bubsy06:
Nothing said about the vehicle that cut across in front of the AIM lorry causing him to jackknife and the fed ex having nowhere to go except into the minibus.
Somebody was a bit late for the junction and is sat at home now knowing they caused all this.Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
I’m guessing much more detail will out with time.
Unfortunately there’s far too much tailgating goes on, especially in roadworks- can’t help but wonder about that.
TiredAndEmotional:
As others have said a lot of assumptions are being made here to the extent that some have already hung drawn and quartered a man with no evidence other than a positive breath test. It may come out in the fullness of time to be a red herring. It might be the minibus driver at fault. He might have been absolutely blotto. Or knackered because it’s 3 o’clock in the morning and he’s been up all day before driving his family in a vehicle he might not have been familiar with when fatigued in the often fatal wee small hours. Or one or both of the truck drivers were fatigued after a week of night shift. Maybe one of their neighbours was banging nails in walls and he didn’t get enough sleep. Give it a [zb] rest all you Perry Masons! You don’t KNOW anything right now!
Having had a drunk driver come the wrong way round a roundabout and crash into my car, my views on this are rather strong. As I said earlier, drunk driving isn’t an accident, it’s a choice. Failing a roadside alcohol test is IMO enough to ‘hang, draw and quarter’ someone.
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.
Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police.
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
Captain Caveman 76:
Having had a drunk driver come the wrong way round a roundabout and crash into my car, my views on this are rather strong. As I said earlier, drunk driving isn’t an accident, it’s a choice. Failing a roadside alcohol test is IMO enough to ‘hang, draw and quarter’ someone.
Yip, far too many excuses and not enough responsibility around this issue. There’s no excuse, everyone knows the dangers - time for a serious change of attitude from the system on this. Short term driving bans and fine are failing and innocent people die as a result.
supermatt:
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police.
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
I take it you have spoken to the police with your witness evidence?
Jingle Jon:
supermatt:
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police.
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
I take it you have spoken to the police with your witness evidence?
The company I work for has reported it after I made them aware of what I saw without knowing at the time the consequences, along with retrieving footage from truck. Obviously my employer is taking it very seriously.
A completely avoidable waste of life.
supermatt:
Jingle Jon:
supermatt:
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police.
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
I take it you have spoken to the police with your witness evidence?
The company I work for has reported it after I made them aware of what I saw without knowing at the time the consequences, along with retrieving footage from truck. Obviously my employer is taking it very seriously.
A completely avoidable waste of life.
Yes, I can only imagine the pain of the families. If the dashcam has recorded the data, that could be vital evidence, if I was you I would write down everything you remember and you will likely be visited by the police. Writing your evidence now whilst your memory is still fresh is best.
Looking at the pictures it appears A.I.M. trailer had to be at an angle before Fedex hit it, so makes me wonder if he’d stopped in lane 1 after missing his exit and was actually reversing into the slip road.
123smith:
Truely shocking! Condolences to those who have lost loved ones.There is NO excuse for drink driving, ever!
The accident happened at 03:15, which makes me wonder how far over the limit the driver was at the start of his or her shift.
Picture this scenario: A full timer/regular drops the friday night shift. An agency is called, but the only person available has already done 5 shifts that week, three of them around 15 hours. As far as he is concerned, he’s done for the week, and is actually knackered rather than the worse for drink. Agency texts him to say “We really need to you cover this midnight start at Parkhouse” (Stoke Depot) where you will just be running a quick shuttle down to Marston Gate and back." Few of us would chance anything after having a skinfull - but if we were tired though? - The Police argue that being tired is as bad as being drunk don’t they? Also, do not most fatal accidents happen on Friday Nights/Saturday early house from tiredness? 
It’s a dreadful thing to happen in any case. Tiredness might even see a driver let some third party elephant racing, without their normal move to click off five, and let them past… Poor old Minibus with a wall of Artic bearing down upon them didn’t really stand a chance, especially if the driver was anything less than 100% alert and awake as well.
It’s Human to be half asleep in the small hours of Saturday Morning. Put three separate such drivers in the same place though? - Disaster awaits.
RIP. 
wing-nut:
Looking at the pictures it appears A.I.M. trailer had to be at an angle before Fedex hit it, so makes me wonder if he’d stopped in lane 1 after missing his exit and was actually reversing into the slip road.
…The Irony there would be that the Fedex Artic was likely to be leaving the Motorway at the very NEXT exit themselves!
TiredAndEmotional:
As others have said a lot of assumptions are being made here to the extent that some have already hung drawn and quartered a man with no evidence other than a positive breath test. It may come out in the fullness of time to be a red herring. It might be the minibus driver at fault. He might have been absolutely blotto. Or knackered because it’s 3 o’clock in the morning and he’s been up all day before driving his family in a vehicle he might not have been familiar with when fatigued in the often fatal wee small hours. Or one or both of the truck drivers were fatigued after a week of night shift. Maybe one of their neighbours was banging nails in walls and he didn’t get enough sleep. Give it a [zb] rest all you Perry Masons! You don’t KNOW anything right now!
This is the internet.
Everyone’s an expert and everyone knows exactly what happened even before the police investigation team has arrived on the scene
I think that the TNUK CSI team should sign up for the Tokyo 2020 olympic ‘jumping to conclusions’ squad. Gold surely?
As drivers there are very few things we can do to improve the job, nobody bothers to listen to us in this industry & can you blame 'em.
One BIG thing we can do is to learn from each other and the experiences we encounter, to become better at the job by learning from the mistakes of others or to change the way we do things because someone has found that this way is better. I feel the very nature of TNUK’s forum makes this particularly difficult.
simcor:
Also @tiredandemotional so if you have been kept up all night or day or most of it and then drive a truck knowing you are tired and then involved in an accident like this or even through too many hours working does that make it OK then? Knowing that studies have proven that tired drivers are as dangerous as drunk drivers?
