Spot on Robroy, i worked under the old 12.5 hour spreadover, and i’m of the opinion that once Brexit is out the way we resume that sensible rule and make it apply to foreign drivers whilst on our soil too.
12.5 hours is enough for any bugger.
As you rightly say, this endurance test mentality has to end, we’ll all have to pay a bit more for good and services.
One thing we should mention is the poor bloody emergency services who had to get their hands on sorting this tragedy out, there’ll be some traumatised buggers in the ranks there too.
49er:
“Thames Valley Police said Ryszard Masierak, 31, and David Wagstaff, 51, had each been charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving”
Thames Valley Police:
"Two men charged in connection with fatal collision – M1, Newport Pagnell
Thames Valley Police has today (27/8) charged two men in connection with a fatal collision on the M1 near Newport Pagnell yesterday (26/8).
Ryszard Masierak, aged 31, of Barnards Close, Evesham, Worcestershire, was charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving, four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving and eight counts of causing death by careless driving while over the prescribed limit.
He was remanded in custody to appear at High Wycombe Magistrates’ Court tomorrow (28/8).
David Wagstaff, aged 53, of Derwent Street, Stoke-on-Trent, was charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving and four counts causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
He was bailed to appear at Milton Keynes Magistrates’ Court on Monday 11 September.
The charges are in connection with a collision shortly before 3.15am yesterday in which six men and two women died. Four people who were injured and taken to hospital remain in serious conditions.
biggriffin:
Latest on the BBC, Both truck drivers just been charged,
Looks like the younger one that was also over the limit was Eastern Europen,
Quite a lot of Eastern European lads drink very heavily,vodka,strong lager etc…
Look at the amount of polish lager cans you see thrown in doorways in a run down part of town,
I know think the alcohol lock has to come in as far too many drivers British and European turn up to work drunk…
But then wha about the lads who are heavy cannabis users or the coke heads,we need a system to stop them too…
robroy:
Not speaking specifically about this case as nothing has been proved yet.
Driver fatigue has always been a major player in this job.
As for doing nights, I briefly tried it once, one week days alternately, but could not hack it, (the nights)
I found it difficult to go to bed through the day and sleep…no matter how tired I felt, so I would wake up after a max of 3 or 4 hours, feel ok, but half way through the shift feel wrecked.
What I did not do was carry on regardless whilst tired, and I would have to pull in periodically for at least 2 ‘power naps’ on top of my break…so I decided not for me, back to tramping.
Even tramping is susceptible to it, some would say especially so.
Those most at risk are the heros who go at the job like a demented bull at a gate, they are a particular strong candidate for it.
The 15 hour guys who look at the 11 hours off and 13 hour days …as something you need to ‘‘get out of the way’’ as they say, so they can resume the 9 hour rest blocks, drive to the last second of their 10 hours, park up where there are no facilities to help you unwind, for exactly 8hours 59 seconds before they are back in the seat driving with eyes like ■■■■ holes in the snow.
Some would say these guys are maybe as bad as drunk or drugged up drivers.
Rest is an important factor when driving a large potentially dangerous truck, so with that in mind,
what relationship has both health and safety, and road safety got with a 15 hour day and 9 hour’s rest.
Would you expect an office worker for eg, to finish his in comparison, short, shift of 8 hours at 5pm, and come back in at 2am, no?
So why is it acceptable for a guy to take 44 tonnes down a motorway on those terms.
The old system of 12 and a half spreadover with 11 and half off (afai recall) was a much safer system.
As for wages, then [zb] the employers they would have to adjust and adapt, to bring driving into 21 century conditions.
Don’t come back with nature of, or uniqueness of the job, that is only so because it has been regulated that way.
Not everyone will agree, but priorities have to be something more than profit, especially if public safety is being compromised by tired drivers.
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
If alcohol is a factor in this one, like others have said there may well be new legislation coming.
Sadly, no sooner had I watched the Volvo launch on YouTube some years ago demonstrating the breathalyser immobilizer device. Drivers were discussing ways it could be beaten and came up with viable answers.
■■■■■■■■ drinkers and confirmed alcoholics will find ways around devices, legislation and moral standards to carry on the habit.
There is no forgiving this driver, but I bet more deaths are caused by sober truck drivers than drunk ones in the UK, there is nothing to stop the stupid, well there is, automatic braking systems, but some drivers want to turn them off!
Weeto automatic braking systems will not stop accidents ,they are an aid to safety ,and still have their limitations…At the end of the day the driver is 100% responsible for the vehicle…
If you have an accident saying one of the aids failed isn’t an excuse ,as the driver has full control and the brake pedal etc
robroy:
Driver fatigue has always been a major player in this job.
As for doing nights, I briefly tried it once, one week days alternately, but could not hack it, (the nights)
I found it difficult to go to bed through the day and sleep…no matter how tired I felt, so I would wake up after a max of 3 or 4 hours, feel ok, but half way through the shift feel wrecked.
This is quite common, especially for people not used to running nights. One of the main reasons is that people assume they should replicate their daytime work pattern - but at night. This simply does not work for most people.
The best work around is to go straight to bed when you get home from your shift and wake earlier before you go to work. It’s the opposite pattern of what we tend to do when running days.
Recognising the first signs of fatigue is also important… one of which is when the lights of oncoming vehicles cause above average discomfort. This is a clear indicator that you should be pulling over.
One of the main problems with fatigue is that it sneaks up and your’e likely to be asleep at the wheel without being able to resist.
robroy:
So why is it acceptable for a guy to take 44 tonnes down a motorway on those terms.
The old system of 12 and a half spreadover with 11 and half off (afai recall) was a much safer system.
As for wages, then [zb] the employers they would have to adjust and adapt, to bring driving into 21 century conditions.
Yip, that’s the way forward. It would be a level playing field so we could compete on that basis.
The current system is way too dangerous.
This does not mitigate the drink driving issues which should be cracked down on. Any amount of fatigue is going to be exacerbated with the addition of booze.
I think we should have mandatory testing. Not sure what the form should be - it must be both reliable and economical - then there’s no excuse.
Possibly, but more likely to do with the fact he’s consumed booze… details to come… but he might just have accepted his destiny and figured it’s time to get on with it.
robroy:
Not speaking specifically about this case as nothing has been proved yet.
Driver fatigue has always been a major player in this job.
As for doing nights, I briefly tried it once, one week days alternately, but could not hack it, (the nights)
I found it difficult to go to bed through the day and sleep…no matter how tired I felt, so I would wake up after a max of 3 or 4 hours, feel ok, but half way through the shift feel wrecked.
What I did not do was carry on regardless whilst tired, and I would have to pull in periodically for at least 2 ‘power naps’ on top of my break…so I decided not for me, back to tramping.
Even tramping is susceptible to it, some would say especially so.
Those most at risk are the heros who go at the job like a demented bull at a gate, they are a particular strong candidate for it.
The 15 hour guys who look at the 11 hours off and 13 hour days …as something you need to ‘‘get out of the way’’ as they say, so they can resume the 9 hour rest blocks, drive to the last second of their 10 hours, park up where there are no facilities to help you unwind, for exactly 8hours 59 seconds before they are back in the seat driving with eyes like ■■■■ holes in the snow.
Some would say these guys are maybe as bad as drunk or drugged up drivers.
Rest is an important factor when driving a large potentially dangerous truck, so with that in mind,
what relationship has both health and safety, and road safety got with a 15 hour day and 9 hour’s rest.
Would you expect an office worker for eg, to finish his in comparison, short, shift of 8 hours at 5pm, and come back in at 2am, no?
So why is it acceptable for a guy to take 44 tonnes down a motorway on those terms.
The old system of 12 and a half spreadover with 11 and half off (afai recall) was a much safer system.
As for wages, then [zb] the employers they would have to adjust and adapt, to bring driving into 21 century conditions.
Don’t come back with nature of, or uniqueness of the job, that is only so because it has been regulated that way.
Not everyone will agree, but priorities have to be something more than profit, especially if public safety is being compromised by tired drivers.
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
Some time 15 hours shft more easy work than 10 hours>Some tome j go 220 miles one way,quickly tipping and back.All togethet about 10 hours.Another day i do 14-15 hours shift but drive just 200 miles and some 5-6 hours sleep in truck,waiting for load.What is more easy???May be need make restriction for break and not allow drive non stop more for 2-3 hours.
Possibly, but more likely to do with the fact he’s consumed booze… details to come… but he might just have accepted his destiny and figured it’s time to get on with it.
You say it like he has the choice of remand or not, maybe that’s a new thing far more likely that he’s deemed to be a flight risk.
Possibly, but more likely to do with the fact he’s consumed booze… details to come… but he might just have accepted his destiny and figured it’s time to get on with it.
You say it like he has the choice of remand or not, maybe that’s a new thing far more likely that he’s deemed to be a flight risk.
Nothing new about it.
He has a right to request bail. He has a right to not request bail.
So in effect he does have a choice.
The flight risk is very low. And we have the ability to bring him back. I think it’s more likely that he has followed the advice of his legal brief and possible that he is considered a suicide risk - the latter… someone else mentioned.
If he has been refused bail. He can still appeal that decision in front of a judge. He could be granted Judges Bail.
I was heading northbound past this terrible accident yesterday morning,
I was stuck in the traffic jam being caused by the idiots who were slowing down to rubberneck and obviously take the pictures i later saw on sky news,
The fact sky news put these pictures up is ridiculous,
Now every major incident is going to have more idiots causing a hazard by slowing up to take pictures and be wanna be sky news reporters.
Obviously more details of this terrible accident will come out in time but perhaps its time the powers that be looked at the ridiculous amount of hours we are allowed and expected to do.
far more likely that he’s deemed to be a flight risk.