SHYTOT:
I was thinking more about the rear lights
the lighting on the rear of some trailers are pathetic
The fact is you need to be driving on an unlit motorway based on the premise that first and foremost there could very well be a totally unlit stationary hazard in the your path.Anything with more lights or reflection than that is just a bonus.It’s obvious that total reliance,on just dipped headlights,at motorway speeds,is a recipe for disaster in that regard.
One thing that would help this situation is a move over law for vehicles stopped on the shoulder, maybe FedEx man would have moved out a lane even if on auto pilot in that case? Or he would be bang to rights guilty if he didn’t. No question of his due care and attention, simply he didn’t move over and that was the single fact that caused the accident.
Obviously the drunk lorry driver stopped in the inside lane contributed to the crash, as did the minibus driver, but there was no actual crash until the FedEx driver ploughed into them.
Heavy traffic volumes would make the move over law difficult to abide by, but there could be stipulations such as a minimum speed before you need to move over.
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As I see it, all of the drivers hold a degree of blame for this unfortunate tragedy. Lets start with the Polish AIM driver. Firstly lets start with the basics. His Licence was revoked, invalid…End Of!!! He was TWICE the drink drive limit. This was the breath test taken AFTER the accident. Question…What would he of blown had he been tested at the start of the Journey - IE was his Alcohol level on the rise or fall. It would not be unreal to suggest the driver may have been drinking en route?
He was IIRC static for some 12 minutes. Forget reversing… He would not have been trying for a rest whilst reversing back - every time he moved- putting the Tacho back on to break. I would suggest his mental capacity at that stage would not able him to remember to do this.
The Unfortunate minibus driver, clearly was not wholly professional in his approach to his work. Doing that sort of journey, at that time - on 3 HOURS sleep, is just ridiculous. As for the accident, He stopped. That was all he could do. His mental approach can only to be guessed at. The Front nearside passenger will hold they key to any discussion involving the late driver.
The Fedex driver crashed INTO the other vehicles. He clearly wasnt paying attention. Now however you look at it, whether the phone played a part, or the fact he was on cruise control, the key question is why he didnt see - or comprehend what was in front of him. He didnt reduce speed…brake or swerve. Hazard lights were operating on the minibus.
I think the polish driver was on a break, thinking he was on the hard shoulder. He wasnt “with it” so his positioning was false. The fact that he went round the roundabout the wrong way earlier can prove this. The AIM driver should be crucified in sentencing terms - as there are so many ■■■■■■■■■■ laws and offences he has broken. The Fedex driver is culpable because, well, he just didnt react or do anything to prevent the tragedy.
Some companies do champion Cruise Control, I would argue - particularly at nights, this is just increasing the chances of a driver crashing, as they are literally doing nothing except holding the wheel.
The Unfortunate minibus driver, clearly was not wholly professional in his approach to his work. Doing that sort of journey, at that time - on 3 HOURS sleep, is just ridiculous.
Sorry but you like others on here do not know for sure these details are true.
Presuming that the twice over the drink drive limit is correct, that’s really not much. I’m not saying that driving wouldn’t be impaired by alcohol, but especially if you are an habitual drinker, twice over wouldn’t mean that your abilities were so compromised that you make that much of a balls of driving surely?
I just thinnk something else was going on which coupled with the alcohol, led to the AIM drivers actions.
Doesn’t this all boil down to “Safe Stopping Distances”.?
At night, visibility is OK on the M1 in the Milton Keynes/Newport Pagnall stretch, as it’s well lit.
Tired eyes are going to have an effect though, as is tiredness slowing down reactions to “the unexpected”.
As for "First vehicle stops in live lane, second vehicle is WTF, but slows down to complete stop behind first vehicle… and then CRUNCH vehicle three goes into the back…
One causes, one fails to avoid, and the last - didn’t even see it coming.
corij:
windrush:
I read somewhere in the press this week, or maybe on our local news, that he (the Polish driver) wasn’t even in the driving seat but sitting in a space between the two seats?From the Nottingham Post this week;
He found the AIM Logistics driver seated between the passengers’ and driver’s seat with his head in his hands.thats just the sort of crafty trick that sort pulls, to muddy the water. drunk but making out he wasnt driving at time of crash. likely was backing up , minibus stops- then realizing trucks backing up- pulls out to pass him leaving Fedex with nowhere to go . bang. polish guy thinks [zb] its me thats caused it, hmmm, jump in between seats and plead i wasnt driving
FFS: The taxi driver who was first on the scene found Maseriak sat between the two seats, Maseriak has admitted that he was asleep on the bunk when the accident happened and the jolt woke him, and the police have said that his lorry didn’t move for 12 minutes. Maybe the facts don’t fit your fuzzy way of thinking but they are the facts.
It seems to me there are a surprising number of members here who are desperate to hang this solely on the Pole, whilst desperately looking for any avenue that will relieve the Brit of his guilt. This stretches to an Indian minibus driver pulling up behind the AIM lorry and then putting his hazard lights on, and even the lighting on the junction adding confusion to the mix. None of this accounts for the fact that for 12 minutes vehicles somehow managed to pass the stricken AIM lorry without hitting it. How did they do it?
Even though Joseph has only had three hours sleep he’s still aware enough to not only see the AIM lorry but park up behind it and put his hazards on. Dave Wagstaff, the good ole Brit, sees nothing until it’s too late (he doesn’t even brake), hits the minibus up the rear, pushing it into the AIM lorry killing eight and seriously injuring four, and it’s just a mistake!
Nobody has explained yet how Mr Pole managed to acquire the keys to a Scania articulated lorry without a licence.
Apparently shift supervisor said he didn’t appear to be under the influence when showing up for work but is this witness credible? Was he close enough to get a blast of Tyskie or was he behind a glass screen for example?
Socketset:
Nobody has explained yet how Mr Pole managed to acquire the keys to a Scania articulated lorry without a licence.Apparently shift supervisor said he didn’t appear to be under the influence when showing up for work but is this witness credible? Was he close enough to get a blast of Tyskie or was he behind a glass screen for example?
Again presuming that the twice over the limit is correct, if I rocked up having had two large glasses of wine, which would put me easily over two times the limit, I’d doubt anyone would look at me and think, she’s drunk. I’ve never tested it, but I doubt my driving would be so impaired that I’d stop in a live lane as opposed to the hard shoulder next to me.
Stanley Knife:
corij:
windrush:
I read somewhere in the press this week, or maybe on our local news, that he (the Polish driver) wasn’t even in the driving seat but sitting in a space between the two seats?From the Nottingham Post this week;
He found the AIM Logistics driver seated between the passengers’ and driver’s seat with his head in his hands.thats just the sort of crafty trick that sort pulls, to muddy the water. drunk but making out he wasnt driving at time of crash. likely was backing up , minibus stops- then realizing trucks backing up- pulls out to pass him leaving Fedex with nowhere to go . bang. polish guy thinks [zb] its me thats caused it, hmmm, jump in between seats and plead i wasnt driving
FFS: The taxi driver who was first on the scene found Maseriak sat between the two seats, Maseriak has admitted that he was asleep on the bunk when the accident happened and the jolt woke him, and the police have said that his lorry didn’t move for 12 minutes. Maybe the facts don’t fit your fuzzy way of thinking but they are the facts.
It seems to me there are a surprising number of members here who are desperate to hang this solely on the Pole, whilst desperately looking for any avenue that will relieve the Brit of his guilt. This stretches to an Indian minibus driver pulling up behind the AIM lorry and then putting his hazard lights on, and even the lighting on the junction adding confusion to the mix. None of this accounts for the fact that for 12 minutes vehicles somehow
Even though Joseph has only had three hours sleep he’s still aware enough to not only see the AIM lorry but park up behind it and put his hazards on. Dave Wagstaff, the good ole Brit, sees nothing until it’s too late (he doesn’t even brake), hits the minibus up the rear, pushing it into the AIM lorry killing eight and seriously injuring four, and it’s just a mistake!
Truth in what you say but in all accidents it’s all about the perfect storm. Had the pole not been drunk and asleep it may never have happened and everyone would be doing their normal thing. Had the minibus driver just gone round the pole maybe they would still be here and the Brit driver may have just piled into the pole driver. Maybe the Brit driver would have realised. Fact is it didn’t happen and it’s a tragic result for ALL concerned regardless of guilt. Tragic for the poor beggars who have to attend the scene. Tragic for all the families and extended families.
With all the h&s you will never erradicate accidents. It’s in the DNA of life.
One last thing about the minibus stopped and others going round the lorry ok. On my road which is fairly rural one day a mother and her twelve ducklings were crossing and recrossing he road in a bit of a flap. I stopped going one way and a driver stopped going the other way. Between us we tried to shoo the ducks away from the road. A few other cars stopped and we all tried to do our best. Cue the clever astra hotbox comes from the back at speed to overtake everyone. Bearing in mind he had no idea what was going on, it could have been anything, and promptly killed ten of the ducklings and the hit the mother so badly it died shortly afterwards. Now I know someone’s going to say they were only ducks etc but the principle is the same. Perhaps the minibus driver was unsure or thinking about offering assistance to someone who was in trouble. We will never know.
Prison sentences won’t bring anyone back, the guilt will be a heavy sentence. If a lesson is learned then some good will come out of it. The Brit made a mistake that ALL of us have probably done at some stage. The Pole was a loaded gun waiting to go off. Drink and an Artic are not a match in heaven and he chose to do that. The minibus driver made a judgement error and he and his passengers paid the price.
Sad event from all angles
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^^^ grrr P Stoff, i hope someone punched that Astra twonks lights out.