So isn’t it time this industry was forced to grasp the nettle of drivers night time hours of work? Because in my experience it doesn’t matter how well you think you’re prepared for night time work, every so often it reminds you that you’re just flesh and blood and diurnal flesh and blood at that. It’s the easy option to lay blame at the door of people who are trying to earn a living in an industry that clearly does not take this issue seriously at all. Phone in tired? Sacked! Finances severely disrupted for people who usually can’t afford such disruption. Get a new job? Might have to do an assessment drive in between shifts that will show up when you download your card next and you might have to take a shift off too to legally fit an assessment drive in. It’s all money that many working people can ill afford to lose. There’s a world of difference sometimes between doing “the right thing” and real life with it’s financial pressures and it’s time the industry took its share of the responsibility instead of blaming the foot soldiers for everything.
Now, back to my original point, nobody here has any evidence this accident was caused by drunk driving, tiredness or whatever. Although one driver tested positive that doesn’t mean he was drunk. The driver who tested positive quite conceivably had no responsibility for what happened. In the meantime you can see clearly how that aspect of this tragedy has become the main focus of peoples theories. If it turns out this driver was in the clear he will carry for years to come probably till his dying the stigma generated by numpties with ■■■■ all better to do than beat their gums/ keypads. He’ll always be referred to, by some numpty, as the drunk who killed a minibus full of people. If he is going to be found guilty it should be by the evidence presented in court. Let the experts do their work and if he is found to be at fault then fill your boots!
I came across this accident at 3.35 am. Was aware of the 2 trucks but had no idea the minibus was even there. I was on my way back from an overnight trunk. Just before I came across this Appalling crash I can remember how tired I was feeling. I think fatigue is a huge player in these early morning incidents. I could feel me self getting sleepy so after this I pulled into Crawley crossing just to to take ten minutes to wake up.
When I got home I then discovered the true extent of what I’d seen. To any drivers that do feel tired I would urge them to take 5 mins rest it made a huge difference to the rest of my trip. The last thing I would like to add is the following distances that drivers do not leave themselves. I no longer drive full time I instruct and am constantly warning students about following distances. For those that are on the road all the time and are on here what’s you take on it?. Some of the tailgating that I witnessed on Friday night should be punished.
Stay safe and god bless
supermatt:
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police.
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
Can understand why you didn’t see him at first, you simply don’t expect a vehicle to be stopped in a live lane without hazards on at the very least.
Even at limiter speed it’s quite shocking how fast you are approaching.
You are a very important witness to the lead up to this tragedy, don’t suppose there’s a dash cam which needs hooking out pronto before it’s overwritten?..not trying to patronise you cos no doubt that was the very first thing that happened when you got back.
If this is what has caused the accident it should have serious implications to the mindless race to half baked ‘smart motorway’ ■■■■■■■■ everywhere when there won’t be a hard shoulder to be found anywhere and stopped vehicles in live inside lanes will be a regular thing, i suspect increasing numbers of drivers of all vehicles will end up treating the inside lane as a hard shoulder anyway, especially at night if the section is poorly or unlit, and definately in fog.
As for the over the alcohol limit, i do hope there’s a false positive at breath test stage and the driver proves clear after all.
Just on the news now, both lorry drivers have been charged, the younger one for 8 counts of death by dangerous driving whilst over the limit, and the older one for 8 counts of death by dangerous driving.
Latest on the BBC, Both truck drivers just been charged,
Not speaking specifically about this case as nothing has been proved yet.
Driver fatigue has always been a major player in this job.
As for doing nights, I briefly tried it once, one week days alternately, but could not hack it, (the nights)
I found it difficult to go to bed through the day and sleep…no matter how tired I felt, so I would wake up after a max of 3 or 4 hours, feel ok, but half way through the shift feel wrecked.
What I did not do was carry on regardless whilst tired, and I would have to pull in periodically for at least 2 ‘power naps’ on top of my break…so I decided not for me, back to tramping.
Even tramping is susceptible to it, some would say especially so.
Those most at risk are the heros who go at the job like a demented bull at a gate, they are a particular strong candidate for it.
The 15 hour guys who look at the 11 hours off and 13 hour days …as something you need to ‘‘get out of the way’’ as they say, so they can resume the 9 hour rest blocks, drive to the last second of their 10 hours, park up where there are no facilities to help you unwind, for exactly 8hours 59 seconds before they are back in the seat driving with eyes like ■■■■ holes in the snow.
Some would say these guys are maybe as bad as drunk or drugged up drivers.
Rest is an important factor when driving a large potentially dangerous truck, so with that in mind,
what relationship has both health and safety, and road safety got with a 15 hour day and 9 hour’s rest.
Would you expect an office worker for eg, to finish his in comparison, short, shift of 8 hours at 5pm, and come back in at 2am, no?
So why is it acceptable for a guy to take 44 tonnes down a motorway on those terms.
The old system of 12 and a half spreadover with 11 and half off (afai recall) was a much safer system.
As for wages, then ■■■■ the employers they would have to adjust and adapt, to bring driving into 21 century conditions.
Don’t come back with nature of, or uniqueness of the job, that is only so because it has been regulated that way. 
Not everyone will agree, but priorities have to be something more than profit, especially if public safety is being compromised by tired drivers.
biggriffin:
Latest on the BBC, Both truck drivers just been charged,
Don’t ever want to be in their shoes and having to live with it.
“Thames Valley Police said Ryszard Masierak, 31, and David Wagstaff, 51, had each been charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving”