windrush:
Looking at pics of the minibus on the recovery vehicle the nearside front is virtually undamaged, the wing, wheel and cab door including the window are complete but the rest is wrecked. Of course the emergency services will have cut a lot of the shell away so difficult to assertain just where the point of impact was.
Pete.
I’d guess that an offset impact between the nearside front of the truck connecting with offside rear of the minibus sending both vehicles off at an angle to the left is a likely possible candidate.The most obvious implication of that specific possible scenario would be either the truck having clipped the minibus owing to a late lane change or the minibus having pulled out into the path of the Fed Ex truck owing to a botched lane change.
Dr Damon:
CC76 I am not quite sure what your point is here.
You mention about the problem of trying to overtake on a busy motorway.
The problem being getting out into the next lane presumably because nobody will let you out.
Generally that is because they are all nose to tail and to selfish to let others out.In that situation as the road is busy probably better to ease off and stay where you are.It is quite possible car drivers don’t want to let trucks out because they are fed up getting caught up in an elephant race.
Then you mention about roadworks restricted to 50.
Again as a truck driver surely it is safer and less stressful to stay in lane one keep a good distance from the vehicle in front and try to restore some faith to others that we can drive professionally.
My point is, fast moving traffic and slow moving traffic don’t mix well in an environment designed for fast flowing traffic. I don’t just see it every day, I live it.
Your not making a lot of sense.
You mentioned restricted 50 mph limit.
There should be no great speed differential.
Main problem to me seems to be driver impatience and lack of foresight.
I see that everyday.
Speed differential, I believe is a major cause of problems in the UK, when you drive in Europe where trucks are doing between 80 & 90 km/hr (on the flat anyway) and cars are doing 110-130 km/hr there are far less hold ups it seems and of course most other European countries only allow trucks in Lane 2 outside of “rush hours”
Dolph:
Why THE F… every thread has to come down how bad EE are, how we steal your jobs, how we are alcoholics. Eastern Europe is made up from dozens of countries every one with different culture,habits and understanding of life.
What happen on M1 is tragic, sad and criminal event, the guilty party should be prosecuted with the full extend of the law. RIP to all people regardless of country of origin.
And before talking about drink driving look in the mirror, every week British citizens are arrested driving drunk(cars/SUV’s) in Bulgaria, yes not trucks but never the less drunk. When I mention this last year, many of you said, well thats normal few pints from the pub, driving few miles home
I see no one has replied back to this message especially when a European forum member decides to post, especially those who have been bad mouthing EE, Flip Flops (hate the term) etc…
Dolph:
Why THE F… every thread has to come down how bad EE are, how we steal your jobs, how we are alcoholics. Eastern Europe is made up from dozens of countries every one with different culture,habits and understanding of life.
What happen on M1 is tragic, sad and criminal event, the guilty party should be prosecuted with the full extend of the law. RIP to all people regardless of country of origin.
And before talking about drink driving look in the mirror, every week British citizens are arrested driving drunk(cars/SUV’s) in Bulgaria, yes not trucks but never the less drunk. When I mention this last year, many of you said, well thats normal few pints from the pub, driving few miles home
I see no one has replied back to this message especially when a European forum member decides to post, especially those who have been bad mouthing EE, Flip Flops (hate the term) etc…
Dolph:
Why THE F… every thread has to come down how bad EE are, how we steal your jobs, how we are alcoholics. Eastern Europe is made up from dozens of countries every one with different culture,habits and understanding of life.
What happen on M1 is tragic, sad and criminal event, the guilty party should be prosecuted with the full extend of the law. RIP to all people regardless of country of origin.
And before talking about drink driving look in the mirror, every week British citizens are arrested driving drunk(cars/SUV’s) in Bulgaria, yes not trucks but never the less drunk. When I mention this last year, many of you said, well thats normal few pints from the pub, driving few miles home
I see no one has replied back to this message especially when a European forum member decides to post, especially those who have been bad mouthing EE, Flip Flops (hate the term) etc…
Must be because we are all terrified of the backlash…
Dolph:
Why THE F… every thread has to come down how bad EE are, how we steal your jobs, how we are alcoholics. Eastern Europe is made up from dozens of countries every one with different culture,habits and understanding of life.
What happen on M1 is tragic, sad and criminal event, the guilty party should be prosecuted with the full extend of the law. RIP to all people regardless of country of origin.
And before talking about drink driving look in the mirror, every week British citizens are arrested driving drunk(cars/SUV’s) in Bulgaria, yes not trucks but never the less drunk. When I mention this last year, many of you said, well thats normal few pints from the pub, driving few miles home
I see no one has replied back to this message especially when a European forum member decides to post, especially those who have been bad mouthing EE, Flip Flops (hate the term) etc…
I’ll be honest, I really couldn’t give a monkeys about expats in Bulgaria having a few pints and driving home, on their own heads be it. What does concern me is the fact that someone from eastern europe decided to have a few drinks and then drive a 44t truck and then stop on the M1 for 12 minutes with no visible warning lights causing IMHO the deaths of 8 people, to me it doesn’t matter if it turns out that the driver of the fed ex truck pushed the mini bus under the back of the AIM truck, in my eyes the EE driver caused the accident due to the fact if he hadn’t been over the limit and stopped in the inside lane, the collision would have never occured
scottie0011:
What does concern me is the fact that someone from eastern europe decided to have a few drinks and then drive a 44t truck and then stop on the M1 for 12 minutes with no visible warning lights causing IMHO the deaths of 8 people, to me it doesn’t matter if it turns out that the driver of the fed ex truck pushed the mini bus under the back of the AIM truck, in my eyes the EE driver caused the accident due to the fact if he hadn’t been over the limit and stopped in the inside lane, the collision would have never occured
Agreed.
The Fed Ex driver’s involvement was the ‘accident’ aspect of the event.
Ok, possibly a bit of bad judgement on his part, but nevertheless a direct result of the irresponsible actions of the driver stopped in lane 1 with no hazards for apparentlly no reason.
The fact that he was over the limit and/or ■■■■■■■ just made the situation 10 times worse.
The Fed x driver reacted, and that’s when things went ■■■■ up.
Time will tell if he was distracted by outside influence…phone etc.
They will obviously just have to wait for the verdict of the enquiry.
Dolph:
Why THE F… every thread has to come down how bad EE are, how we steal your jobs, how we are alcoholics. Eastern Europe is made up from dozens of countries every one with different culture,habits and understanding of life.
What happen on M1 is tragic, sad and criminal event, the guilty party should be prosecuted with the full extend of the law. RIP to all people regardless of country of origin.
And before talking about drink driving look in the mirror, every week British citizens are arrested driving drunk(cars/SUV’s) in Bulgaria, yes not trucks but never the less drunk. When I mention this last year, many of you said, well thats normal few pints from the pub, driving few miles home
I see no one has replied back to this message especially when a European forum member decides to post, especially those who have been bad mouthing EE, Flip Flops (hate the term) etc…
I’ll be honest, I really couldn’t give a monkeys about expats in Bulgaria having a few pints and driving home, on their own heads be it. What does concern me is the fact that someone from eastern europe decided to have a few drinks and then drive a 44t truck and then stop on the M1 for 12 minutes with no visible warning lights causing IMHO the deaths of 8 people, to me it doesn’t matter if it turns out that the driver of the fed ex truck pushed the mini bus under the back of the AIM truck, in my eyes the EE driver caused the accident due to the fact if he hadn’t been over the limit and stopped in the inside lane, the collision would have never occured
And thats pretty much sums it up! Criminals come from all countries/religion/skin color etc. Just because this Polish driver is drunk driver doesnt mean all Eastern Europeans are like him(as suggested in this thread).
We have British murderers, pedophiles, dunk drivers etc. in Bulgaria but that will never lead me to conclusion about the British people in general. Or may be the “famous” British tourists, should I judge UK by the hordes of alcoholized youth we get
Stop commenting for EE as its one country is totally ridiculous.
Im not saying there is not criminals from countries from EE, plenty we have, all I want is for you to judge the individual by his/hers deeds,not the country of origin
Dolph:
…Stop commenting for EE as its one country is totally ridiculous…
To some folk it was though. Up until nearly 30 year ago, Eastern Europe was all under the thumb of the Russian Bear. Completely different culture and mind-set, etc.
I was stationed in (West) Germany when the wall came down and saw through regular visits to family in Spandau how Berlin went ■■■■ up short-sharp. My cousin doesn’t call them EE’s, she calls them EB’s…Eastie-Beasties.
Not looking for a bite here, just saying what some of my kin, and what I, subsequently observed.
As for the M1 tragedy itself, I’ve no comment as I wasn’t there, and I ain’t trawling through 26 pages of mostly (probable) pish.
We dont know if the driver was actually “drunk” though do we? Over the limit it seems, but there can’t be many of us who haven’t been driving over the LEGAL limit and it hasn’t affected our driving or judgement. A few years ago I worked with lads who ‘drank for England’ most nights of the week but they were always alert and did their work OK, different folk have vastly different alcohol tolerances but the law doesn’t make allowances for that.
windrush:
different folk have vastly different alcohol tolerances but the law doesn’t make allowances for that.
Careful, don’t be upsetting the purists and ne’er do wrong angels on here with facts mate ffs.
Nobody is disputing that driving with enough drink to ■■■■ up your judgement is wrong end of (see even I have to add a caveat to stop them jumping) but you are correct.
I know guys who have had a gutful and passed a breath test, I also know some who are actually tipsy after 2 pints, everybody is different.
Whether that justifies a zero tolerance just to catch the guys who can pass a test when ■■■■■■■ but penalise the responsible among us is a debatable point,… but will no doubt be clouded again by the purists.
windrush:
We dont know if the driver was actually “drunk” though do we? Over the limit it seems, but there can’t be many of us who haven’t been driving over the LEGAL limit and it hasn’t affected our driving or judgement. A few years ago I worked with lads who ‘drank for England’ most nights of the week but they were always alert and did their work OK, different folk have vastly different alcohol tolerances but the law doesn’t make allowances for that.
Pete.
You could apply a number of caveats to that premise though.
In that firstly historically any drinking culture was often seperated from the driving ones.In that truck drivers,car users and bikers would all be far more likely to be spending their leisure and break times in a transport cafe etc drinking tea or other dairy type stuff and never in the local boozer.IE contrary to the political correctness thing historically the drink drive issue often actually policed itself to an arguably greater degree,with less enforcement if any,than was introduced later.
As for the idea of anyone actually being incapable of driving properly over the limit of around 1.5-2 pints I don’t really buy that either.To the point where I’d suggest it’s silly to criminalise an otherwise innocent driver just for being a ‘bit’ over the arbitrary drink drive limit.
Having said that we do have one of the most reasonable drink driving limits in Europe including now Scotland and it isn’t that difficult for anyone to stay within it.On that note it’s no good whingeing if that’s then added as an aggravating factor to being found stopped in lane 1 of a motorway for no good reason resulting in a fatal pile up or being the blameworthy contributor to any RTA.
But by the same yardstick maybe tough justice if there was good reason for the stoppage in a live lane.
I think its true to say we are all quite bad judges of our abilities. Ask about, and Everyone thinks they are above average drivers. And we know drinking clouds judgement. Having a drink, and then trying to be a good judge of ones own ability to drive, is not gonna work out well. If youre saying the law tries to play it on the safe side, well, yes, it is. Realistically how else would you work it? It wouldnt work with gauging reaction times or owt would it? Its not just slow reactions that cause many accidents, so much as over confidence, taking a cavalier "itll be OK" attitude, and lack of patience. Someone whose judgement is impaired enough to think theyre OK to drive, when theyre not, is a liability. We can`t give them the benefit of having good judgement in their abilities.
I can remember hearing “I drive better after a glass or two” in the past. Seems to me the speakers believed it, but maybe they were bad drivers, without the ability to look critically at themselves, and after a drink they were even less self critical.
Franglais:
I think its true to say we are all quite bad judges of our abilities. Ask about, and Everyone thinks they are above average drivers. And we know drinking clouds judgement. Having a drink, and then trying to be a good judge of ones own ability to drive, is not gonna work out well. If youre saying the law tries to play it on the safe side, well, yes, it is. Realistically how else would you work it? It wouldnt work with gauging reaction times or owt would it? Its not just slow reactions that cause many accidents, so much as over confidence, taking a cavalier "itll be OK" attitude, and lack of patience. Someone whose judgement is impaired enough to think theyre OK to drive, when theyre not, is a liability. We can`t give them the benefit of having good judgement in their abilities.
I can remember hearing “I drive better after a glass or two” in the past. Seems to me the speakers believed it, but maybe they were bad drivers, without the ability to look critically at themselves, and after a drink they were even less self critical.
Anyone remember Bill Werbenuik the Canadian professional snooker player? He had some medical condition such that he always had to drink several pints of lager before and during playing a match to steady a tremor. (I don’t think he drove home after playing, though.)
