corij:
dont take what is in the papers as gospel. Especially when theres a quick cut n dried verdict. watch closely the news and think it through
im not sure who is in charge of telling the press what to print/or not to print but somebody high up is -i say as iv followed news and a lot is carefully crafted . only a few days ago there was a vid on youtube of a guy smashing up a tescos windows in lancashire because they wouldnt serve him alcohol. this was not the case [theres a different back story] but thats what the press wrote . it fits -but not true
that could well be the case with this awful crash, " drunk at the wheel " fits nicely doesnt it . the only ones who will know the real truth are the drivers /coppers
I’m sure it’s pretty much ‘cut n dry’ with matters such as drink driving. There is a legal limit and the police work to those specifics. They would not charge him with being over the limit - if it was not backed up with science, otherwise he would be ‘not guilty’. No points for wasting their own time etc…
I think most people know the press use their wording in a stirring manner.
he will have blown a positive breath sample at the accident scene, he will have then been taken too a custody suite where he will have been givin the choice of two more breath samples on a bigger machine where the lesser result of the two is taken or he could opt for blood sample by a police doctor or simply refuse to co operate, i dont think would be made up to suit the story.
heres 2 reasons why i doubt what i read these days. when princess diana died straight away it was apparent the driver was drunk. as part of the evidence it was said the mercs speedo jammed at 100mph proving he was speeding .well i happen to know that mercs speedos were electrical not mechanical and had been for a few years prior. an electrical speedo will drop to zero after a crash.
the 2nd was by pure chance i had a conver with rolf harris neighbours of 25yrs, she is/was one of the 3 degrees . she told me it was all a set up his trial etc but she would not /could not tell me more. iv never forgotten that
Winseer:
There have been fatal collisions on the A5 in the Hinkley Bottom/Crick area Laybys where a badly lit and badly parked artic got rear-ended whilst stationary by another truck driving too fast on that stretch of road.
Of the two truckers involved in this dreadful RTC, one driver has been named as Dave Wagstaff already. Age 53. He’s the sober one.
The other driver has been named as Ryszard Masierak age 31, who tested over the alcohol limit.
It wasn’t made clear from the article which driver drove which truck - but I would imagine that Dave Wagstaff being of Stoke (likely the origin of the fedex truck) puts him firmly in that cab.
Ryszard Masierak is announced as being from Worcestershire.
Dave Wagstaff has been charged with Eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous Driving.
Ryszard Masierak has also been charged with eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous driving, eight counts of causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence, and four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
Juddian:
Am i the only one who breathed a slight sigh of relief when learning of the name of the alleged over the limit driver, and another slight sigh of relief now that he is confirmed from another country.
No, i’m not finger pointing or suggesting we natives are any better or worse drivers or people, it’s purely an admission that i was slightly relieved, and i’m not sure how i feel about myself over that either.
Very interesting, and honest post, Juddian.
You feel the same as most of us do Juddian. Totally ■■■■■■ off with this ridiculous wave of ■■■■■■ up crap EE drivers we have had over the last decade. Films on laptops, Romanian cab dances, phones welded to ears, cans of Tyskie lager and bottles of vodka everywhere, duplicate cards, magnets, complete disregard for this country and it’s inhabitants.
Only last week I was working for Whistl, and a Polish subbie got kicked off site when it came to light he was working 6 days EVERY WEEK (The same one that woke me up in the yard when he rammed the jaws of his fifth wheel into the loaded trailer he was trying to hook up to next to me… Knobhead )
Funny that. When I started driving here in 1993, there was no shortage of drivers getting ■■■■■■■■ on a night out, and getting up and going from 0300 onwards. And most (all?) of those were Welsh or English.
I do think that the East Europeans have less of a cultural barrier with regards to drinking during the (working) day. But the French certainly used to have no problem with a carafe of wine with their lunch, and I know from my own experience that the consumption of beer was not uncommon in the workplace in the Netherlands untill the late 80’s…
Juddian:
Am i the only one who breathed a slight sigh of relief when learning of the name of the alleged over the limit driver, and another slight sigh of relief now that he is confirmed from another country.
No, i’m not finger pointing or suggesting we natives are any better or worse drivers or people, it’s purely an admission that i was slightly relieved, and i’m not sure how i feel about myself over that either.
No, you aren’t the only one!
Yet another Eastern European appears to be under the impression they can come across to our “once great” Island and act as they do in their third world, backward [zb]!
And that’s the point Mule. We have enough absolute turd truck drivers of our own. We have managed to import even more crap into wagons driver seats
Has anyone else seen loads of EE’s parking on motorway hard shoulders? Course you have, but because our police are too busy spying on women sunbathing in their own gardens from the helicopter, we don’t have the resources to simply get a few useless coppers to drive along the motorway fining them.
Which would actually raise revenue in itself and more importantly remove stationary wagons off the [zb]ing hard shoulder so folk don’t crash into them.
Captain Caveman 76:
If he thinks he’ll get a custodial sentence, he can request to be remanded into custody. Any time spent on remand is taken off his sentence as he’s already served it. Since time spent on remand is easier, it’s a very common option.
Yes, I have the benefit of having a lawyer in the family… We discuss law (not specific to her clients) on a regular basis… especially since she is about to begin her masters…
It’s as you say… although there’s other factors too… not exhaustively: When it is obvious the accused is ‘Guilty’ not going to plead ‘Not Guilty’, the brief will likely understand all of the parameters of this persons immediate specifics. It’s very likely he’s broken - very emotional, feeling the weight of the world etc. In these circumstances, the Brief is likely to advise not applying for bail.
Being in custody means he can be closely monitored. Beyond that, he’s… as you have said, accepted his sentence will be custodial and by not applying for bail, sends a signal to the court that he accepts responsibility for his crime. The latter may in some small way reduce the sentence imposed. Although in this instance… just my own guess… we could be looking at a deterrent example being set as a consideration of the sentence.
Not quite what I meant. If he knows he’s going to get, for example, ten years, he knows he’ll be out in five with the remainder on licence. If he volunteers to spend a year on remand awaiting trial, hes already served a year of sentence and will be out in 4. Time on remand is a lot easier than time doing a sentence.
In my experience, it’s more to do with playing the system than showing remorse, obviously I’m not saying that’s the case here.
Winseer:
There have been fatal collisions on the A5 in the Hinkley Bottom/Crick area Laybys where a badly lit and badly parked artic got rear-ended whilst stationary by another truck driving too fast on that stretch of road.
Of the two truckers involved in this dreadful RTC, one driver has been named as Dave Wagstaff already. Age 53. He’s the sober one.
The other driver has been named as Ryszard Masierak age 31, who tested over the alcohol limit.
It wasn’t made clear from the article which driver drove which truck - but I would imagine that Dave Wagstaff being of Stoke (likely the origin of the fedex truck) puts him firmly in that cab.
Ryszard Masierak is announced as being from Worcestershire.
Dave Wagstaff has been charged with Eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous Driving.
Ryszard Masierak has also been charged with eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous driving, eight counts of causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence, and four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
I was hoping he would eventually reach a point to his post, never happened.
FFS people - if all you can think about on a topic like this is to sling every casual critique at me like so many loony left do on a daily basis - then I condemn you all for losing the plot yourselves. It would be more on-topic for people to find some driver they know who is in the habit of drinking before a shift, to get them to desist in future. Be critical of those who you normally leave alone, because they love the beautiful game, or live up your street or whatever. It’s not me who needs to “make some friends” when I’m not looking for any - it’s you lot that need to lose a few friends - when you know they break the law with impunity, but have been lucky enough to get away with it so far. I’m teetotal on days when I’m working. I’d like to push that as being the way for all us pro drivers to go. A few of us know that “When you save a life - you save the world”. What do you do when you could save a life, but can’t be arsed to ruin a friendship to do that though?
Winseer:
There have been fatal collisions on the A5 in the Hinkley Bottom/Crick area Laybys where a badly lit and badly parked artic got rear-ended whilst stationary by another truck driving too fast on that stretch of road.
Of the two truckers involved in this dreadful RTC, one driver has been named as Dave Wagstaff already. Age 53. He’s the sober one.
The other driver has been named as Ryszard Masierak age 31, who tested over the alcohol limit.
It wasn’t made clear from the article which driver drove which truck - but I would imagine that Dave Wagstaff being of Stoke (likely the origin of the fedex truck) puts him firmly in that cab.
Ryszard Masierak is announced as being from Worcestershire.
Dave Wagstaff has been charged with Eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous Driving.
Ryszard Masierak has also been charged with eight counts of Causing Death by Dangerous driving, eight counts of causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence, and four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
I was hoping he would eventually reach a point to his post, never happened.
FFS people - if all you can think about on a topic like this is to sling every casual critique at me like so many loony left do on a daily basis - then I condemn you all for losing the plot yourselves. It would be more on-topic for people to find some driver they know who is in the habit of drinking before a shift, to get them to desist in future. Be critical of those who you normally leave alone, because they love the beautiful game, or live up your street or whatever. It’s not me who needs to “make some friends” when I’m not looking for any - it’s you lot that need to lose a few friends - when you know they break the law with impunity, but have been lucky enough to get away with it so far. I’m teetotal on days when I’m working. I’d like to push that as being the way for all us pro drivers to go. A few of us know that “When you save a life - you save the world”. What do you do when you could save a life, but can’t be arsed to ruin a friendship to do that though?
TiredAndEmotional:
I don’t think this has come up yet but does anyone know if either of these firms use onboard cameras?
I think aim do, don’t know about fed-x, but being a large company using different drivers day in day out, would think they might, might be somebody with a definitive answer.
biggriffin:
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
No. It’s time this malarkey was consigned to history. 12 hour days is still 50% more than the average worker does. 15 has been extracting the urine for far too long.
Exactly…
Most people work about 8 hours aday with 16 hours off…
So how is it we have to do 15 hours on 9 hours off…
biggriffin:
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
No. It’s time this malarkey was consigned to history. 12 hour days is still 50% more than the average worker does. 15 has been extracting the urine for far too long.
Exactly…
Most people work about 8 hours aday with 16 hours off…
So how is it we have to do 15 hours on 9 hours off…
But you don’t have to work 15 hours a day, that’s a choice you made when taking the job, the hours worked in this industry are hardly a secret. I agree it’s far too many hours but we all have a choice whether we do it or find something else.
Winseer:
FFS people - if all you can think about on a topic like this is to sling every casual critique at me like so many loony left do on a daily basis - then I condemn you all for losing the plot yourselves. It would be more on-topic for people to find some driver they know who is in the habit of drinking before a shift, to get them to desist in future. Be critical of those who you normally leave alone, because they love the beautiful game, or live up your street or whatever. It’s not me who needs to “make some friends” when I’m not looking for any - it’s you lot that need to lose a few friends - when you know they break the law with impunity, but have been lucky enough to get away with it so far. I’m teetotal on days when I’m working. I’d like to push that as being the way for all us pro drivers to go. A few of us know that “When you save a life - you save the world”. What do you do when you could save a life, but can’t be arsed to ruin a friendship to do that though?
biggriffin:
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
No. It’s time this malarkey was consigned to history. 12 hour days is still 50% more than the average worker does. 15 has been extracting the urine for far too long.
Exactly…
Most people work about 8 hours aday with 16 hours off…
So how is it we have to do 15 hours on 9 hours off…
But you don’t have to work 15 hours a day, that’s a choice you made when taking the job, the hours worked in this industry are hardly a secret. I agree it’s far too many hours but we all have a choice whether we do it , WHETHER WE DON’T DO IT, or find something else.
FTFY, you forgot the other choice, if you don’t want to do 15 hours as a routine, then don’t.
I do it when I want to.
Captain Caveman 76:
If he thinks he’ll get a custodial sentence, he can request to be remanded into custody. Any time spent on remand is taken off his sentence as he’s already served it. Since time spent on remand is easier, it’s a very common option.
Yes, I have the benefit of having a lawyer in the family… We discuss law (not specific to her clients) on a regular basis… especially since she is about to begin her masters…
It’s as you say… although there’s other factors too… not exhaustively: When it is obvious the accused is ‘Guilty’ not going to plead ‘Not Guilty’, the brief will likely understand all of the parameters of this persons immediate specifics. It’s very likely he’s broken - very emotional, feeling the weight of the world etc. In these circumstances, the Brief is likely to advise not applying for bail.
Being in custody means he can be closely monitored. Beyond that, he’s… as you have said, accepted his sentence will be custodial and by not applying for bail, sends a signal to the court that he accepts responsibility for his crime. The latter may in some small way reduce the sentence imposed. Although in this instance… just my own guess… we could be looking at a deterrent example being set as a consideration of the sentence.
Not quite what I meant. If he knows he’s going to get, for example, ten years, he knows he’ll be out in five with the remainder on licence. If he volunteers to spend a year on remand awaiting trial, hes already served a year of sentence and will be out in 4. Time on remand is a lot easier than time doing a sentence.
In my experience, it’s more to do with playing the system than showing remorse, obviously I’m not saying that’s the case here.
Yes, I think I got your point… there are other factors though - as mentioned. ‘Playing the system’ is more the way of the professional criminal. Very unlikely the home ground of the driver/s in this specific etc.
wrighty1:
But you don’t have to work 15 hours a day, that’s a choice you made when taking the job, the hours worked in this industry are hardly a secret. I agree it’s far too many hours but we all have a choice whether we do it or find something else.
Let’s talk reality here. It isn’t always as clear a choice as you make out. There are many drivers being pressurised into excess working hours. Fact. It’s time the regs were changed to prevent this to give drivers protection under the law.
biggriffin:
The easiest way and simplest way to do drivers hours is 12hrs on 12hrs off. No reduce rest allowed, keep the 15hr spread but still 12hrs off, don’t change weekly rest times,
No. It’s time this malarkey was consigned to history. 12 hour days is still 50% more than the average worker does. 15 has been extracting the urine for far too long.
Exactly…
Most people work about 8 hours aday with 16 hours off…
So how is it we have to do 15 hours on 9 hours off…
But you don’t have to work 15 hours a day, that’s a choice you made when taking the job, the hours worked in this industry are hardly a secret. I agree it’s far too many hours but we all have a choice whether we do it or find something else.
The thing being if we resorted to the hours we used to have, ie 12.5 hour spreadover, before we harmonised with EU hours , then it would be a level playing field in the UK, and if everyone could only work 12 hours then the pay would have to level off at something like the same as it currently is for 15, cos otherwise the drivers will jack in transport altogether…it would also mean more EE drivers going back home where they can continue to kill themselves with 15 hour days, hence creating a shortage of drivers and those good companies would then cherry pick the best by tempting them in with decent terms…putting good drivers back on a premium rate and starving the agencies into bankruptcy as a juicy bonus.
It would also level the playing field for the current good companies in this country who don’t expect their drivers to work themselves, and others, to death, yet have to compete with the endurance event mob in both wages and rates who think 15 with 9 off is how it should be all the time.
not sure how quickly the accident happened but if the bus had broken down surely the minibus driver had a duty of care by getting his passengers away from the vehicle,i realise the poor guy paid for it with his life but if it happened say 10 min after the vehicle broke down he would have had time to get everyone off thereby saving his life as well as theirs,i know hindsight is a wonderful thing but we are allways being told by police/highways to get out the vehicle and stand away from it in a safe place.
wrighty1:
But you don’t have to work 15 hours a day, that’s a choice you made when taking the job, the hours worked in this industry are hardly a secret. I agree it’s far too many hours but we all have a choice whether we do it or find something else.
Let’s talk reality here. It isn’t always as clear a choice as you make out. There are many drivers being pressurised into excess working hours. Fact. It’s time the regs were changed to prevent this to give drivers protection under the law.
Yip, before setting up on my own I got ■■■■■■ off with planners planning me 15 hour days and 9 hours off. It’s normal in a lot of firms.
If drivers sat down and did the maths on this one, they’d soon realise they would be better off in every way - being limited to 12 hours
There would be more need for drivers, means more competition by the hauliers - resulting in higher wages for less hours.
I made the decision if I’m gonna do the hours - it isn’t gonna be for some other ****.
I see in the DM news report that the driver of the minibus slept at his cousin’s house the evening before - going to bed at 10pm and up again at 1am. If either of the lorry drivers had done that, it would itself be grounds for prosecution. There is no mention of how he spent the day before, but I expect that he was working, although maybe not driving.
(The same one that woke me up in the yard when he rammed the jaws of his fifth wheel into the loaded trailer he was trying to hook up to next to me… Knobhead )
It would be more on-topic for people to find some driver they know who is in the habit of drinking before a shift, to get them to desist in future. Be critical of those who you normally leave alone, because they love the beautiful game, or live up your street or whatever. It’s not me who needs to “make some friends” when I’m not looking for any - it’s you lot that need to lose a few friends - when you know they break the law with impunity, but have been lucky enough to get away with it so far. I’m teetotal on days when I’m working. I’d like to push that as being the way for all us pro drivers to go. A few of us know that “When you save a life - you save the world”. What do you do when you could save a life, but can’t be arsed to ruin a friendship to do that though? 
